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Author: [Politics] Topic: Romney's 2011 Tax Return
TheGoldenGoose
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TheGoldenGoose
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#1
Posted: 9/21/2012 10:06:13 PM

Well, the long awaited 2011 tax return is now public.

Romney's income was $13,696,951 in 2011, and he paid $1,935,708 in taxes, an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent in 2011.

Romney listed no income from wages, salaries or tips on his tax return. He recognized $6,810,176 in capital gains, $3,649,567 in dividends, $260,390 in directors fees, and $190,350 in speaking fees.

At 379 pages, Romney's 2011 tax return is nearly twice as long as his as his 203-page return from 2010. A full 267 pages of the latest return are devoted to listing Romney's investments in 34 offshore corporations and partnerships, including 15 in the Cayman Islands. Of the 34 offshore companies, 30 are located in countries considered to be offshore tax havens by the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

Romney's Swiss bank account, which appeared on his 2010 tax return, has disappeared. His personal Bermuda-based corporation, Sankaty, remains. Romney also shifted $111,081 offshore to a Bain Capital affiliate based in the Cayman Islands during 2011, and an additional $296,471 to a Golden Gate Capital fund, also organized in the Caymans.

Romney also recognized a $102,790 foreign tax credit on his 2011 tax return -- a refund the U.S. government provides taxpayers for taxes they pay to other countries. Romney's decision to forgo some of his charitable contribution deductions leaves him open to criticism from political opponents, who may question why he chose to recognize other tax benefits in the code, like his foreign tax credit. Romney listed a total of $3,505,188 in foreign income in 2011.

Much of Romney's investment income flows from his retirement package from Bain Capital. Unlike most retired financiers, Romney was allowed to receive his Bain retirement as carried interest, rather than ordinary income. Carried interest is subject to the favorable capital gains tax rate of 15 percent, rather than the 35 percent tax rate that the wealthiest Americans pay on ordinary income.

That preferential rate on capital gains and dividends saved Mitt Romney a whopping $1.2 million in taxes in 2011, cutting his tax bill almost in half.  He would have paid $3.1 million in taxes without that special treatment.

Just an average Joe.



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canovsp
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#2
Posted: 9/21/2012 10:20:29 PM
Anyone who has or had a 401K in the private sector or other private investment knows this is normal.

If you are a community organizer then you would not know.
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#3
Posted: 9/21/2012 10:33:02 PM
His charitable contributions tell me much more than the top line number.

And his retirement income is NOT via a 401k, he maxed out his SEP off the backs of the companies they loot..hardly comparable to someone investing their OWN money into their 401k.

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#4
Posted: 9/21/2012 10:37:59 PM
Romney pays more taxes than 'legally due,' disqualifies himself to be president

In July, the GOP presidential nominee was asked by ABC News about the tax rate he's paid over the years.

"I've paid all the taxes required by law," Romney responded, refusing to give an exact or estimated rate.

Romney continued: "I don't pay more than are legally due and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

Today, Romney released his 2011 tax returns and it was revealed that he paid an effective rate of 14.1 percent.
The campaign admitted that he limited his deductions for charitable contributions to conform to Romney's August statement, based upon the January estimate of income, that he paid at least 13 percent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years.
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#5
Posted: 9/21/2012 10:52:05 PM

garbage, my federal was 20%.....

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canovsp
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#6
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:02:43 PM
We need to simplify the tax code.

If your wages come from a salary and you make XYZ then you pay XYZ. No gray area, no write-offs, no loopholes, no excuses.

If your wages come from private investments and you make XYZ then you pay XYZ. No gray area, no write-offs, no loopholes, no excuses.

I don't think liberals will go for that. Liberals need to be able to argue that rich people aren't paying their fair share without actually defining fair share. If the law says that Romney paid what he was supposed to then no one should get their twat in a tizzy
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#7
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:06:00 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by canovsp:

We need to simplify the tax code.

If your wages come from a salary and you make XYZ then you pay XYZ. No gray area, no write-offs, no loopholes, no excuses.

If your wages come from private investments and you make XYZ then you pay XYZ. No gray area, no write-offs, no loopholes, no excuses.

I don't think liberals will go for that. Liberals need to be able to argue that rich people aren't paying their fair share without actually defining fair share. If the law says that Romney paid what he was supposed to then no one should get their twat in a tizzy


And should you pay a lower rate on income from investments than income from labor?
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#8
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:08:37 PM
Yes, but the tax laws are just that....made by legislators(sp) with hands that are on the piggy bank.
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canovsp
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#9
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:17:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by depeche2:



And should you pay a lower rate on income from investments than income from labor?

I think taxes should be minimal for everyone but I'm not trying to make that argument here. The argument I'm making here is I would like congress, state legislators, city councilmen, etc, to define a tax code that everyone can understand with no loopholes or gray areas.
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#10
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:23:59 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by canovsp:


I think taxes should be minimal for everyone but I'm not trying to make that argument here. The argument I'm making here is I would like congress, state legislators, city councilmen, etc, to define a tax code that everyone can understand with no loopholes or gray areas.


Are you running for office?  If you're going to reply to my post, why not address the question posed?
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#11
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:24:17 PM
My point is this...I paid just a smidge over 20 percent...Mitt's tax rate at that is a little over 760K short. How many are out there like him?...3 to 4 thousand?....at the most?..That's a month in Iraq, by God...
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#12
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:25:31 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jay10:

Yes, but the tax laws are just that....made by legislators(sp) with hands that are on the piggy bank.

The piggy bank has swallowed up the politician and is their owner.
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canovsp
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#13
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:47:42 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by depeche2:



Are you running for office?  If you're going to reply to my post, why not address the question posed?

If it was up to me everyone would pay 10% (individuals/companies, salaries/cap gains) off the bat. That money would go to infrastructure (a liberal fave), public education, public workers (cops, firemen, CD329, etc), national defense, etc.

From there everyone pays another 10% but the individual/company decides where this goes. It is similar to charity but it can be anything recognized as worthy. I guess we can let the govt decide what is worthy. Examples would be: (welfare (housing subsidies, foodstamps), families of fallen soldiers, homeless shelters, the National Endowment of the Arts, more infrastructure, etc. And you can split it up. If you want to send all of it to one group you can or you can send 1% to 10 different groups.

With my second philosophy everyone is paying their fair share but they are deciding where they want their tax dollars going. Which is a novel F***ing idea. Don't tell me how to spend my tax dollars and I won't tell you how to spend your tax dollars.
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#14
Posted: 9/21/2012 11:52:27 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by canovsp:


If it was up to me everyone would pay 10% (individuals/companies, salaries/cap gains) off the bat. That money would go to infrastructure (a liberal fave), public education, public workers (cops, firemen, CD329, etc), national defense, etc.

From there everyone pays another 10% but the individual/company decides where this goes. It is similar to charity but it can be anything recognized as worthy. I guess we can let the govt decide what is worthy. Examples would be: (welfare (housing subsidies, foodstamps), families of fallen soldiers, homeless shelters, the National Endowment of the Arts, more infrastructure, etc. And you can split it up. If you want to send all of it to one group you can or you can send 1% to 10 different groups.

With my second philosophy everyone is paying their fair share but they are deciding where they want their tax dollars going. Which is a novel F***ing idea. Don't tell me how to spend my tax dollars and I won't tell you how to spend your tax dollars.


Adorable idea, but extraordinarily inefficient, wasteful and irrational.  Some things would be grossly overfunded and some would be grossly underfunded.  There would be no predictability in the budgets.  It could change completely from year to year.  How can this allow for any kind of planning?  Again, really adorable, not really practical.
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#15
Posted: 9/22/2012 12:11:08 AM
What I define as essentials is where the first 10% would come from.

Let's break down some of the examples of the second 10%:

If a certain group is overfunded it is because individuals decide to send their OWN money to those groups. I think that would mean most people think those groups are important. If certain groups are underfunded it is because most people think those groups are not important.

We are now seeing the difference between a liberal (you) and a conservative (me). I have confidence in individuals, even if I don't agree with them, to spend their money how they want. You do not have confidence in individuals. You would rather the govt distribute the money.
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#16
Posted: 9/22/2012 2:28:41 AM
There will be revisions in the tax code, ie some type of flat tax, so the 47% start paying something.

BOH/RR, either one,  will  use that as an excuse to start getting us out of this mountain of debt.
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#17
Posted: 9/22/2012 2:41:48 AM
So Mitt payed 14% last year? Sounds good to me! Let's elect him and everyone else follow suit. 14% it is since he should be leading by example. Flat across the board, no more no less for everyone. Elect the Mittster with that criteria as far as taxes go and let him run wild.
Posted using a mobile device.
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#18
Posted: 9/22/2012 5:25:29 PM

Quote Posted by jay10:

My point is this...I paid just a smidge over 20 percent...Mitt's tax rate at that is a little over 760K short. How many are out there like him?...3 to 4 thousand?....at the most?..That's a month in Iraq, by God...

---------------------------------------------------------------

You paid 20% coming from peanuts...lol

Mr. Romney has dished out over 50 million bucks in the last 20 years in taxes and charitable contributions.

And you still want to whine about your lousy 20% coming from peanut wages?...lol

Romney and Ryan in 012!

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#19
Posted: 9/22/2012 5:34:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Quote Posted by jay10:

My point is this...I paid just a smidge over 20 percent...Mitt's tax rate at that is a little over 760K short. How many are out there like him?...3 to 4 thousand?....at the most?..That's a month in Iraq, by God...

---------------------------------------------------------------

You paid 20% coming from peanuts...lol

Mr. Romney has dished out over 50 million bucks in the last 20 years in taxes and charitable contributions.

And you still want to whine about your lousy 20% coming from peanut wages?...lol

Romney and Ryan in 012!


What a horrible reply, but it does explain why you pimp for him like this.

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#20
Posted: 9/22/2012 6:26:24 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


What a horrible reply, but it does explain why you pimp for him like this.


 Among other things people need to learn the difference between relative and absolute
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#21
Posted: 9/22/2012 6:28:04 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:


 Among other things people need to learn the difference between relative and absolute

see the thread about "where the 47% comes from" for further evidence.
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#22
Posted: 9/22/2012 6:37:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Quote Posted by jay10:

My point is this...I paid just a smidge over 20 percent...Mitt's tax rate at that is a little over 760K short. How many are out there like him?...3 to 4 thousand?....at the most?..That's a month in Iraq, by God...

---------------------------------------------------------------

You paid 20% coming from peanuts...lol

Mr. Romney has dished out over 50 million bucks in the last 20 years in taxes and charitable contributions.

And you still want to whine about your lousy 20% coming from peanut wages?...lol

Romney and Ryan in 012!


the more I read this the more I realize how fundamentally flawed this rationale is 

It is amazing / scary
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#23
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:24:48 PM

I dont see the big fascination with this.

Big deal, he paid $2M in taxes and by the sounds of it all his garbage appears legal (an audit would be needed to find out otherwise)

No one here takes any deductions?

I have said it many times that we shouldnt girl about a rich mans taxes if he legally follows the tax code and what is allowed under law.

Anyone here pay $2M in taxes last year?

I didnt think so.

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#24
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:53:30 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lordspoint:

I dont see the big fascination with this.

Big deal, he paid $2M in taxes and by the sounds of it all his garbage appears legal (an audit would be needed to find out otherwise)

No one here takes any deductions?

I have said it many times that we shouldnt girl about a rich mans taxes if he legally follows the tax code and what is allowed under law.

Anyone here pay $2M in taxes last year?

I didnt think so.





Well, how would we know if he is legal or not because he's only divulging two years of tax information?  "You're only getting two years", is a pretty shitty answer from a guy that wants to be POTUS.
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#25
Posted: 9/22/2012 7:56:38 PM
lords,

Goose is right, there is absolutely no way you can judge if he is legally following the code when he has a zillion Bahama outs and ways to defer his Bain income, use cheating tax strategies like deferred management fees etc etc.

Romney built his fortune off deception and corruption, I have zero confidence he is following the code and being honest.
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