State of Flordia vs. George Zimmerman ,,Affidavd of probable cause

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Author: [Politics] Topic: State of Flordia vs. George Zimmerman ,,Affidavd of probable cause
SarasotaSlim PM SarasotaSlim
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Posted: 4/13/2012 12:12:18 AM

“This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause,” Dershowitz concluded. “everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything.”

LQQks like Alan is saying the Prosecutrix got it all wrong .........

J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/13/2012 12:31:26 AM
@#24

Dershowitz a Harvard university law professor......






are you saying a Harvard university law professor knows more than a retired nypd detective that is paid to regurgitate CNN talking points?

Money will not be happy with this assertion
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SarasotaSlim PM SarasotaSlim
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Posted: 4/13/2012 12:40:42 AM

I guess the Affidavid is using Zimmerman saying "those a'hole alway's get away' as Zimmerman profiling Trayvon as an a'hole .. 

If that's the case for profiling Obama is profiling Kanye West as a Jackass..

In the Atlantic article, Obama tells reporter David Samuels he likes Kanye, and Samuels responds: "Even though you called him a jackass?" "He is a jackass," the president replies...

SarasotaSlim PM SarasotaSlim
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Posted: 4/13/2012 12:43:10 AM
*Affidavit ...next thing you know ..I'll be using Numbers "your "... 
OakleyDoak PM OakleyDoak
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Posted: 4/13/2012 1:24:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

Looks like the guy on the left side of the picture thinks so ...too .

 

I figured him to be older than me...and a Mongoloid ! Did you see where he typed that he would like to meet Obama ?

 

FriedShrimp PM FriedShrimp
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Posted: 4/13/2012 1:34:15 AM

Which Soap Opera is this?

Mongoloids?

Grab a phone book and call a Democrat a Mongoloid and see what happens.

 

FriedShrimp PM FriedShrimp
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Posted: 4/13/2012 1:35:15 AM

Harvard Law School?

Is that good or bad now?

 

14daroad PM 14daroad
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Posted: 4/13/2012 8:23:17 AM

Charging Document Against Zimmerman Says That Zimmerman Said "F***in' Punks"

14daroad PM 14daroad
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Posted: 4/13/2012 8:28:49 AM

If the prosecutor's case is now:

1. Zimmerman allegedly followed Martin because Martin's girlfriend says so

2. Martin's mother says Martin is screaming on the 9-11 tape (hello confirmation bias!)

This is an embarrassment and I hope Zimmerman finds a legal remedy in all of this after he is acquitted.

depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/13/2012 9:55:01 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Charging Document Against Zimmerman Says That Zimmerman Said "F***in' Punks"



I think that's probably what Martin himself claimed he said.  It's not necessarily racial but "friggin punks" "they always get away" "up to no good".  He got very pissed seeing this kid walking through his neighborhood.

But everyone admits they got into a tussle.  The question is whether he was reasonably in fear for his life when he shot the gun.  That tape, and who was screaming and crying leading up to the shot, really could be outcome determinative.
J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:22:40 AM
Depeche,
Theoretical situation here

Treyvon beating on Z
Z pulls a weapon
T yells "help, help"
Within seconds, Z pulls trigger

Is Z justified

Even if this happened and T was throwing up his hands and screaming "help me, help me" if Z shot him within seconds, I think its justified ( ( I personally feel it is more likely that it was Z who was on the tape )

Do you think that if my scenerio is true that a person can "turn off" their fear within a few seconds?
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depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:30:49 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by J_Galt:

Depeche,
Theoretical situation here

Treyvon beating on Z
Z pulls a weapon
T yells "help, help"
Within seconds, Z pulls trigger

Is Z justified

Even if this happened and T was throwing up his hands and screaming "help me, help me" if Z shot him within seconds, I think its justified ( ( I personally feel it is more likely that it was Z who was on the tape )

Do you think that if my scenerio is true that a person can "turn off" their fear within a few seconds?


No it's not justified.  Z has to be in immediate fear of his life at the time he shot him.  Not previously.
mattbrot PM mattbrot
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:38:54 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by depeche2:



No it's not justified.  Z has to be in immediate fear of his life at the time he shot him.  Not previously.



J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:41:54 AM
So you dont think somebody can be hyped up, and in fear of their life seconds after the action took place?

So if Treyvon was beating him, he could be in fear, if Treyvon stopped for 2 seconds, in those 2 seconds Z should be able to turn the fear switch off?

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J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:43:44 AM
Sorry, early submit

If Treyvon was beating on Z AND yelling "help me ", could Z be in fear?

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J_Galt PM J_Galt
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Posted: 4/13/2012 10:46:09 AM
@#37

Is that scenerio 2nd degree?

T pounding on Z
Z pulls weapon
T yells help
Z pulls trigger
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HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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Posted: 4/13/2012 11:44:02 AM
Even if this happened and T was throwing up his hands and screaming "help me, help me" if Z shot him within seconds, I think its justified ( ( I personally feel it is more likely that it was Z who was on the tape )

_____________________

This is pretty damn dicey.....if someone is retreating and you still pull the trigger WHILE they were yelling for help (IF it happened that way), that is pretty hard to call self defense.  It all depends on the time frame.  But they will be able to figure that out from witnesses who heard the calls for help and then the shot.

Once again, we know nothing specific about Z's injuries.  That's going to be a big deal.
depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/13/2012 12:50:15 PM
Listen to the tape.  The screaming and crying for help with more than 1 or 2 seconds.  It seems rather inplausible that one could be wailing away on someone else, beating them to a pulp, while simultaneously screaming and crying for help.  I'll have to go back and listen to that tape, but I think the cries for help lasted for at least 7-10+ seconds.  If we conclude that he wasn't beating or hitting him in those last 7-10 seconds prior to the shot then self-defense just isn't there.  I suppose he could argue he was dazed and confused (concussion would be helpful) and that's why he shot him.  That argument if successful would certainly call for much lesser charges - like involuntary manslaughter.

That's why having Z's defense spelled out publicly isn't wise.  He needs to know what they have on him before formulating the ideal defense.
SarasotaSlim PM SarasotaSlim
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Posted: 4/13/2012 1:59:23 PM
The attorney for George Zimmerman, Mark O'Mara said he will likely filing a motion for the judge to recuse herself from the case because of a possible conflict of interest....he said  the filing of the motion to have Circuit Court Judge Jessica Recksiedler removed may be "imminent."

O'Mara became Zimmerman's attorney after being recommended by attorney Mark NeJame, who was contacted by Zimmerman's family. Recksiedler's husband works at NeJame's law firm.

..and the circus begins ..

SarasotaSlim PM SarasotaSlim
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Posted: 4/13/2012 3:07:36 PM

When  Angela Cory opened her news conference announcing the murder in the 2nd degree charge she said :"It is the search for justice for Trayvon that brought us here today,"

Coincidence ?

Trayvon's mother, Sybrina Martin, has filed papers two weeks ago to trademark two phrases based on her sons name: "I Am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon." ...

HutchEmAll PM HutchEmAll
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Posted: 4/13/2012 3:17:48 PM
If we conclude that he wasn't beating or hitting him in those last 7-10 seconds prior to the shot then self-defense just isn't there. 
_______________________

I don't know what tape says what, but these are the types of facts you hope to find out.  Not to mention who and how long that person was crying for help, and whether those cries ended for any length of time before Z shot him....IF the cries ended before the gun was fired, how long was the delay?

Look at how completely different stories are plausible depending on the FACTS.

1.  Let's say it's T's voice crying for help.  Witnesses say he was crying for help for 10-15 seconds.  Then the crying stops.  5 seconds later, the shot is heard.  And Z showed virtually no injuries when examined by the doctor.

If that is what the evidence says, Z is in trouble.

2.  Let's say it was Z's voice crying for help.  He cries for help for 10 seconds or so as he's getting his head banged on the ground by T.  As they hear this crying, witnesses report they hear a shot and then the crying subsides quickly.  Z shows considerable injuries when examined by the doctors consistent with getting his head slammed against the ground.

I'd say Z's attorneys would have a good shot at reasonable doubt.  


Can't folks see how both stories have believeability DEPENDING on what the evidence says.  It makes no sense to try and speculate.  It's really just guessing.  

I don't mind the discussion, but if you have already made up your mind on this, I hope you NEVER get picked to serve on jury duty, especially if I'm the one on trial.    
SarasotaSlim PM SarasotaSlim
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Posted: 4/13/2012 3:26:27 PM

Florida Circuit court Judge Jessica Recksieder judge has now offered to recuse herself from the George Zimmerman case in a surprise hearing because of her husband's ties to a CNN legal analyst and commentator....

 

ClubDirt PM ClubDirt
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Posted: 4/13/2012 3:33:49 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

Florida Circuit court Judge Jessica Recksieder judge has now offered to recuse herself from the George Zimmerman case in a surprise hearing because of her husband's ties to a CNN legal analyst and commentator....

 



she can't get out fast enough.  no normal judge wants anything to do with this circus. 
depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/13/2012 3:45:05 PM
I think Z's attorney is going to need to know if the prosecution can convincingly establish that it was TM that was crying for help for the several seconds leading into the shot.  If that can be established, then I can see them shifting to a defense saying that he was daxed and confused from the beating he had just taken and that even if it had already entered, his mind was altered by the fight and that it was an involuntary reaction.

This is a different and alternative defense from saying that he shot him while he was beaten and while he was in imminent fear.

This is the sort of thing that shows exactly why crim defense attorneys tell their clients to immediately shut up and say nothing.  They want to first know what the state has and what they can establish.
bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 4/13/2012 3:51:20 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by depeche2:

I think Z's attorney is going to need to know if the prosecution can convincingly establish that it was TM that was crying for help for the several seconds leading into the shot.  If that can be established, then I can see them shifting to a defense saying that he was daxed and confused from the beating he had just taken and that even if it had already entered, his mind was altered by the fight and that it was an involuntary reaction.

This is a different and alternative defense from saying that he shot him while he was beaten and while he was in imminent fear.

This is the sort of thing that shows exactly why crim defense attorneys tell their clients to immediately shut up and say nothing.  They want to first know what the state has and what they can establish.

The guy who lives at the Townehome right above where the fight took place is going to own anything from the prosecution that says it was TM screaming. 'John' witnessed Zimmerman screaming for help while he was on the bottom. The only thing the prosecution has is Trayvons mother saying it is his son's voice...and that is after reports of his dad saying the voice wasn't his son's.

Regardless, unless 'John' is outright lying....the screaming issue is solved.

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