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Author: [MLB Betting] Topic: Miguel Cabrera is the MVP
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#51
Posted: 10/4/2012 4:27:50 PM

No argument that trout is an  amazing player,  but can you  describe the many  ways that he impacted  the  game this year?

 

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#52
Posted: 10/4/2012 4:36:25 PM
Offensively, defensively, and baserunning.  While Cabrera impacts the game only offensively.  And no one bring up some intangible bullshit like, BUT CABRERA IS A GOOD CLUBHOUSE GUY.  
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#53
Posted: 10/4/2012 4:39:44 PM
Trout is elite in the 3 main aspects of the game, while Cabrera is elite in offense he's below average in defense and god awful in baserunning.
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#54
Posted: 10/4/2012 6:10:29 PM
Trizmik, we can fight the good fight... we both know Trout deserves it more.

But people can't get past the Triple Crown thing. It's going to be a damn shame when as you said, one of the best all around seasons in baseball history isn't going to be properly recognized with the rightful title of AL MVP
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#55
Posted: 10/5/2012 9:51:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Tone10:

Trizmik, we can fight the good fight... we both know Trout deserves it more.

But people can't get past the Triple Crown thing. It's going to be a damn shame when as you said, one of the best all around seasons in baseball history isn't going to be properly recognized with the rightful title of AL MVP
And ignoring a Triple Crown winner would be right?  If Trout ever has a year like this again then we can talk about it. 
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#56
Posted: 10/5/2012 10:23:47 PM
lol u guys actually arguing over a rookie and a guy with once in a few decade accomplishment?
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#57
Posted: 10/5/2012 10:33:10 PM
Last year Ben Zobrist had the highest WAR.  So there's that.
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#58
Posted: 10/5/2012 10:34:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DTher85:

This is why I detest so many fellow Tigers fans. Tiger fans typically have a very low baseball IQ which is not really their fault considering the team has been awful for most of their life. Trout impacts the game on so many levels whereas Cabrera only impacts the game when he is hitting. The argument "Tigers made the playoffs and Angels didn't" is irrelevant since, THE ANGELS HAVE A BETTER RECORD THAN THE TIGERS! You're punishing a guy who plays in a tougher division? Trout plays in arguably the toughest division whereas Miggy plays in the weakest. The Tigers didn't even have one of the 6 best records in the AL. Also, don't the Angels have the best record in the AL since Trout was brought up? Lets also point out the pitching staffs in each division, it's not even close, the AL West is superior in that category. The fielding% stat like someone pointed out is irrelevant too, no one in their mind would pick Cabrera as the 3rd best fielding 3B, use your head. He is acceptable at best.

If I were starting a team and Cabrera was 21 like Trout, I would pick Trout simply because he is the more complete player and affects the game on so many levels. I'm not entirely certain how strong his arm is, but he could be the closest thing to being the true definition of a "5 tool player"

To say  this is an easy call is absurd and ignorant. I would be perfectly fine if Miggy or Trout won since both are very deserving.

And what team are you a fan of?
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#59
Posted: 10/5/2012 10:36:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TriZMiK:


Lol are we being serious with this garbage?  Since when did the MVP become the MVP of September?  

Trout:  30 HRs, 49 SBs, 129 runs, .324 AVG, .397 OBP, .561 SLG, wOBA .421, wRC+ 174

Cabrera: 44 HRs, 109 runs, .330 AVG, .393 OBP, .605 SLG, wOBA .417, 167 wRC+

Trout has an advantage offensively.  But, do we dare bring up the HUGE gap defensively and in baserunning?  The gap is bigger than the world is wide.  Or did we all forget there is more to the game of baseball than RBIs?  Lol.  This garbage isn't even close, it's sad that people even try to argue.

A valuable player produces the most when it matters the most.  When a players stats decline so greatly during the most important month of the season, it hurts his value to the team.  Cannot argue that.
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#60
Posted: 10/5/2012 10:38:04 PM
Trout had 41 more strikeouts as well.  FYI
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#61
Posted: 10/5/2012 10:59:59 PM

WAR

Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is an attempt by the sabermetric baseball community to summarize a player’s total contributions to their team in one statistic. WAR basically looks at a player and asks the question, “If this player got injured and their team had to replace them with a minor leaguer or someone from their bench, how much value would the team be losing?” This value is expressed in a wins format, so we could say that Player X is worth +6.3 wins to their team while Player Y is only worth +3.5 wins.


Miguel Cabrera - 7.2

Mike Trout - 10.4



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#62
Posted: 10/5/2012 11:11:25 PM
you can't use RBI as a real stat because if you slotted trout in the 3 hole on the yankees he would of had 150 RBI's.

the triple crown argument for the MVP is a flaw, similar to the one where pitchers with the most wins should win the cy young when the pitcher 99% of the time has no control on how many runs his team scores.

i don't have a problem with miggy winning the MVP because he had  a great season also but to say miggy was the better player vs trout this season is wrong. trout is a great (for this season only) 5 tool player where miggy is nothing more then a great hitter.
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#63
Posted: 10/5/2012 11:49:34 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DanTos8715:

Last year Ben Zobrist had the highest WAR.  So there's that.


Did he??? Did he reallllllly???

Ellsbury: 9.4
Bautista: 8.3
Pedroia: 8.0
Kinsler: 7.5
Cabrera: 7.2
Granderson: 7.1
Gordon: 6.9
ZOBRIST: 6.6
..............................................
So there's that.
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#64
Posted: 10/5/2012 11:50:12 PM
CLOWN!
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#65
Posted: 10/6/2012 10:24:01 AM
NUTHIN ?
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#66
Posted: 10/6/2012 10:30:16 AM
Funny how the clowns like to use selective stats to support the fish and try to diminish what the first triple crown winner in over 35 years accomplished.  Cabrera wins the MVP as he should and it won't even be close.
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#67
Posted: 10/6/2012 11:13:23 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by nick526:

CLOWN!


http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2011-batting-leaders.shtml

Check that, then go put your head in the toilet and flush.  
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#68
Posted: 10/6/2012 11:30:30 AM

Just because a player breaks a record, doesnt mean he is the MVP.  Winning the triple crown means you were the best hitter in the league, thats it!

First, I dont get where people talk about his good fielding %.  On ESPN, where I look, he has the 4th LOWEST fielding % in the AL this year for 3rd baseman.  And, that doesnt include the ack of range he has compared to every other 3rd baseman.  If its not hit right at him, he wont get to it. 

Second, it is amazing how people compare the RBIS.  Trout played less game.  Trout lead-offs and bats behind 7-8-9 hitters and not 1-2 hitters.  Trout played in a much more pitcher friendly park.  Only 1 other leadoff hitter in the MLB was within 20 RBIS of Trout this year and that was Ian Kinsler.  And once again, doing all of this playing less games.

If you take Trouts numbers and put them into a full season, he is right at Cabrera in every triple crown number. 

Then, you take into account the SB.  Trout had 49.  Plus, all the stress he puts on pitchers and defense when he is on the bases. 

His defense is next.  How many homerun robbing clips on ESPN???  All the runs he saves playing center field. 

When Trout came up, the Angels were a dead team.  He completely turned that team around and had them in the playoff picture. 

Yes, the Tigers made it and the Angels didnt, but the Angels had more wins and played in an awful AL Central. 

Cabrera is/was hands down the best hitter in baseball this year and the past few years.  But, just because you lead in average, hrs and rbis, doesnt mean you are an MVP.  It means you are an amazing hitter

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#69
Posted: 10/7/2012 11:12:33 AM
Not the fault of Cabrera, fish-face didn't play more.  Ka-boom did something that hadn't been done since Yaz did it in `67.  His impact on each game is felt by the opposition.  He's not an all offensive player as you're claming - it's beenpointed out in this thread his ability.  Learn to appreciate something you haven't seen for several decades and recognize what his accomplishment means and means for the game.  Miggy gets the award, learn to love it because he's the best thing going!
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#70
Posted: 10/7/2012 11:26:39 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Tone10:

It's laughable that people think Cabrera should win it over Trout.

I don't care if he wins the Triple Crown... the Triple Crown doesn't take into account walks, it doesn't differentiate doubles or triples from singles, it doesn't take into account skill on the basepaths, and most of all it doesn't factor in defense (of which Trout is upper-echolon while Cabrera is simply below-average).

Taking EVERYTHING into account (not just hitting), it's clear Trout has been the better player and more valuable to his team.

Based on the slash line of AVG/OBP/SLG, statistically speaking, this is Cabrera's WORST year between from 2010 - 2012

2010: .328/.422/.620 (1.042 OPS)

2011: .344/.448/.586 (1.033 OPS)

2012: .325/.390/.601 (.991 OPS)

If Cabrera didn't win the MVP those years, why should he win it this year? Just because he might win the "Triple Crown" because it just so happened nobody has hit more than 45 HR's or has an average above .325?



MVP MEANS WHOS MORE IMPORTANT TO THE TEAM....

WITHOUT CABBY WHERE WOULD THE TIGERS BE NOT EVEN IN DA PLAYOFFS?

WITH OR WITHOUT TROUT THE ANGELS ARE IN THE SAME PLACE....ENUF SAID....
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#71
Posted: 10/7/2012 11:40:14 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Osirus13:

Idiots, neither one is "laughable" over the other. They have both had amazing years. Your acting like one is way better than the other. I give it to Cabrera mainly cuz the tigers are in although angels do have better record. Just got off to a slower start (without trout)
The Reason Detroit is in playoffs and angels arent is because of one thing a Easier schedule and thats it/Lets See how Detroit does playing 18 games a year against Oakland ,and Texas instead of KC Minny,and Cleveland Trout 30 hrs 80 rbis 125 runs scored 320 avg 49 steals never been done before in Major league history runs the basses better and is  alot better on defense IF Cabrera wins the MVP its a travesty period
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#72
Posted: 10/7/2012 11:48:28 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by For_The_Books:



MVP MEANS WHOS MORE IMPORTANT TO THE TEAM....

WITHOUT CABBY WHERE WOULD THE TIGERS BE NOT EVEN IN DA PLAYOFFS?

WITH OR WITHOUT TROUT THE ANGELS ARE IN THE SAME PLACE....ENUF SAID....
Without Trout the Angels were one of the most pitiful teams in baseball he singlehandily turned there season around,if he had been there in April im thinking they make the playoffs/and did Cabreara really win the triple crown i say no Buster Posey hit for a higher average
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#73
Posted: 10/7/2012 11:50:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by PureButta:

And ignoring a Triple Crown winner would be right?  If Trout ever has a year like this again then we can talk about it. 
Triple Crown winners have not won MVP,s before by the way at least 2 times
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#74
Posted: 10/7/2012 12:24:28 PM

The whole which team made the playoffs debate is a joke.  Tigers played in an AWFUL division playing KC, Minn and Clev...while the Angels were behind Oak and Tex...

People have won the triple crown in baseball before, this record is not new

What Trout did this year, the numbers he put up....30 hrs 80 rbis 125 runs scored 320 avg 49 steals...has NEVER been done before in Major league history

Trout MVP

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#75
Posted: 10/7/2012 12:26:38 PM
The fact that people are even arguing this is hilarious. MIGGY for MVP and it's not even close.
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