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Author: [Politics] Topic: Virginia Abortion Laws
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#1
Posted: 2/17/2012 12:59:26 PM
What the darn
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#2
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:00:24 PM
virginia is for lovers
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#3
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:11:15 PM
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#4
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:13:32 PM
Funny that the article was worried about the statutory object rape of the woman but did not consider how the fetus felt about its impending murder or the snuffing of its heartbeat without its consent.
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#5
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:20:08 PM
women need to know their place in virginia

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst.  And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
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#6
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:20:26 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Funny that the article was worried about the statutory object rape of the woman but did not consider how the fetus felt about its impending murder or the snuffing of its heartbeat without its consent.

I'm no scientist, and obviously neither are you, but I'm pretty sure fetus' don't feel anything. 



Nice of you to side with the right-wing GOP state sponsored 'rape' of American women though.
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#7
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:23:34 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:


I'm no scientist, and obviously neither are you, but I'm pretty sure fetus' don't feel anything. 



Nice of you to side with the right-wing GOP state sponsored 'rape' of American women though.


to some of these big government guys, the government's reach can't go far enough- in the bedroom, in the doctor's office, in their daughter's vagina, wherever the government thinks they need to go to get votes from the rednecks,. 
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#8
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:26:30 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:


I'm no scientist, and obviously neither are you, but I'm pretty sure fetus' don't feel anything. 



Nice of you to side with the right-wing GOP state sponsored 'rape' of American women though.

I side with the side that has compassion and promotes responsibility. How does your point of view promote those two things?

All I need...to make up my mind what side of the argument Im on is....is there a heartbeat or not?

And I have a good friend who is the product of a rape, and she is a pretty good person.

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#9
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:28:57 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



to some of these big government guys, the government's reach can't go far enough- in the bedroom, in the doctor's office, in their daughter's vagina, wherever the government thinks they need to go to get votes from the rednecks,. 

I simply pointed out the hypocracy of the worry about rape vs lack of worry about murder. I do believe snuffing a heartbeat constitutes murder.

Liberals worry more about stray cats then they do about a fetus with a clearly discernable heartbeat.

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#10
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:29:28 PM
I'm wondering when it will be time to cut off state funding and special privileges for Churches. And to take this to the next logical step, sue them for religious discrimination justified by their efforts to harm women and draft draconian laws based on their religious beliefs.

How is banning abortion not religious discrimination? 

What about my religious belief that abortions are ok?

Each person should be allowed (by law) to believe whatever they want. As soon as you try to force your beliefs on anybody else, you should be punished (by law).

I would never try to force a religious person to have an abortion. It is just as despicable and indefensible for a religious person to try force people to not be allowed to have an abortion.

Period. 
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#11
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:34:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:

I'm wondering when it will be time to cut off state funding and special privileges for Churches. And to take this to the next logical step, sue them for religious discrimination justified by their efforts to harm women and draft draconian laws based on their religious beliefs.

How is banning abortion not religious discrimination? 

What about my religious belief that abortions are ok?

Each person should be allowed (by law) to believe whatever they want. As soon as you try to force your beliefs on anybody else, you should be punished (by law).

I would never try to force a religious person to have an abortion. It is just as despicable and indefensible for a religious person to try force people to not be allowed to have an abortion.

Period. 

Simply because your religious freedoms end when where anothers begin. And the debate about the fetus is well still in doubt.

If a pregnant woman gets killed do we not charge the murderer with two counts?

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#12
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:34:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I simply pointed out the hypocracy of the worry about rape vs lack of worry about murder. I do believe snuffing a heartbeat constitutes murder.

Liberals worry more about stray cats then they do about a fetus with a clearly discernable heartbeat.



i don;t think you understand their position as you don't seem to recognize the women's right issue and the concern about the government getting so involved in personal and medical matters.  the issue is not black and white.  if you are pro life, you are severely infringing on a woman's right to control what happens in her own body and giving the government license to expand its authoiryt in this area.  if you are pro abortion, as i am, you are giving a woman the right to kill cells or a fetus. 

there are obviously arguments for and against that are valid and recognize important rights. 
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#13
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:36:33 PM
This is what happens when state/Fed govt get involved in handing out mandates.  

It is all great until you disagree with the mandates isn't it?  

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#14
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:42:02 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



i don;t think you understand their position as you don't seem to recognize the women's right issue and the concern about the government getting so involved in personal and medical matters.  the issue is not black and white.  if you are pro life, you are severely infringing on a woman's right to control what happens in her own body and giving the government license to expand its authoiryt in this area.  if you are pro abortion, as i am, you are giving a woman the right to kill cells or a fetus. 

there are obviously arguments for and against that are valid and recognize important rights. 

I believe the woman has a right and responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place. (rape is a different story)

I could comprimise a little and only charge a woman with murder on her second abortion. After the first one she should have learned her lesson.

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#15
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:46:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I believe the woman has a right and responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place. (rape is a different story)

I could comprimise a little and only charge a woman with murder on her second abortion. After the first one she should have learned her lesson.



i would agree that a woman should not get pregnant if she can't take care of a kid.  unfortunately, that's not a world that is anywhere near the one we live in or will ever live in.


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#16
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:48:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:

This is what happens when state/Fed govt get involved in handing out mandates.  

It is all great until you disagree with the mandates isn't it?  


What is this based on.... religion?

Yes I'm opposed to making unjustifiable laws based on religion and nothing else.

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#17
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:49:49 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



i would agree that a woman should not get pregnant if she can't take care of a kid.  unfortunately, that's not a world that is anywhere near the one we live in or will ever live in.


Awesome, so lets address the root of the problem which is in the home. Or even in the education system. I'm for handing out contraceptives in school if thats what it takes.

Lets fix the problem further upstream

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#18
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:51:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:

I'm wondering when it will be time to cut off state funding and special privileges for Churches. And to take this to the next logical step, sue them for religious discrimination justified by their efforts to harm women and draft draconian laws based on their religious beliefs.

How is banning abortion not religious discrimination? 

What about my religious belief that abortions are ok?

Each person should be allowed (by law) to believe whatever they want. As soon as you try to force your beliefs on anybody else, you should be punished (by law).

I would never try to force a religious person to have an abortion. It is just as despicable and indefensible for a religious person to try to force people to not be allowed to have an abortion.

Period. 

rick - This^ 
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#19
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:52:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:


What is this based on.... religion?

Yes I'm opposed to making unjustifiable laws based on religion and nothing else.

Snuffing out a heartbeat is less about religion than you think. You cant have a religion that believes they can murder people.

DO WE OR DO WE NOT CHARGE THE MURDERER OF A PREGNANT WOMAN WITH TWO COUNTS OF MURDER?

Is everyone afraid to answer that question?

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#20
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:53:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



i don;t think you understand their position as you don't seem to recognize the women's right issue and the concern about the government getting so involved in personal and medical matters.  the issue is not black and white.  if you are pro life, you are severely infringing on a woman's right to control what happens in her own body and giving the government license to expand its authoiryt in this area.  if you are pro abortion, as i am, you are giving a woman the right to kill cells or a fetus. 

there are obviously arguments for and against that are valid and recognize important rights. 

Club, thank you for your opinion. I basically agree with this post.
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#21
Posted: 2/17/2012 1:54:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Awesome, so lets address the root of the problem which is in the home. Or even in the education system. I'm for handing out contraceptives in school if thats what it takes.

Lets fix the problem further upstream



i'm with you.  i'm all for anything reasonable we could do to stop unwanted pregancies.  education, making contraceptives readily available, taking teenagers on prison tours to show them what happens to so many kids who were not aborted and born to parents who didn't want them or couldn't take care of them, etc. 
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#22
Posted: 2/17/2012 2:09:43 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Snuffing out a heartbeat is less about religion than you think. You cant have a religion that believes they can murder people.

DO WE OR DO WE NOT CHARGE THE MURDERER OF A PREGNANT WOMAN WITH TWO COUNTS OF MURDER?

Is everyone afraid to answer that question?



honestly, i should know the answer because this is my area, but i don't.  it doesn't come up too often, i guess.  i thought the answer was no but i'm not positive.  when i get more time, i'll look into it.
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#23
Posted: 2/17/2012 2:13:18 PM

Wikipedia

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act, passed in 2004, defines a fetus as a "child in uterus" and a person as being a legal crime victim "if a fetal injury or death occurs during the commission of a federal violent crime."[8] In the U.S., 36 states have laws with more harsh penalties if the victim is murdered while pregnant. Some of these laws defining the fetus as being a person, "for the purpose of criminal prosecution of the offender" (National Conference of State Legislatures, 2008). Laci Peterson, murdered in 2002, is one of the more high-profile homicides.

Currently in the North Carolina Senate, a bill called the SB 353 Unborn Victims of Violence Act is being considered for legislation that would create a separate criminal offense for the death of a fetus when the mother is murdered. The North Carolina Coalition Against Domestic Violence does not support this law for numerous reasons including failure to see violence against the mother as the cause of the fetal death.[9] The Coalition does, however, support the position of the National Network to End Domestic Violence regarding the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.[citation

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#24
Posted: 2/17/2012 2:18:07 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Wikipedia

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act, passed in 2004, defines a fetus as a "child in uterus" and a person as being a legal crime victim "if a fetal injury or death occurs during the commission of a federal violent crime."[8] In the U.S., 36 states have laws with more harsh penalties if the victim is murdered while pregnant. Some of these laws defining the fetus as being a person, "for the purpose of criminal prosecution of the offender" (National Conference of State Legislatures, 2008). Laci Peterson, murdered in 2002, is one of the more high-profile homicides.

Currently in the North Carolina Senate, a bill called the SB 353 Unborn Victims of Violence Act is being considered for legislation that would create a separate criminal offense for the death of a fetus when the mother is murdered. The North Carolina Coalition Against Domestic Violence does not support this law for numerous reasons including failure to see violence against the mother as the cause of the fetal death.[9] The Coalition does, however, support the position of the National Network to End Domestic Violence regarding the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.[citation



the first law is a federal crime where very, very few murders cases are handled.  this is almost always a state issue and i'm not sure too many states allow for two counts of murder against pregnant woman, but i'm not sure.
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#25
Posted: 2/17/2012 2:19:08 PM
again, i'm in favor of abortion, but i wouldn't have a problem with these kinds of laws, not that they really change much.   
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