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Author: [Politics] Topic: Right back to the big fat bonuses on wallstreet
KOAJ send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#26
Posted: 1/22/2011 5:50:39 PM
my post is not just relegated to the banksters...throw in Big Labor (UAW), GE, and anyone else who is bankrupt if not for the forced generosity of the american taxpayer
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#27
Posted: 1/22/2011 5:58:29 PM
I dont like the "two" choices..either do nothing or destroy the economy and start over, it is not reasonable and not the best solution for the most people.

Sorry that does not jive with the silver/gold group..the currency fold means those fellas make money, which is quite similar to what we are faulting the banks and the FED for.

Ive read plenty of "fiat currency" discussion and it is quite obvious where these groups lie in their investments and how they will benefit from their surface altruism towards what "should" happen.


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#28
Posted: 1/22/2011 6:26:09 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by steveshane67:

a few questions

1) do those companies owe the govt any money (ie have they paid back the bailout)

2) what business is of yours what a private company does with its money?

and if those simple questions arent enough

3) if morgan stanley and citi cant pay market wages for execs, how do you expect them to recruit good talent and be a profitable company?


1) Yes, Morgan Stanley paid back their 61 billion and Citi paid back their 40+ billion.

2) You're kidding, right.  I mean, you're not serious about that statement, are you?

3) Yea, I wonder how non-profits are able to attract top CEO talent?  And let's be careful when using the word "talent" for guys who lay people off.  Yea, that sure takes talent.
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#29
Posted: 1/22/2011 7:22:20 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

Well lets just state the obvious..

These firms are around due to the taxpayer, does the average taxpayer get paid this kind of compensation? There is reason to be bothered, we fronted their existence and less than two years later they are rolling out the mega bonuses again.

One other tiny point..these "profits" are due to one thing and only one thing..these firms are borrowing money from the UST and the FED at pretty much zero interest, buying federal bonds/notes/bills, leveraged and earning their "profits" by getting fees for participating in these auctions and getting leveraged interest from the government, and they are profiting off leveraged gambling in commodities and futures trading.

If you look closely at the earnings releases, the "profits" are from "fixed income" trading..they arent lending, they are still bleeding from the leverage they still carry, litigation is ongoing and coming down the road.

These firms exist due to the government, they are making profits because of the FED and the government, they are giving monster bonuses due to these two facts, so there is good reason for someone to be bothered by these bonuses being given.

 

exactly

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#30
Posted: 1/22/2011 8:37:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Anent:



1) Yes, Morgan Stanley paid back their 61 billion and Citi paid back their 40+ billion.

2) You're kidding, right.  I mean, you're not serious about that statement, are you?

3) Yea, I wonder how non-profits are able to attract top CEO talent?  And let's be careful when using the word "talent" for guys who lay people off.  Yea, that sure takes talent.


100% dead serious.  what business (unless you are a shareholder...) is it what a private company does with its money?

and as an aside, surely these high bonuses fly in the face of walls theory that corporations only care about profits at the expense of everything and anything.  i mean more bonuses means less profits.  just saying.
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#31
Posted: 1/22/2011 9:10:21 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by steveshane67:



100% dead serious.  what business (unless you are a shareholder...) is it what a private company does with its money?

and as an aside, surely these high bonuses fly in the face of walls theory that corporations only care about profits at the expense of everything and anything.  i mean more bonuses means less profits.  just saying.


You are joking here right? Trying so hard to disprove any point I make that you create a thread just for me, keep making incorrect comments only intended on disproving me..at some point you might want to either stop reading what I say, or debate in a way that is not offensive..making call out threads and being combative is a sure way of not lasting long here, or having enjoyable debates.

Do yourself a favor..rethink that last reply, it is making it too easy. Did you just say that giving large bonuses to EXECUTIVES flies in the face of my theory regarding excessive profits? Did you just say that?

Operating profits have to do with gross margins, the difference between revenues and COST of sales, executives can take bonuses all day and night and it wont effect the share price of the stock one bit, in fact most executives contracts are laden with escalators regarding correlating profits and bonuses.

Please tell me how you are discrediting my claim about operating profits by executives getting large bonuses? You are actually proving my point..excessive bonuses are given when profits exceed predetermined profit goals per employment contracts. So without excess profits, excessive bonuses usually dont exist.


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#32
Posted: 1/22/2011 11:57:42 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by Anent:



1) Yes, Morgan Stanley paid back their 61 billion and Citi paid back their 40+ billion.

2) You're kidding, right.  I mean, you're not serious about that statement, are you?

3) Yea, I wonder how non-profits are able to attract top CEO talent?  And let's be careful when using the word "talent" for guys who lay people off.  Yea, that sure takes talent.

You make no sense and would be better off splashing around in the kiddie pool

 

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#33
Posted: 1/23/2011 12:00:52 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by KOAJ:

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2011/01/20/more-icelandic-bankers-arrested/

until this happens in the US, nothing changes

if and when that does happen, it will be nothing short of a revolution

the people of iceland were asked / told to pay back 5b in bankster debt. they told the government and banksters to shove it up their fools. conversely, our government and banksters told us to give them 787 billion (that we know of) and we did it...

the icelandic example is the only hope for all of us. arrest the banksters, collapse the fiat currency system and start from scratch as free people

This sounds extreme, but I'm just not sure if maybe it isn't what we need

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#34
Posted: 1/23/2011 7:11:00 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002:

This sounds extreme, but I'm just not sure if maybe it isn't what we need



not extreme. the people told the banksters and pols they own, NO.

then they arrested them and prosecuted them for theft among other things. is that extreme? is it extreme to say that i'm pissed off about having 787b pilfered from the nations coffers (that we know of)

do you have a child? guess what, they owe 45k to the banksters
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#35
Posted: 1/23/2011 12:27:15 PM

look at that another company that increases ceo compensation.

up 50 million from last years money

These people on wallstreet are true scumbags.

Did they even bother to think maybe it would be better to slash some prices and help the people of this country who are struggling in this economy?  Nope, lets just make more profits and hand out bigger bonuses

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Viacom-CEO-2010-compensation-apf-282265226.html?x=0

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#36
Posted: 1/23/2011 12:31:42 PM
Did they even bother to think maybe it would be better to slash some prices and help the people of this country who are struggling in this economy?
------------
thats not why one is in business. a CEO's responsibility is to his shareholders and employees not random people

did viacom take government money? i dont think they did. lets leave them out
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#37
Posted: 1/23/2011 12:32:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:

look at that another company that increases ceo compensation.

up 50 million from last years money

These people on wallstreet are true scumbags.

Did they even bother to think maybe it would be better to slash some prices and help the people of this country who are struggling in this economy?  Nope, lets just make more profits and hand out bigger bonuses

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Viacom-CEO-2010-compensation-apf-282265226.html?x=0

NEW YORK (AP) -- Viacom Inc. CEO Philippe Dauman's compensation more than doubled in 2010 from the year before, according to an Associated Press analysis, mainly because of stock options and awards.

Dauman's overall pay package climbed to $84.5 million from $34 million, according to a review of securities filings made on Friday.

His base salary rose 5 percent to about $2.6 million from $2.5 million. He received a performance-based bonus of $11.3 million, down 10 percent from $12.5 million the year before. The value of perks such as jet travel and 401(k) contributions fell 42 percent to $141,000 from $243,000.

The biggest part of Dauman's compensation came in the form of stock options and awards. In fiscal 2010, they totaled $70.5 million, up from $18.7 million.

Dauman oversees a media empire that includes cable channels MTV, BET and Comedy Central along with the Paramount Pictures film studio. In the nine months ended in September -- the company recently switched its fiscal year to end Sept. 30. -- Viacom brought in revenue of $9.34 billion, up 1 percent from the same nine months a year earlier.

The company's net income during the same period climbed 23 percent to $1.18 billion from $954 million.

Executive Chairman Sumner Redstone, who controls Viacom and CBS Corp. though super-voting shares, saw his compensation slip about 11 percent to $15 million from $16.9 million.

He drew a base salary of $1.31 million, up 5 percent from $1.25 million. His performance-based bonus fell 10 percent to $5.6 million from $6.3 million, and the value of his perks fell 23 percent to $4,650 from $6,000.

The value of stock and option awards he received fell 13 percent to $8.1 million from $9.3 million.

The Associated Press formula is designed to isolate the value that the company's board placed on the executive's total compensation package during the last fiscal year. It includes salary, bonus, performance-related bonuses, perks, above-market returns on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock options and awards granted during the year.

The calculations don't include changes in the present value of pension benefits, and they sometimes differ from the totals companies list in the summary compensation table of proxy statements filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which reflect the size of the accounting charge taken for the executive's compensation in the previous fiscal year.

 

 Props to Philippe Dauman for a job well done

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#38
Posted: 1/24/2011 12:37:25 PM
holy cow, google gave their outgoing exec a $100 million bonus.  what scumbags!!!!!
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#39
Posted: 1/24/2011 12:48:30 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:



You are joking here right? Trying so hard to disprove any point I make that you create a thread just for me, keep making incorrect comments only intended on disproving me..at some point you might want to either stop reading what I say, or debate in a way that is not offensive..making call out threads and being combative is a sure way of not lasting long here, or having enjoyable debates.

Do yourself a favor..rethink that last reply, it is making it too easy. Did you just say that giving large bonuses to EXECUTIVES flies in the face of my theory regarding excessive profits? Did you just say that?

Operating profits have to do with gross margins, the difference between revenues and COST of sales, executives can take bonuses all day and night and it wont effect the share price of the stock one bit, in fact most executives contracts are laden with escalators regarding correlating profits and bonuses.

Please tell me how you are discrediting my claim about operating profits by executives getting large bonuses? You are actually proving my point..excessive bonuses are given when profits exceed predetermined profit goals per employment contracts. So without excess profits, excessive bonuses usually dont exist.




to the bolded part
yes, either the money becomes profit or gets paid to in bonuses.  unless the bonus money comes out of thin air, its either 1 or the other

to the red part
here you go again with your highfalutin diatribes again.  and since when are we talking about share prices, dont you get tired of creating this exceptions to your rules whenever you are proven wrong? you said that corporations will do anything and everything in the name of profits.

do you just make stuff up for the sake of making stuff up, are you really saying that if company makes $10 million, and then gives their ceo a $4 million bonus, that they do not have $6 million left?
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#40
Posted: 1/24/2011 4:27:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by steveshane67:

holy cow, google gave their outgoing exec a $100 million bonus.  what scumbags!!!!!


they are exempt...algore is a senior advisor

also, Google = NSA
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#41
Posted: 1/24/2011 9:14:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

Well lets just state the obvious..

These firms are around due to the taxpayer, does the average taxpayer get paid this kind of compensation? There is reason to be bothered, we fronted their existence and less than two years later they are rolling out the mega bonuses again.

One other tiny point..these "profits" are due to one thing and only one thing..these firms are borrowing money from the UST and the FED at pretty much zero interest, buying federal bonds/notes/bills, leveraged and earning their "profits" by getting fees for participating in these auctions and getting leveraged interest from the government, and they are profiting off leveraged gambling in commodities and futures trading.

If you look closely at the earnings releases, the "profits" are from "fixed income" trading..they arent lending, they are still bleeding from the leverage they still carry, litigation is ongoing and coming down the road.

These firms exist due to the government, they are making profits because of the FED and the government, they are giving monster bonuses due to these two facts, so there is good reason for someone to be bothered by these bonuses being given.

Totally agree.  Not sure why anyone would specifically defend any of these banking firms.
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#42
Posted: 1/24/2011 9:27:42 PM
steveshane,

To answer the ONE question you asked (while belittling and ignoring the real content, which is always nice)..

The employment contract is public knowledge, it is part of doing business..it is not a secret or last minute decision (unless there are provisions in the contract which might give the BOD the right to modify).

So yes, it has very little to do with the theory at all, the excess bonuses and salary are DUE to the excess profits, which is the underlying goal of management. It CONFIRMS the theory, if management succeeds in the objectives laid out in their contract, they CAN earn large bonuses, stock grants etc.

The issue of executive compensation is not related to operating goals, it supports the concept of excess..excessive profits, excessive management compensation, its all one big, lovely circle of excess.
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#43
Posted: 1/24/2011 9:31:51 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Wake2002:

You make no sense and would be better off splashing around in the kiddie pool



hmm, not sure what doesn't make sense.  You didn't say.  There are plenty of other ways to attract top notch CEO "talent" without feeding the gluttony.

In terms of whose business it is, sure, there's the law and then there are ethics.  So, let's say you invest in my company for a handsome little profit.  I turn around and spend the money I make from the money I help you make on, I don't know, killing babies.  Let's say that's what my business likes to do with it's profits - kill babies.  Now, of course you wouldn't be on board with that, but then again, what business is it of yours?  So, you'd probably never take the time to find out that your favorite investment is with a company that enjoys infanticide. 

Personally, I absolutely DO NOT invest in a company unless I do know what they're doing with their profits.
 


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#44
Posted: 1/26/2011 2:05:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

steveshane,

To answer the ONE question you asked (while belittling and ignoring the real content, which is always nice)..

The employment contract is public knowledge, it is part of doing business..it is not a secret or last minute decision (unless there are provisions in the contract which might give the BOD the right to modify).

So yes, it has very little to do with the theory at all, the excess bonuses and salary are DUE to the excess profits, which is the underlying goal of management. It CONFIRMS the theory, if management succeeds in the objectives laid out in their contract, they CAN earn large bonuses, stock grants etc.

The issue of executive compensation is not related to operating goals, it supports the concept of excess..excessive profits, excessive management compensation, its all one big, lovely circle of excess.


wall, i think ive finally figured you out.  you only believe the theoretical stuff and dont believe in their real world applications.

surely you heard of wall st bonuses during the economic collapse right?  i mean why did all those execs at all those firms and banks who collapsed get bonuses? surely you dont really believe they got bonuses bc of "excess profits".
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#45
Posted: 1/26/2011 3:48:46 PM
Wait, is that someone pissing on my head, or more trickle down theory I'm feeling wet from?  Someone get me an umbrella from all of this trickling!
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#46
Posted: 1/26/2011 4:29:51 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Anent:

Wait, is that someone pissing on my head, or more trickle down theory I'm feeling wet from?  Someone get me an umbrella from all of this trickling!


dont mistake crony capitalism and bailouts for trickle down economics
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