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Author: [Penalty Box] Topic: Trayvon the innocent do goody colored boy --- BS
14daroad send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#51
Posted: 5/17/2012 6:55:19 PM

Cops, Witnesses Back Up George Zimmerman's Version of Trayvon Martin Shooting


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#52
Posted: 5/17/2012 6:58:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jpero:



Weed stays in your system for 30 days. Means absolutely nothing. WOW a 17 year old, or how ever old, smoked marijuana. OMG call the authorities. Get your Lorcin 380s out and eliminate all these teens who smoke weed.

No weed doesn't necessarily stay in your system for 30 days.

Some THC metabolites have an elimination half-life of 20 hours. However, some are stored in body fat and have a elimination half-life of 10 to 13 days. Most researchers agree that urine tests for marijuana can detect the presence of the drug in the body for up to 13 days.
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#53
Posted: 5/17/2012 6:59:47 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jpero:



There is someone who can tell Martin's side. His GF was on the phone with him while he was being chased and while the incident took place.

There are also police phone call and neighbors who said they heard a young boy screaming for help.

Z is going to have ot be careful with what story he wants to go with being there was a phone call with someone on the other end while the whole incident unfolded.

What matters is what happened after the fight started.  Period.  You really think they are going to get enough from the cell phone to pove that Z walked up, started arguing with Martin and spontaneously started punching him?  

Besides, what matters is WHETHER Z TRULY THOUGHT HIS LIFE MIGHT BE IN DANGER.  THAT'S IT.  

Good luck if you think they are going to be able to refute Z's account based some screams that were heard and the conversation with the girlfriend.  It's not happening.  Because all Z has to do is show that he had a reasonable belief his life was in danger....even if that split second before he shot him.  That's it.  

Do you think the prosecution is going to be able to show that it wasn't beyond a reasonable doubt?  

I'm not saying he's not guilty.  What matters is what can be proven.  
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#54
Posted: 5/17/2012 7:05:26 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:


No weed doesn't necessarily stay in your system for 30 days.

Some THC metabolites have an elimination half-life of 20 hours. However, some are stored in body fat and have a elimination half-life of 10 to 13 days. Most researchers agree that urine tests for marijuana can detect the presence of the drug in the body for up to 13 days.


It all depends on your usage. If you never smoke then smoke it will be out of your system in a week. If you smoke a couple times a week it will be out of your system in 2-3 weeks. If you are a heavy smoker it will stay with you for 30 days.

Why do you think people on probation use coke and pills and herion? That stuff is out of your system in 2 days. It actually bogus for drug testing when on probation because all it does is cause the people who use drugs to go to more hardcore drugs so they can continue to use and not worry about testing positive.
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#55
Posted: 5/17/2012 7:11:09 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jpero:

So if I punch someone their life is threatened and they are endangered?

But if I stalk someone for quite some time and then chase after them and approach them... that person might not feel their life is endangered?? And then you want that person who was being stalked and chased to tell this older, bigger, random guy where he lives and etc??

Hutch that doesn't make any sense. IF the state charged Z with 2nd degree murder there is definitely some evidence that will show Z never had his life in danger and there might be more wounds to Martin than just a gunshot wound.

I can't help it if you don't get it.  If I punch you in the face once at a bar, turn the other way, and you shoot me, that don't fly.

We will see what evidence the prosecution has.  From what I've read, you show me how they are going to prove that Z didn't have a legit fear for his life.  

If what I'm reading is right, this wasn't a 2 second little tussle.  If someone heard 14 screams this thing went on for a while.  

I'm already on the record, I think this was two guys who got into it verbally, it escalated, and they started fighting.  No idea who threw the first punch.  What I'm saying it is my contention that Martin could have easily just let Zimmerman do his manly thing....tough neighborhood watch guy keeping the peace.  I don't think Z went over to kill him.  I think he went over to flex his muscles.  I think Martin could have just said, "yes sir, I'm just heading home.  Not up to anything."  

I have been in a situation like that.  I got to close to his motorcycle when I was parking my car.  Never touched it, but he came after me like nothing I ever have seen.  Screaming in my face.  You know what I did.  I apologized like a little weakling....about 5 times until he finally calmed down.  

Did he deserve an apology?   Hell no.  He deserved a beating.  But was I able to get out of the situation without a scratch?  Damn right. I had no idea if he had a gun.

That's what I'm talking about.  
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#56
Posted: 5/17/2012 7:14:00 PM
Point of the motorcycle story is that I took responsibility to diffuse the situation knowing this guy just wanted his pound of flesh and that what good would an argument do when I would no longer have ANY control over what he might do next.  
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#57
Posted: 5/17/2012 7:16:38 PM
I'm guessing Z was looking for a little respect and I personally think Martin would be alive if he had given it to him.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'm guessing if you gave Martin another chance, he'd agree with me rather than be dead.
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#58
Posted: 5/17/2012 7:17:13 PM

Self defense.

If you're going to start a fight be prepared for anything.

Draw, warn and then shoot if absolutely necessary to defend yourself against an assault.

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#59
Posted: 5/17/2012 7:29:34 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

I'm guessing Z was looking for a little respect and I personally think Martin would be alive if he had given it to him.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'm guessing if you gave Martin another chance, he'd agree with me rather than be dead.

I agree hutch. Guessing the verbal assault began from this kid and words were exchanged. Martin goes physically ape shot on him and Zimmerman blows him away in self defense..

"Mr. Zimmerman, you're free to go."

 

 

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#60
Posted: 5/17/2012 7:44:59 PM
Remember, in the 911 tape, George Zimmerman reported to the police dispatcher that Martin seemed suspicious to him because it seemed Martin was “on drugs or something."

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#61
Posted: 5/17/2012 8:32:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

Remember, in the 911 tape, George Zimmerman reported to the police dispatcher that Martin seemed suspicious to him because it seemed Martin was “on drugs or something."

Its obvious that you have no clue how herbs affect the mind. Have you ever taken a puff?
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#62
Posted: 5/17/2012 9:05:47 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

SANFORD, Fla. --Trayvon Martin, the Florida teen shot and killed by former neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman in February, had drugs in his system at the time of his death, ABC News reported Thursday.

Martin's autopsy report shows traces of the drug THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, were found in Martin's blood and urine, according to ABC News.

The report came shortly after prosecutors announced they would be releasing hundreds of documents in the case to the public Thursday.







wow the active element in marijuana in his system
it was only a matter of time b4 he killed AND ate a whole family 

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#63
Posted: 5/17/2012 9:15:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by No_Contest:

Its obvious that you have no clue how herbs affect the mind. Have you ever taken a puff?


You mean like this?

Former Strikeforce champion Diaz tested positive for marijuana metabolites following his controversial five-round clash with former WEC titleholder Condit at this past weekend's UFC 143 event.

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#64
Posted: 5/17/2012 9:57:13 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


I can't help it if you don't get it.  If I punch you in the face once at a bar, turn the other way, and you shoot me, that don't fly.

We will see what evidence the prosecution has.  From what I've read, you show me how they are going to prove that Z didn't have a legit fear for his life.  

If what I'm reading is right, this wasn't a 2 second little tussle.  If someone heard 14 screams this thing went on for a while.  

I'm already on the record, I think this was two guys who got into it verbally, it escalated, and they started fighting.  No idea who threw the first punch.  What I'm saying it is my contention that Martin could have easily just let Zimmerman do his manly thing....tough neighborhood watch guy keeping the peace.  I don't think Z went over to kill him.  I think he went over to flex his muscles.  I think Martin could have just said, "yes sir, I'm just heading home.  Not up to anything."  

I have been in a situation like that.  I got to close to his motorcycle when I was parking my car.  Never touched it, but he came after me like nothing I ever have seen.  Screaming in my face.  You know what I did.  I apologized like a little weakling....about 5 times until he finally calmed down.  

Did he deserve an apology?   Hell no.  He deserved a beating.  But was I able to get out of the situation without a scratch?  Damn right. I had no idea if he had a gun.

That's what I'm talking about.  

Hutch -- I agree with everything you said. I also have a feeling that it probably went down as you say in your post. I think though that another level can be added to your hypothetical scenario.

1) Verbal words exchanged
2) at this point it would of been easy / smart for Martin to just walk away and avoid confrontation. 

But the same could also be said about Zimmerman. That is that he could of just made his presence known and told Martin that he was being watched and the cops are on their way. At this point he also could of avoided further confrontation (in the same manner that you suggest Martin could of).

3) obviously this did not occur and a fight ensued (no idea who initiated it).

but in your hypothetical scenario I could also see that

4) Zimmerman got his behind handed to him (this I think we all agree with).

5) This did not sit well with him and he shot Martin.

Of course this is just hypothetical. Zimmerman could of honestly felt threatened and had no other resort but I think we all agree that there is a fine line between getting your behind kicked and feeling threatened for your life. And as you point out it will be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not threatened.  



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#65
Posted: 5/17/2012 10:51:31 PM
if you punched a cop in the face HE would shoot you.
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#66
Posted: 5/17/2012 11:13:41 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


I bring it up as often is possible on purpose.  It would make me happy if every single US citizen who qualified would carry a gun.  I encourage people to go through the course all the time.  

I don't recall one time in my life where I thought to myself...." If only I had a gun with me right now " 

Must be a Canadian thing.

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#67
Posted: 5/17/2012 11:29:28 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

SANFORD, Fla. --Trayvon Martin, the Florida teen shot and killed by former neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman in February, had drugs in his system at the time of his death, ABC News reported Thursday.

Martin's autopsy report shows traces of the drug THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, were found in Martin's blood and urine, according to ABC News.

The report came shortly after prosecutors announced they would be releasing hundreds of documents in the case to the public Thursday.




I have to agree with people who say that you seem to have no experience with marijuana. If Martin was stoned at the time then he would be a lot less likely to instigate any type of altercation with Zimmerman. However, if Zimmerman had instigated the issue then I could see Martin taking exception to it. 

Weed does stay in people's system depending on how often they use it. He may or may have not been high at the time of the incident. 

The fact that you brought this up though would either suggest that Martin was stoned and less likely to instigate. Or it was just in his system and is essentially a non issue in this matter. 

There are lots people in this country with weed in there systems that walk though neighborhoods daily. Some of them are even black. Some of them may even walk by a house or two. I'm still not sure how that correlates to them deserving to die. 

Not only that, since when is getting your behind kicked by a kid justification for shooting someone. I'm sure lots of people lose fights on a daily basis, some of them probably pretty bad. Not everyone pulls a gun in self defense though. 

I don't know about most people but if I have to carry a gun with me to go to the store it's because I believe I will have a reason to use it. And if someone were to have that belief then I think they would look for the slightest reason to use it. 

I don't think Trayvon Martin is some sort of saint that led an innocent life and never did anything wrong. My thinking is somewhat along the same lines as yours and most others in this forum. 

Martin probably was doing something suspicious, however I have yet to see where he was committing a crime with the exception of possible trespass. I think Zimmerman, the self proclaimed neighborhood watch, confronted him and asked what he was doing. I do think Martin took exception to this line of questioning. He does seem to have an attitude, which isn't surprising being a 17 year old minority. Who knows who touched who first. That is going to be a one sided story for eternity at this point. What we do know is that Zimmerman was getting his behind pummeled and had to resort to using a gun because of it. 

I'm not sure of the legality of the stand your ground law in Florida. I don't even know if Zimmerman should be charged with anything or not. But he isn't innocent in all of this. This is going to set some absolutely terrible presidence for people getting beat up in a fight. It basically says if you're losing a fight resort to shooting the guy you're fighting. 
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#68
Posted: 5/17/2012 11:35:54 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


What matters is what happened after the fight started.  Period.  You really think they are going to get enough from the cell phone to pove that Z walked up, started arguing with Martin and spontaneously started punching him?  

Besides, what matters is WHETHER Z TRULY THOUGHT HIS LIFE MIGHT BE IN DANGER.  THAT'S IT.  

Good luck if you think they are going to be able to refute Z's account based some screams that were heard and the conversation with the girlfriend.  It's not happening.  Because all Z has to do is show that he had a reasonable belief his life was in danger....even if that split second before he shot him.  That's it.  

Do you think the prosecution is going to be able to show that it wasn't beyond a reasonable doubt?  

I'm not saying he's not guilty.  What matters is what can be proven.  

I agree with your last sentence. I also agree with this being determined by whether Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. My thinking is if he was conscious though, it wasn't in danger. I'm pretty sure he had his wits about him even if he was getting pummeled. I know we will never know the truth but what if Zimmerman threw the first punch or even grabbed Martin as he tried to walk away? I know those are scenarios we will never know the truth to but it's really sending a bad message by allowing this. 

I just think this is going to set a horrible standard from here on out for people that are losing fights. It basically is saying if you are losing a fight and feel threatened you can shoot your way out of it. Then you start getting into all sorts of hypothetical's like what if a stray had hit an innocent bystander? Etc. 
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#69
Posted: 5/17/2012 11:37:10 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:


Hutch -- I agree with everything you said. I also have a feeling that it probably went down as you say in your post. I think though that another level can be added to your hypothetical scenario.

1) Verbal words exchanged
2) at this point it would of been easy / smart for Martin to just walk away and avoid confrontation. 

But the same could also be said about Zimmerman. That is that he could of just made his presence known and told Martin that he was being watched and the cops are on their way. At this point he also could of avoided further confrontation (in the same manner that you suggest Martin could of).

3) obviously this did not occur and a fight ensued (no idea who initiated it).

but in your hypothetical scenario I could also see that

4) Zimmerman got his behind handed to him (this I think we all agree with).

5) This did not sit well with him and he shot Martin.

Of course this is just hypothetical. Zimmerman could of honestly felt threatened and had no other resort but I think we all agree that there is a fine line between getting your behind kicked and feeling threatened for your life. And as you point out it will be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not threatened.  




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#70
Posted: 5/18/2012 12:27:20 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

I don't recall one time in my life where I thought to myself...." If only I had a gun with me right now " 

Must be a Canadian thing.

Neither have I.  If you ever do run into a situation where you need one, you won't have one.  That's your choice.  

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#71
Posted: 5/18/2012 12:34:33 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:


I agree with your last sentence. I also agree with this being determined by whether Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. My thinking is if he was conscious though, it wasn't in danger. I'm pretty sure he had his wits about him even if he was getting pummeled. I know we will never know the truth but what if Zimmerman threw the first punch or even grabbed Martin as he tried to walk away? I know those are scenarios we will never know the truth to but it's really sending a bad message by allowing this. 

I just think this is going to set a horrible standard from here on out for people that are losing fights. It basically is saying if you are losing a fight and feel threatened you can shoot your way out of it. Then you start getting into all sorts of hypothetical's like what if a stray had hit an innocent bystander? Etc. 

Yup, it is a slippery slope.  And it will be interesting as to what evidence they trot out that Zimmerman may have been pre-disposed to violence when he confronted Martin.  It's pretty apparent that he has some racist tendancies at a minimum. 

As for shooting yourself out of a fight, it all comes down to what the evidence says.  If the injuries are nothing but superficial, it's going to be a tough sell for the defense. 

With discovery currently going on, we're starting to see more and more evidence......this thing will ebb and flow as more and more details become known for sure.

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#72
Posted: 5/18/2012 12:40:06 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:


Hutch -- I agree with everything you said. I also have a feeling that it probably went down as you say in your post. I think though that another level can be added to your hypothetical scenario.

1) Verbal words exchanged
2) at this point it would of been easy / smart for Martin to just walk away and avoid confrontation. 

But the same could also be said about Zimmerman. That is that he could of just made his presence known and told Martin that he was being watched and the cops are on their way. At this point he also could of avoided further confrontation (in the same manner that you suggest Martin could of).

3) obviously this did not occur and a fight ensued (no idea who initiated it).

but in your hypothetical scenario I could also see that

4) Zimmerman got his behind handed to him (this I think we all agree with).

5) This did not sit well with him and he shot Martin.

Of course this is just hypothetical. Zimmerman could of honestly felt threatened and had no other resort but I think we all agree that there is a fine line between getting your behind kicked and feeling threatened for your life. And as you point out it will be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not threatened.  

Agree 100%.  I'm not saying it was Martin's fault and also agree with what you said Z SHOULD have done....just tell him the cops are on the way.  But he didn't do that so it would have been nice if Martin had been able to keep a cool head (Z could not). He'd likely be alive if he had....unless Z confronted him knowing he wanted to kill him.  I don't believe that.  I think he just wanted to flex his muscles.

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#73
Posted: 5/18/2012 12:50:50 AM
These 2 guys both attracted a situation based on their state of mentality. One was trying to be a hero, the other a rebellion. That's not a good mix for a peaceful outcome.
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#74
Posted: 5/18/2012 1:08:30 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Neither have I.  If you ever do run into a situation where you need one, you won't have one.  That's your choice.  

If I ever feel that paranoid that I need a gun to leave my house I'll buy one.

Must be a Canadian thing.

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#75
Posted: 5/18/2012 1:25:01 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by coldsnap55:

If I ever feel that paranoid that I need a gun to leave my house I'll buy one.

Must be a Canadian thing.


oh it's definitely a canadian thing.  not that your gov would allow you yoo anyway.  
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