Good point, which begs the question to Don on how raising the minimum wage can lift someone into the middle class if they aren't even working 40 hours a week. The simple answer is raising the minimum wage does not bring anyone up to the middle class.
I do not understand this angle of the discussion. So an extra $2 an hour does not raise them into the "middle class status". So what? That is not an argument against a minimum wage raise. It will still help that individual.
Good point, which begs the question to Don on how raising the minimum wage can lift someone into the middle class if they aren't even working 40 hours a week. The simple answer is raising the minimum wage does not bring anyone up to the middle class.
I do not understand this angle of the discussion. So an extra $2 an hour does not raise them into the "middle class status". So what? That is not an argument against a minimum wage raise. It will still help that individual.
Why is she getting knocked up if she can't afford a child?
why is it your responsibility and DJ's responsibility and SarasotaSlims responsibility to pay for my grandchild?
if the pregnancy is due to rape and she doesn't want to have an abortion for religious beliefs...
I can't imagine she would want to keep a child in which case I have no problem with the government taking care of prenatal and medical cost during the pregnancy but once the child is born she no longer is on the government teat.
Villemure -- It is true that people should not have kids if they can not afford them. But once it happens what then? It is not that poor kids fault that his mother had sex. There has to be something in place to help that kid at least have some chance of getting by.
Why is she getting knocked up if she can't afford a child?
why is it your responsibility and DJ's responsibility and SarasotaSlims responsibility to pay for my grandchild?
if the pregnancy is due to rape and she doesn't want to have an abortion for religious beliefs...
I can't imagine she would want to keep a child in which case I have no problem with the government taking care of prenatal and medical cost during the pregnancy but once the child is born she no longer is on the government teat.
Villemure -- It is true that people should not have kids if they can not afford them. But once it happens what then? It is not that poor kids fault that his mother had sex. There has to be something in place to help that kid at least have some chance of getting by.
I do not understand this angle of the discussion. So an extra $2 an hour does not raise them into the "middle class status". So what? That is not an argument against a minimum wage raise. It will still help that individual.
Matt, it was a direct rejection of Don's claim that raising the minimum wage brings people up into the middle class. It has nothing to do with the fact that an extra $2 an hour will help those that get it. My comment was in regards to one of Don's blame Republicans bullet points.
I do not understand this angle of the discussion. So an extra $2 an hour does not raise them into the "middle class status". So what? That is not an argument against a minimum wage raise. It will still help that individual.
Matt, it was a direct rejection of Don's claim that raising the minimum wage brings people up into the middle class. It has nothing to do with the fact that an extra $2 an hour will help those that get it. My comment was in regards to one of Don's blame Republicans bullet points.
Villemure -- It is true that people should not have kids if they can not afford them. But once it happens what then? It is not that poor kids fault that his mother had sex. There has to be something in place to help that kid at least have some chance of getting by.
"Get by" to what means?
Agreed, the child is often left a victim
WIC & doctors care is great....
But a system that then gives mom $$$ doesn't ever guarantee the $$$ are spent ON THE CHILD.
If mom wants to take the handouts to feed & clothe the child she can.....but just as easily she can spend the money on booze & cigarettes.
There is no easy answer but I think some people use the system as a way of getting " a pay raise"
1 child = X
7 children = X +++++
But meanwhile the children suffer.
My solution ( which is radical )
TEMPORARY STERILIZATION if you are a ward of the state ( govt assistance )
If you are getting handouts you've already showed you can't provide for yourself, it's a reasonable prediction you won't be able to provide for 1, 2, 3 etc children.
Govt pays for the vasectomy or tube tying....
Govt pays for reversal when person is back on their feet
Villemure -- It is true that people should not have kids if they can not afford them. But once it happens what then? It is not that poor kids fault that his mother had sex. There has to be something in place to help that kid at least have some chance of getting by.
"Get by" to what means?
Agreed, the child is often left a victim
WIC & doctors care is great....
But a system that then gives mom $$$ doesn't ever guarantee the $$$ are spent ON THE CHILD.
If mom wants to take the handouts to feed & clothe the child she can.....but just as easily she can spend the money on booze & cigarettes.
There is no easy answer but I think some people use the system as a way of getting " a pay raise"
1 child = X
7 children = X +++++
But meanwhile the children suffer.
My solution ( which is radical )
TEMPORARY STERILIZATION if you are a ward of the state ( govt assistance )
If you are getting handouts you've already showed you can't provide for yourself, it's a reasonable prediction you won't be able to provide for 1, 2, 3 etc children.
Govt pays for the vasectomy or tube tying....
Govt pays for reversal when person is back on their feet
Min wage, whatever it is, should be a stepping stone for young people. If you are an adult and were working at McDonalds and making min wage a year ago you should not be making min wage today. If you go to work everyday and do your job and you are in the fast food industry you will get promoted, so you don't need min wage raised. If you bounce around from job to job every few months because you are insubordinate and/or constantly miss work then you should be lucky to make $7/hr.
Min wage, whatever it is, should be a stepping stone for young people. If you are an adult and were working at McDonalds and making min wage a year ago you should not be making min wage today. If you go to work everyday and do your job and you are in the fast food industry you will get promoted, so you don't need min wage raised. If you bounce around from job to job every few months because you are insubordinate and/or constantly miss work then you should be lucky to make $7/hr.
I see the results of my generation having to absorb the burden of paying for the recklessness of your generation.
Yes, the greed and selfishness are very apparent.
There you go with that generation stuff again because you have no argument .
My generation was the one that paid taxes to explore space, enabling you to speak on your cell phone, computer. There were more advances in industry and technology, than the previous 1900 years.
So grow up KID and stop your silly generational stuff.
I see the results of my generation having to absorb the burden of paying for the recklessness of your generation.
Yes, the greed and selfishness are very apparent.
There you go with that generation stuff again because you have no argument .
My generation was the one that paid taxes to explore space, enabling you to speak on your cell phone, computer. There were more advances in industry and technology, than the previous 1900 years.
So grow up KID and stop your silly generational stuff.
Didn't mean to strike such a sensitive nerve Don. Hope you sleep well when your kids and their kids have to pay the debts racked up by your generation. You're generation may destroy more lives after you pass than a physco with an AR-15 ever could.
And I don't need to have an argument when you ramble on about your views of the world. Nighty night
Didn't mean to strike such a sensitive nerve Don. Hope you sleep well when your kids and their kids have to pay the debts racked up by your generation. You're generation may destroy more lives after you pass than a physco with an AR-15 ever could.
And I don't need to have an argument when you ramble on about your views of the world. Nighty night
Also, I have tried to explain to you before and I made it clear in this thread that min wage increase will not lift someone into the middle class unless you make a min wage a middle class pay rate.
Ask yourself this: with all the programs the dems have enacted to eradicate poverty, why is there still so much poverty? It's not the lack of jobs or opportunities as someone pointed out the new crop of foreigners seem to be able to make something of themselves in this country. Dems buy votes of the genration to genration of poor by providing handouts. The question is why do the poor keep voting democrat when alls they do is stay poor? That is the defintion of insanity
Also, I have tried to explain to you before and I made it clear in this thread that min wage increase will not lift someone into the middle class unless you make a min wage a middle class pay rate.
Ask yourself this: with all the programs the dems have enacted to eradicate poverty, why is there still so much poverty? It's not the lack of jobs or opportunities as someone pointed out the new crop of foreigners seem to be able to make something of themselves in this country. Dems buy votes of the genration to genration of poor by providing handouts. The question is why do the poor keep voting democrat when alls they do is stay poor? That is the defintion of insanity
Also, I have tried to explain to you before and I made it clear in this thread that min wage increase will not lift someone into the middle class unless you make a min wage a middle class pay rate.
It's not the lack of jobs or opportunities as someone pointed out the new crop of foreigners seem to be able to make something of themselves in this country. Dems buy votes of the genration to genration of poor by providing handouts. The question is why do the poor keep voting democrat when alls they do is stay poor? That is the defintion of insanity
Flies...Wake up and come into the real world. Most of the poor do not vote. But if you're asking why do the Middle Class vote Democrat, because they have tried with Bush and Reagan, NOTHING improved for them, in fact it got worse.
Proverbs ? You say ? Because the repulsicans have a giant fishing net in the water sucking up all the fish.
Also, I have tried to explain to you before and I made it clear in this thread that min wage increase will not lift someone into the middle class unless you make a min wage a middle class pay rate.
It's not the lack of jobs or opportunities as someone pointed out the new crop of foreigners seem to be able to make something of themselves in this country. Dems buy votes of the genration to genration of poor by providing handouts. The question is why do the poor keep voting democrat when alls they do is stay poor? That is the defintion of insanity
Flies...Wake up and come into the real world. Most of the poor do not vote. But if you're asking why do the Middle Class vote Democrat, because they have tried with Bush and Reagan, NOTHING improved for them, in fact it got worse.
Proverbs ? You say ? Because the repulsicans have a giant fishing net in the water sucking up all the fish.
I think you are the guy that I've seen post is a nonpartisan moderate so you're the perfect guy to give an opinion.
Do you feel raising the minimum wage takes people out of poverty and moves them into the middle class
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here...
That you are not using the classic bowSlit/cut-paste-Alias style of discussion where you start by trying to pin a lie on me to argue against...
I dont think I even said I am moderate, because I am not...
I remember there was a really pathetic alias that claimed to be a "moderate independent" and would get humiliated and embarrassed on this site over and over and over, only to use yet another alias... was really sad to see him spiral out of control over and over and over again...
but to answer your question... No...
but in concern to the topic of the thread... I actually believe that the middle class who vote GOP actually are voting against themselves... but that does not mean that I think that a vote for the Dems are vote for the middle class either...
I think you are the guy that I've seen post is a nonpartisan moderate so you're the perfect guy to give an opinion.
Do you feel raising the minimum wage takes people out of poverty and moves them into the middle class
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here...
That you are not using the classic bowSlit/cut-paste-Alias style of discussion where you start by trying to pin a lie on me to argue against...
I dont think I even said I am moderate, because I am not...
I remember there was a really pathetic alias that claimed to be a "moderate independent" and would get humiliated and embarrassed on this site over and over and over, only to use yet another alias... was really sad to see him spiral out of control over and over and over again...
but to answer your question... No...
but in concern to the topic of the thread... I actually believe that the middle class who vote GOP actually are voting against themselves... but that does not mean that I think that a vote for the Dems are vote for the middle class either...
I do not understand this angle of the discussion. So an extra $2 an hour does not raise them into the "middle class status". So what? That is not an argument against a minimum wage raise. It will still help that individual.
Ok...so this year you ask for a min wage increase of 2 dollars. Then 4 years later you ask for the same.
Then Johnny's landlord finds out he just got a raise of 200 dollars per month and raises his rent by $100.
The Grocery store he bagged for now needs to raise their prices to avoid insolvency created by having to pay more for labor increases that they received NO value for.
I do not understand this angle of the discussion. So an extra $2 an hour does not raise them into the "middle class status". So what? That is not an argument against a minimum wage raise. It will still help that individual.
Ok...so this year you ask for a min wage increase of 2 dollars. Then 4 years later you ask for the same.
Then Johnny's landlord finds out he just got a raise of 200 dollars per month and raises his rent by $100.
The Grocery store he bagged for now needs to raise their prices to avoid insolvency created by having to pay more for labor increases that they received NO value for.
Ok...so this year you ask for a min wage increase of 2 dollars. Then 4 years later you ask for the same.
Then Johnny's landlord finds out he just got a raise of 200 dollars per month and raises his rent by $100.
The Grocery store he bagged for now needs to raise their prices to avoid insolvency created by having to pay more for labor increases that they received NO value for.
Where does it end?
It doesn't end unfortunately. Increases in min wage or not, the price of other things (gas, milk, rent, etc.) are all going up. The proposed increase in min wage is in attempt to keep up.
Ok...so this year you ask for a min wage increase of 2 dollars. Then 4 years later you ask for the same.
Then Johnny's landlord finds out he just got a raise of 200 dollars per month and raises his rent by $100.
The Grocery store he bagged for now needs to raise their prices to avoid insolvency created by having to pay more for labor increases that they received NO value for.
Where does it end?
It doesn't end unfortunately. Increases in min wage or not, the price of other things (gas, milk, rent, etc.) are all going up. The proposed increase in min wage is in attempt to keep up.
It doesn't end unfortunately. Increases in min wage or not, the price of other things (gas, milk, rent, etc.) are all going up. The proposed increase in min wage is in attempt to keep up.
Its unsustainable. Thats the reason why min wage shouldn't exist. Let the market set the wages. People can't model goods or services that add or keep NO value.
Min wage jobs were never intended to support families. If people want to make more money then they should obtain more skills.
It doesn't end unfortunately. Increases in min wage or not, the price of other things (gas, milk, rent, etc.) are all going up. The proposed increase in min wage is in attempt to keep up.
Its unsustainable. Thats the reason why min wage shouldn't exist. Let the market set the wages. People can't model goods or services that add or keep NO value.
Min wage jobs were never intended to support families. If people want to make more money then they should obtain more skills.
It doesn't end unfortunately. Increases in min wage or not, the price of other things (gas, milk, rent, etc.) are all going up. The proposed increase in min wage is in attempt to keep up.
forget it... you are talking numbers and reality... he wont get it...
it really is a "willing vs able" situation...
he might be willing to understand... the problem is that Slit is unable to understand...
It doesn't end unfortunately. Increases in min wage or not, the price of other things (gas, milk, rent, etc.) are all going up. The proposed increase in min wage is in attempt to keep up.
forget it... you are talking numbers and reality... he wont get it...
it really is a "willing vs able" situation...
he might be willing to understand... the problem is that Slit is unable to understand...
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