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Author: [Politics] Topic: Strike threat at Hostess could kill off Twinkies
bowlslit send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: 5Dimes |
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#26
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:04:50 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

As an aside, you do understand why a publically traded company in bankruptcy will never blame the product for a decline in profits, right?

Do you understand why that is?

Not that it matters in this case, but of course the debtors and stock holders need to have some confidence in the brand going forward otherwise a mass selloff will occur.

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#27
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:07:33 PM

I'd hardly call a 2% decline + Walmart sales a decline or dyoff. Thats not that bad in a down economy.

When was the last time you saw substancial advertising for a twinkie other than the side of a hostess truck?

Djbrow you are off your game today!

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#28
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:14:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Except for like this there is no doubt. Unions chokehold may be fatal. Unless perhaps you could find blame elswehere. Doubt it.

Aren't these twinkies made by machines anyway, for the most part?

 

Ya, the dough crawls into the oven all by itself, and the little twinkie walks out and down Main st, right onto the shelf.

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#29
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:15:13 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by D_Unit:



Dying industry? Ha, uhh have you ever been to the grocery store? Time to step out of your Bio-dome and look around, pal.

Lovely..

Have you looked at the competition and the lack of store shelf space this crap gets?

Little Debbie's where I live kicks Hostess in shelf space and pricing, when I lived in PA of course Tasty was killing them.

Hostess is a dying company, they have little creativity and nothing new to spur sales. Here the new product is like Lemon Twinkees..

Keep blaming the unions instead of looking at the top line first.
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#30
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:17:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I'd hardly call a 2% decline + Walmart sales a decline or dyoff. Thats not that bad in a down economy.

When was the last time you saw substancial advertising for a twinkie other than the side of a hostess truck?

Djbrow you are off your game today!

2% in the last year. How much do you think they declined previous to the last year, as society became more and more health conscious and more competitors emerged?

There is no game, because there is no argument.

I will end this discussion and all others with you because you aren't capable of rational debate on issues. You merely are a lackey for the far right.

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#31
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:19:50 PM
Wall
Is it a dying industry or company?
You seem to be flip flopping
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#32
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:22:02 PM
Don
Read my post 13.
You can almost fully automate the entire process.
Welcome to the 21st century.
If you need proof of this I can provide it.
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#33
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:26:29 PM
Dj
Are you talking about the company or the product?
Is the company dying because of the product or visa versa?
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#34
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:28:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

2% in the last year. How much do you think they declined previous to the last year, as society became more and more health conscious and more competitors emerged?

There is no game, because there is no argument.

I will end this discussion and all others with you because you aren't capable of rational debate on issues. You merely are a lackey for the far right.

Wow. Is that the best you can do? Yes, consumers have become a little more health conscious. All that healthy attitude and only dip 2%?

It was attitudes like yours that allowed the steel industry to fold up in the US. Attitudes like mine and my fellow RIGHT WINGERS would likely have saved it.

Unsustainable union pensions and bennies.

PS. I like how you have started to become like your fellow left wing hacks DL36 and falsely claim victory when you're not even close.

Also like how you choose to attempt to end the discussion before you get further exposed.

Back on topic....do you really think its not the unions fault in this case. YES or NO?

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#35
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:29:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by don juan:

 

Ya, the dough crawls into the oven all by itself, and the little twinkie walks out and down Main st, right onto the shelf.

this made me laugh

and want a twinkie strangely enough

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#36
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:32:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by don juan:

 

Ya, the dough crawls into the oven all by itself, and the little twinkie walks out and down Main st, right onto the shelf.

Don, do you need me to explain to you what a conveyor belt is?

Really?

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#37
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:33:08 PM
Just because Americans are fat does not mean that Hostess's product line (and that is the discussion, even though you are trying to nit pick) is a relic, their pricing is not competitive, they are not spending to market as they did and they have no pricing power.

Higher prices for inputs, lower margins, no marketing, lesser shelf space, declining sales..

Yeah looks like the unions fault.
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#38
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:38:17 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by lordspoint:

Dj
Are you talking about the company or the product?
Is the company dying because of the product or visa versa?

Hostess filed for bankruptcy twice and reorganized before the new troubles. Accordingly to the holdings reports, there were concerns of product diversification. I imagine any company that is dying generally does so because of the product, simply because the product becomes the source of revenue (of course investment does to, but investment is based solely on expectation of revenues, based on product...cyclical of course).

While Hostess is synomous with Twinkies, obviously there are other products too.

There will always be some market for bad snack food among children so moving to health conscious society might impact sales in a competely undiversified company, unless they were able to completely corner the market on the product on the product.

I think the reality is that Hostess relied on having that market too long, didn't keep up with the market changes, never diversified, and certainly were not helped by labor when profits declined.

Unlike certain posters who aren't capable of understanding that the fault almost never lies with the extremes, you certainly get that.

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#39
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:43:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

Just because Americans are fat does not mean that Hostess's product line (and that is the discussion, even though you are trying to nit pick) is a relic, their pricing is not competitive, they are not spending to market as they did and they have no pricing power.

Higher prices for inputs, lower margins, no marketing, lesser shelf space, declining sales..

Yeah looks like the unions fault.

The unions demands are cause for the product having no price power.

Does the workers compensation package have much to do with the lower margins? How many people does it take to hit the 'GO' button? We know that there is probably more workers than necessary...because its highly unionized. Union outfits rarely run lean.

How about the 900 billion legacy pensions? Any bearing on profit margins?

 

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#40
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:53:12 PM
Wall
Wasn't looking to nit pick just wanted clarification on your comments.
U make some valid points.....but you do have to factor in the companies pension liabilities into the picture.
At the same time the management costs have to be examined also.
In this Twinkie scenario I imagine its a combo of factors that are not helping the situation. Dj touched on a few.
But yes I do think the union issues are partly to blame.
Please explain if u don't agree
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#41
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:55:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

The unions demands are cause for the product having no price power.

Does the workers compensation package have much to do with the lower margins? How many people does it take to hit the 'GO' button? We know that there is probably more workers than necessary...because its highly unionized. Union outfits rarely run lean.

How about the 900 billion legacy pensions? Any bearing on profit margins?

 

Who agreed to all these union contracts?

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#42
Posted: 4/19/2012 10:55:39 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Hostess filed for bankruptcy twice and reorganized before the new troubles. Accordingly to the holdings reports, there were concerns of product diversification. I imagine any company that is dying generally does so because of the product, simply because the product becomes the source of revenue (of course investment does to, but investment is based solely on expectation of revenues, based on product...cyclical of course).

While Hostess is synomous with Twinkies, obviously there are other products too.

There will always be some market for bad snack food among children so moving to health conscious society might impact sales in a competely undiversified company, unless they were able to completely corner the market on the product on the product.

I think the reality is that Hostess relied on having that market too long, didn't keep up with the market changes, never diversified, and certainly were not helped by labor when profits declined.

Unlike certain posters who aren't capable of understanding that the fault almost never lies with the extremes, you certainly get that.

Why the need to further diversify if sales only drop two out of every hundred?

Especially when the majority of your machinery is set up to produce golden spongecakes with cream filling.

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#43
Posted: 4/19/2012 11:00:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by darkhorse12:

Who agreed to all these union contracts?

Who knows how long the contracts have been in place. Besides what does it matter now? If the workers want to continue watching the twinkies roll off the conveyor belts they will need to make some serious concessions.

The twinkies will go the way of the steel mills if they don't.

Ever tasted a twinkie imported from India? I hope we never have to go down that road.

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#44
Posted: 4/19/2012 11:12:35 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by lordspoint:

Wall
Wasn't looking to nit pick just wanted clarification on your comments.
U make some valid points.....but you do have to factor in the companies pension liabilities into the picture.
At the same time the management costs have to be examined also.
In this Twinkie scenario I imagine its a combo of factors that are not helping the situation. Dj touched on a few.
But yes I do think the union issues are partly to blame.
Please explain if u don't agree

Lords- to say that the union issues are only partly to blame doesn't do the issue proper justice.

There are a couple of different figures but the legacy pensions are owed at least $966 million of the reported 1 billion plus in debts.

What percentage is that?

 

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#45
Posted: 4/19/2012 11:27:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Lords- to say that the union issues are only partly to blame doesn't do the issue proper justice.

There are a couple of different figures but the legacy pensions are owed at least $966 million of the reported 1 billion plus in debts.

What percentage is that?

 


What period of time were those pension debts owed? How long have they been accruing?

If the top line is sinking, nothing else really can be blamed, especially since we know for a fact input prices are going up.

If the company agreed to the contract with the unions then they need to honor those contracts or renegociate them..not throw them onto the government via BK. 

The fact of multiple BK's in a short period of time is quite telling and as DJ mentioned, they have not kept up with the market and instead of trying to diversify and modify their brand they instead try to push prices higher and the result of doing so is they are not surviving and probably should not.
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#46
Posted: 4/19/2012 11:35:32 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:


What period of time were those pension debts owed? How long have they been accruing?

If the top line is sinking, nothing else really can be blamed, especially since we know for a fact input prices are going up.

If the company agreed to the contract with the unions then they need to honor those contracts or renegociate them..not throw them onto the government via BK. 

The fact of multiple BK's in a short period of time is quite telling and as DJ mentioned, they have not kept up with the market and instead of trying to diversify and modify their brand they instead try to push prices higher and the result of doing so is they are not surviving and probably should not.

Wall. I read that the prices are already to the point they cant raise them anymore. They are trying to renegotiate and the union said they will strike rather than go to the table again.

How do you modify your brand when the bulk of your equipment is set up to make three inch long spongecakes with filling?

My feeling is that if labor makes some concessions they can save the brand with current sales figures and without revamping the whole product line.

Labor is ready to go under rather than become viable longterm? Why?

 

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#47
Posted: 4/19/2012 11:39:52 PM

If 99% of the liberal media is reporting the blame is mostly high labor costs, I will hold the liberal media at face value.

Matter of fact I think I could get away with 100%

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#48
Posted: 4/20/2012 1:50:23 AM
It is funny to watch an alias milk one talking point over and over and over...

Dullard

Reminds me of the Alias weather threads...


Seems like just another one

Covers knows
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#49
Posted: 4/20/2012 6:07:39 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by dl36:

It is funny to watch an alias milk one talking point over and over and over...

Dullard

Reminds me of the Alias weather threads...


Seems like just another one

Covers knows

do you not get tired of that garbage?

its not amusing, its not helpful, its not witty, its not intelligent, its not interesting, its not thought provoking

it is juvenile and friggin boring, embarassing that a grown man would be have like that

why not take your little schtick on over to the penealy box and you can try to be entertaining over there

 

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#50
Posted: 4/20/2012 6:08:47 AM
behave
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