Gun problems that will remain

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Author: [Penalty Box] Topic: Gun problems that will remain
cd329 PM cd329
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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:15:31 AM

There is more to this, then the govt taking away guns.  This is about our govt trying to have complete 100 percent control over all of us and we cant do anything about it. First Obamacare, now guns.  You see there is a bad pattern developing and as much as some of you dont want to see it, our country is creeping toward becoming a dictatorship type of country.

You have a Governor in NY thinking he can over ride the Constitution and pass bills improperly.   Theres gonna come a point where the politicians are just gonna say there wont be any more elections, we are staying in power.  Yeah sounds far fetched, but thats where we are heading.

You have to open your eyes and see the forest thru the trees.  You have to start thinking, what is the politicians next move.

What govt is doing isnt about guns and making people safer, its about power and control.  They are just using the killing of kids to make their power grab that much easier to accomplish.  Politicians dont give a hoot about saving lives, wake up people.  They care about power, control and filling their pockets with cash.

Stop believing what your told on tv, radio, internet and instead start believing what is actually happening before your own 2 eyes.

I have stated before some things in the Constitution should be changed to deal with our present time, but those changes need to be approved by the people, when it comes to the Constitution, not by politicians with their own selfish agendas.

dl36 PM dl36
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Posted: 1/19/2013 4:10:25 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



Really?

Which statement exactly displays such anger?

I predict Crickets!

im trying to figure out other then in your fantasyland world do I say anger...


this is that making up a lie and then trying to argue against thing that you try to do that people have been talking about...


Its getting to the point that you cant post on a thread with out lying...
Stiln PM Stiln
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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:26:23 PM
cd, I agree I've never been in favor of confiscating every gun from the americans but lets state governments as I have said a MILLION TIMES regulate it.

And let people choose where they want to live, for instance in NY it is nearly impossible to obtain a hand gun, you essentially need a judge to sign off and have policemen interview family members etc.... It's a long drawn out process.

However in some place like Ohio one can open carry legally. There is a huge difference from concealed carry and open carry.
bowlslit PM bowlslit
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Posted: 1/19/2013 12:49:37 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dl36:



perhaps google is an improvement from fantasyland,,,,

hes still seems to be upset since you owned him that thread where he got caught in yet another lie by calling him out on his 80% of all citizens own guns BS...





Deflection by semantics. Lets try this again because we have an adult that prefers to act like a juvenile (DL36)

Show me where I show signs of being upset?
OnlyGod PM OnlyGod
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Posted: 1/19/2013 7:59:10 PM
Your first point makes no sense to me.  It's appears you are saying that the background check sould be necessary at a gun show ?  Or criminals don't shop at gunshows ?
Stiln PM Stiln
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Posted: 1/20/2013 11:15:12 AM
I'm saying guns shows have to be accounted for because 40% of firearms in this country are bought through secondary sellers and there aren't any background checks.

Also a criminal could just as easily go to a gun show and buy a gun without any check or though someone they know which can't be regulated because once a lawful citizen buys the gun he can do whatever it is he wants with it, you see what I'm saying? Government can't do anything about that.
rick3117 PM rick3117
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Posted: 1/20/2013 12:04:39 PM
I am highly skeptical of the 40% stat.  

Not even 40% of purchases at a gun show go without a background check.  

Is there some place where they have gun shows with vendors that Dont process background checks?  

Because individual sales are relatively small in number compared to purchases from vendors.  

Any time a gun is ordered online, it has to be shipped to an FFL, who in turn runs the background check before they can legally hand over the gun (which is already bought).  

When I was short on our mortgage after my daughter was born, I took my AR in to a pawn shop to get a loan.  When I returned to claim the gun that I had brought in they had to run a background check.  

I know that personal sale of firearms seems to be some sort of huge problem, but I am very wary of legislation that is moving toward a registry.  

I have heard ideas floated by guys like Rham Emanuel, Cass Sunstein, Eric Holder, Diane Feinstein and their ilk that want to severely punish gun owners, and tax the crap out of every thing from the firearm itself, to some sort of asinine tax on ammunition.  There has even been an idea floated after the New York shenanigans that there should be a registry akin to sex offender's registry.  

The anti gun crowd is not looking for reasonable regulations.  They are looking at punitive taxation, bans, and unreasonable legislation.  
I think they tipped their hand when they came out swinging and demonizing organizations like the NRA, Gun owners of America and started really demonizing gun owners.  
cd329 PM cd329
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Posted: 1/20/2013 1:13:11 PM

These politicians are trying to make every law abidding gun owner as guilty as the nut jobs who go on these shooting sprees and that is just wrong.

I said it already, this is more about the politiicans wanting the ability to have total control over all of us, then about just taking guns away.  This way they can do whatever they want to do and not have to worry about anybody having the ability to remove them physically from office or harming them.  Its about total control.  Who knows what other crazy stuff they want to ram down our throats but are afraid to do it because of a armed population

Second Amendment basically holds all the other Amendments together

SarasotaSlim PM SarasotaSlim
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Posted: 1/20/2013 1:52:12 PM
 Register guns,but not illegal aliens ..
ClubDirt PM ClubDirt
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Posted: 1/20/2013 2:20:21 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

 Register guns,but not illegal aliens ..



guns don't help rightwing company executives make huge profits by reducing the cost of labor and all that goes with it.  gun laws help the nra and foxnews convince people that all of their guns will get taken away so they buy more and gun and ammo manufacturers make record profits.  it makes sense to me.
Stiln PM Stiln
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Posted: 1/20/2013 3:39:08 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:

I am highly skeptical of the 40% stat.  

Not even 40% of purchases at a gun show go without a background check.  

Is there some place where they have gun shows with vendors that Dont process background checks?  

Because individual sales are relatively small in number compared to purchases from vendors.  

Any time a gun is ordered online, it has to be shipped to an FFL, who in turn runs the background check before they can legally hand over the gun (which is already bought).  

When I was short on our mortgage after my daughter was born, I took my AR in to a pawn shop to get a loan.  When I returned to claim the gun that I had brought in they had to run a background check.  

I know that personal sale of firearms seems to be some sort of huge problem, but I am very wary of legislation that is moving toward a registry.  

I have heard ideas floated by guys like Rham Emanuel, Cass Sunstein, Eric Holder, Diane Feinstein and their ilk that want to severely punish gun owners, and tax the crap out of every thing from the firearm itself, to some sort of asinine tax on ammunition.  There has even been an idea floated after the New York shenanigans that there should be a registry akin to sex offender's registry.  

The anti gun crowd is not looking for reasonable regulations.  They are looking at punitive taxation, bans, and unreasonable legislation.  
I think they tipped their hand when they came out swinging and demonizing organizations like the NRA, Gun owners of America and started really demonizing gun owners.  


Rick the 40% stat means secondary sellers. A gun show merely qualifies as a secondary seller because of the lack of a required background check. So 40% also applies to buying a gun on 3rd party site if craiglist or backpage sells guns.

Also look at the recent shootings and even the Columbine shootings which is referred to as the "tragedy that changed America's School."  Clebold and Harris had their friends buy guns from a gun show and then hand them down to them....

We will never be able to prevent people that are mentally ill from purchasing guns from other private individuals where background checks are not conducted. Because the laws in most states say that you can sell a fire arm to another person as long as they are 21 years of age and you do not have to conduct a background check obviously. And this problem here will never be able to be fixed even if the state of feds require these private individuals to conduct checks

Read my post 22.

And again I can't reiterate this enough because it still seems like people don't understand what I'm saying here. I have NEVER been for TAKING away guns from citizens or have the Federal Government make it nearly impossible to buy a gun. I have been saying since these guns threads starting sprouting up on covers that we should let the STATE GOVERNMENTS deal with gun regulations.
rick3117 PM rick3117
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Posted: 1/20/2013 4:20:18 PM
I have never heard of a gun show where the vendors were not required to do a background check. 

The only transaction I know of where someone can get around a background check is a "straw purchase"  or individual sale. 

If you are a firearms dealer, carry an FFL license (as you would have to to be able to set up at a gun show), then you must process a background check for every transaction .  

So it does not hurt the gun show to demand background checks, all of the legitimate businesses are doing them.  

If someone brings a gun into a gun show, I do not see how it would be difficult to have one of the vendors process a background check for a small commission (say $15).  It would help the seller as well if they could provide a receipt of the transaction, and background check for the seller's record. 

That is a completely reasonable thing to do.  

Problem is,  anti-gunners want to take it a step further and demand a registry for gun owners.  


Stiln PM Stiln
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Posted: 1/20/2013 4:30:39 PM
Depends on the state some states don't require gun shows to abide by certain background checks. Sometimes it even depends on the county within the state.

And I think a piece of legislation that requires gun shows to conduct these background checks wouldn't hurt anyone like you said.

But even more so the conduct at gun shows sometimes is bad..

Of course there are isolated cases of these instances but people need to be a little more friggin smart when handling a firearm because that outcome could have been far worse. That is why ammunition is not sold inside of the event........

Nonetheless rick what do you think this country can do about the suicide rates that is directly a result of hand guns being in the homes where teenagers have easy access to them?

http://news.yahoo.com/three-hurt-firearm-accident-north-carolina-gun-show-234451916.html
rick3117 PM rick3117
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Posted: 1/20/2013 4:56:39 PM
I guess I would be in the camp that believes suicide is a mental health problem not a gun problem. 

It would be analogous to tackling the obesity problem through fork and spoon control measures. 

There are underlying issues in our society, and in the way that we treat mental health in this country.  


Stiln PM Stiln
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Posted: 1/20/2013 5:07:52 PM
Yeah what I think should be done and I think guns have now become a public health problem but I think that Obama and future administrations should deeply subsidize mental health facilities and provide more screening schools possibly and while I don't think all gun owners should be subject to additional screening and training if they have children, something needs to be done, I don't know what necessarily  but I think it has to involve the owners of hand guns and their family. Because those CAP laws like I said in post 22 defeat the whole purpose of self protection and easy access, you know what I'm saying?

Many issues to hash out.

ClubDirt PM ClubDirt
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Posted: 1/20/2013 5:08:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117:

I guess I would be in the camp that believes suicide is a mental health problem not a gun problem. 

It would be analogous to tackling the obesity problem through fork and spoon control measures. 

There are underlying issues in our society, and in the way that we treat mental health in this country.  




well, it's good to know that rightwingers at least appreciate the importance of diagnosing mental health problems and making sure there is funding and access for treatment if there are going to be guns everywhere.  that's why rightwingers were in favor of obamacare.  of wait, nevermind.  i forgot that to the rightwinger, sanctity of life begins and ends with controlling women.


Stiln PM Stiln
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Posted: 1/20/2013 5:12:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



well, it's good to know that rightwingers at least appreciate the importance of diagnosing mental health problems and making sure there is funding and access for treatment if there are going to be guns everywhere.  that's why rightwingers were in favor of obamacare.  of wait, nevermind.  i forgot that to the rightwinger, sanctity of life begins and ends with controlling women.






Truth.... What do you say to that rick??
rick3117 PM rick3117
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Posted: 1/20/2013 5:49:12 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:





Truth.... What do you say to that rick??

All Conservatives are essentially the same. 
Just as all blacks and all Chinese. 

I think the comment is dead on.  I hate women, and hate funding mental health resources.  

I also kill puppies. 




ClubDirt PM ClubDirt
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Posted: 1/20/2013 6:06:05 PM
rick isn't a rightwinger, at least as i use the word.  and to the eetent rick is a conservative, he's definitely not a rightwinger or your typical republican. 
Stiln PM Stiln
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Posted: 1/20/2013 6:09:18 PM
I  know haha. It's just funny.
cd329 PM cd329
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Posted: 1/20/2013 6:46:29 PM
He better not be killing puppies especially goldens
rick3117 PM rick3117
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Posted: 1/20/2013 7:39:47 PM
I had a Golden when I was a kid. Great Dog.  

OnlyGod PM OnlyGod
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Posted: 1/20/2013 7:51:09 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:

I'm saying guns shows have to be accounted for because 40% of firearms in this country are bought through secondary sellers and there aren't any background checks.

Also a criminal could just as easily go to a gun show and buy a gun without any check or though someone they know which can't be regulated because once a lawful citizen buys the gun he can do whatever it is he wants with it, you see what I'm saying? Government can't do anything about that.


OK thanks for clarifying good discussion.
UberDog PM UberDog
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Posted: 1/20/2013 9:36:54 PM

Some problems can't be solved through bans or legislation.

http://images.google.com/imgres?q=weak+biceps&num=10&hl=en&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=I1sFJDfFlAmEsM:&imgrefurl=http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/1566-748912&docid=Lzb5x_jVkGm_TM&imgurl=http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1566/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1566-748912.jpg&w=350&h=350&ei=h6n8UImDMIODqgHSxYH4DQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=346&vpy=136&dur=2814&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=168&ty=142&sig=100987704088851408328&page=2&tbnh=148&tbnw=144&start=19&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:22,s:0,i:155&biw=1249&bih=549

rick3117 PM rick3117
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Posted: 1/20/2013 9:46:56 PM

Breitbart-While presenting a litany of gun control measures for Congress to consider, President Obama suggested that “40% of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check.”

In other words, 40% of gun sales are private.

While he was still speaking, one of my friends texted me and asked: “How does Obama know how many guns are sold privately? The fact that it’s ‘private’ means it’s not public.”

So I started looking through databases for references to this figure, and I soon found myself reading a 2011 study by NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg titled, “Point, Click, Fire: An Investigation Into Illegal Online Gun Sales.”

According to the study, “40% of guns are sold through private sellers.” Moreover, the study claims that “these sales—which take place in many venues, including gun shows and, increasingly, on the internet… fuel the black market for illegal guns.”

Many parts of this assertion are factually flawed or, at the least, very misleading.

First off, the figure of 40% doesn’t represent new guns but guns already in circulation, which are being resold on a secondary basis. The intimation that 40% of new guns are being sold illegally is simply myth-making at best, lying at worst.

What’s really happening is that people who think like Bloomberg and Obama are guessing that a certain percentage of firearms in the hands of Americans have no paperwork on them because their original sale predates background checks. Thus, their goal is to seal off avenues for private sales in order to force Americans to enter those guns into the system.

As for selling guns on the Internet to avoid background checks, that’s another stretch. If a citizen buys a gun from a store via the internet, that gun has to be shipped from a dealer with an Federal Firearms License (FFL) to another dealer with a FFL.

In other words, if a resident of Denver bought a gun from a store in Tampa, the FFL in Tampa would send the gun to an FFL in Denver. Once it arrived, the buyer would pay a fee for shipping, taxes on the gun, as well as any mark-up for services. He would also have to submit to a back-ground check just as if he had bought the gun off a shelf in Denver.

The idea that 40% of gun sales are private is meant to confuse Americans and make them think there is a breakdown in the system somewhere. But there’s not.

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