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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: First installment of Crazy Christians for 2013
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#26
Posted: 1/8/2013 1:02:00 PM
religion=guilt=control


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#27
Posted: 1/8/2013 3:17:44 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

onlygod, that's very kind.  me and you need to expose all these bad christians so we can all focus on the good ones and christianity can get a good name.  me, you and tebow will  do it. 


  Hey good man.
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#28
Posted: 1/8/2013 3:22:37 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

religion=guilt=control



prove it.
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#29
Posted: 1/8/2013 7:14:37 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



if agnostics are ones who say, they don't know, then everyone is agnostic because no one knows whether that want to admit it or not.

and everyone is an atheist because an atheist is defined as the rejection of belied in God or gods.  since there are hundreds and hundreds of gods, and i suspect no one believes in all of them, the rejection of one or more of them makes one an atheist, by definition. 

Mate, we have been through this a million times.

Theists and Atheists are BOTH BELIEFS. Atheists cannot prove or do not know a super natural creator is not the cause of the universe, they believe it is not the cause. Theists believe in a supernatural creator of the universe. They are BOTH based on beliefs.

What one needs to do is weigh up the evidences and make a decision as to where the evidence leads to.

In terms of everyone being Atheists, that is simply false. The very definition of God is that he is the creator of the universe/ creator of life, and source of all moral goodness. Christians, Muslims and person which make up the majority of all world religions, essentially believe in the same God (creator of the univers, life and moral goodness). Their arent different Gods, the differences are in how God has revealed himself to us, man has perverted this message, hence the different religions.

That is why wether you are a Christian, person or Muslim, they will tell you they believe in a God who created the universe, life and source of morality, they are effectively the same God. The differences are in how he has revealed himself to us.

 

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#30
Posted: 1/8/2013 10:56:27 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos:

Mate, we have been through this a million times.

Theists and Atheists are BOTH BELIEFS. Atheists cannot prove or do not know a super natural creator is not the cause of the universe, they believe it is not the cause. Theists believe in a supernatural creator of the universe. They are BOTH based on beliefs.

What one needs to do is weigh up the evidences and make a decision as to where the evidence leads to.

In terms of everyone being Atheists, that is simply false. The very definition of God is that he is the creator of the universe/ creator of life, and source of all moral goodness. Christians, Muslims and person which make up the majority of all world religions, essentially believe in the same God (creator of the univers, life and moral goodness). Their arent different Gods, the differences are in how God has revealed himself to us, man has perverted this message, hence the different religions.

That is why wether you are a Christian, person or Muslim, they will tell you they believe in a God who created the universe, life and source of morality, they are effectively the same God. The differences are in how he has revealed himself to us.

 


Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists. Wiki

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#31
Posted: 1/9/2013 12:27:27 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SYSTEM:


Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists. Wiki

Yes, i believe a deity exists, therefore, i am not an atheist with respect to not being a Muslim or a person.

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#32
Posted: 1/9/2013 12:28:46 AM

WHy does the word J.e.w get translated here into "person"?

 

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#33
Posted: 1/9/2013 1:46:30 AM
The confusion is caused by falsely assuming that we are an intelligent species. 
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#34
Posted: 1/9/2013 3:43:01 AM
Most intelligent people were are deists.  It's stupid that atheists believe there is nothing except evolution? This begs the question where did evolution come from? Where did nature laws come from (laws of motion etc). Why do they govern nature? To reject there is something higher than us is stupid... you do not have any inference to the most logical answer! 

On the other hand religions like Christianity and Islam etc have too many self contradictions to their beliefs. People are attracted to religions as their personal god has an emotional attachment to them, which is absurd if you look at the nature of the world. Why are there tsunamis if god is good? Why would an all knowing , all powerful and  just god want you to pray to him? Religious people's answer to these type of questions is ridiculous (if they answer them at all ).

On the other hand we have the atheists who say is no god. Are not even interested where we came from, do we have a purpose being here? They have no foundation on purpose or objective morality. Even worse are the atheists that dismiss we have free will.

The most logical answer is there is a deity. That has created the universe and nature laws. Reason is the highest form of intelligence and this is given to us. Examples of diets - Aristotle, Leibniz , Lincon, Mendeleev , Einstein, Paine, Jefferson. Deism does not need people to pray or have faith, it is the religion/philosophy of reason. If someone can think of something higher than reason, that we have please let me know. 




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#35
Posted: 1/9/2013 11:33:32 AM
this is a rough estimate of how many gods there are or have been.  can you guys list the ones you believe in and the ones you don't?

http://atheism.wikia.com/wiki/How_many_gods%3F

here's a smaller list to work with

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_myth_gods_index.htm#h
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#36
Posted: 1/9/2013 11:49:41 AM
if agnostics are ones who say, they don't know, then everyone is agnostic because no one knows whether that want to admit it or not.
________________

This.  It's called "faith" for a reason.  If you'll recall, many people died believing the world was flat......and that the earth was the center of the universe.  Were these people any less convinced than those who believe in God?  I don't think so.  

To claim to know either way is actually a bit insulting to me.  
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#37
Posted: 1/9/2013 11:51:17 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

religion=guilt=control


I believe this is often the case.  But IMO, the belief (or non-belief) in God and religion are two different topics.  
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#38
Posted: 1/9/2013 11:52:29 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

religion=guilt=control


You are an idiot. Linesman or not ban me or whatever. I am sorry that your simple mind thinks the only reason people "Believe" in something is guilt. You dont know me AT ALL. So your bold prediction here just makes you an idiot. You may know people that are like that or thats what you "Believe"  IT seems to be the argument is about beliefs but you judging me or anyone else doesnt make you any better than these so called "Crazy Christians" You are pitiful!   

Club I apologize for getting this thread going in this direction but I hope you understand my point.
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#39
Posted: 1/9/2013 11:58:13 AM
no worries - -> always welcome, even when you yell at me. 
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#40
Posted: 1/9/2013 11:58:41 AM
NoWorries,

Did I say it was you in this case or did I ask for your blessing on the reply?

In general religion controls members through guilt..so religion=guilt=control

Notice I did not say BELIEF..do you know why I didnt say that or FAITH?

Religion is organized beliefs, structured and run for a larger group. Religion is not inclusive of faith or belief, nor does one need to have religion to HAVE faith and belief.

You are naive to think that the goal of an organized religion is not to have members..you do not have members without said members feeling inclined to attend and participate.

You seem quite insecure with the reply, does that mean your faith and belief system are tied to an organized religion, so my comment offends you?
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#41
Posted: 1/9/2013 1:19:30 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

NoWorries,


Did I say it was you in this case or did I ask for your blessing on the reply?

In general religion controls members through guilt..so religion=guilt=control

Notice I did not say BELIEF..do you know why I didnt say that or FAITH?

Religion is organized beliefs, structured and run for a larger group. Religion is not inclusive of faith or belief, nor does one need to have religion to HAVE faith and belief.

You are naive to think that the goal of an organized religion is not to have members..you do not have members without said members feeling inclined to attend and participate.

You seem quite insecure with the reply, does that mean your faith and belief system are tied to an organized religion, so my comment offends you?
I think you are trying to be crafty with your wording here and not really just being honest so I will tell you about me.
I am a Christian therefore I am "religious" in the common understanding of the meaning. I do not attend a church regularly. I do not worry much about denomination although I do not attend a Catholic church as their beliefs are different than mine. The reason that I reacted so harshly is because you are judging people yet you think that I have beliefs and am religious I have guilt and I need control. Yet if you knew me you would no this is far from the truth. I am not telling you what to think or believe but if you guys (Wall and Club) truly are good people, and I am not saying you are not, you judging me and others lumping "Us" together. I do have a problem with that. It makes me sick that you can have these opinions and state them without truly knowing what your talking about it is just your "Belief"  Correct? So we are back to beliefs and mine are wrong and yours are correct? I mean opinions are like fool everyone has one and most of them stink. BUt I can promise you I will not judge anyone for theirs. I am all for people making this a better world no matter what race, religion, etc. When you guys say these things its similar to Scalabrine and his race issues. Doing no good for anyone in this world.
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#42
Posted: 1/9/2013 1:25:43 PM
no worries, when i make these threads, i am only criticizing the bad ones, not the good ones, so i imagine i'm never talking about you when i make a negative christian thread.

however, i don't understand why more christians aren't doing the same as me.  i'm not a christian.  but if i was, or any other group, and there were these rally bad people doing bad things in the name of my group, i'd like to think i'd be the first to call them out to try and make a good name for my group.  instead, the messenger is the fool and no one else has harsh words for the child molester, the warped guy who hates gays, the priest who rips off the church, etc. 

that i will never understand.  so the show must go on until a christian who wants to clean up his group takes the mantle. 
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#43
Posted: 1/9/2013 1:26:29 PM
I've never seen more generalization and judgement off three words since I started posting here.

Where did I say people or you exactly?

The INSTITUTION of religion pal..not you or your neighbor or your mail carrier.

Wow...


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#44
Posted: 1/9/2013 1:27:34 PM
in that way, religion is so much like politics.  when a republican or democrat does something really stupid or bad, it's all about damage control, can we still win the election, etc.  it's never about cleaning house and getting rid of the bad people.  last election with those republicans saying incredibly stupid garbage about rape was a great example. 
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#45
Posted: 1/9/2013 3:51:52 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by GSP10:

Most intelligent people were are deists.  It's stupid that atheists believe there is nothing except evolution? This begs the question where did evolution come from? Where did nature laws come from (laws of motion etc). Why do they govern nature? To reject there is something higher than us is stupid... you do not have any inference to the most logical answer! 

really? where did your "higher power" come from?

On the other hand religions like Christianity and Islam etc have too many self contradictions to their beliefs. People are attracted to religions as their personal god has an emotional attachment to them, which is absurd if you look at the nature of the world. Why are there tsunamis if god is good? Why would an all knowing , all powerful and  just god want you to pray to him? Religious people's answer to these type of questions is ridiculous (if they answer them at all ).

On the other hand we have the atheists who say is no god. Are not even interested where we came from, do we have a purpose being here? They have no foundation on purpose or objective morality. Even worse are the atheists that dismiss we have free will.

The most logical answer is there is a deity. That has created the universe and nature laws. Reason is the highest form of intelligence and this is given to us. Examples of diets - Aristotle, Leibniz , Lincon, Mendeleev , Einstein, Paine, Jefferson. Deism does not need people to pray or have faith, it is the religion/philosophy of reason. If someone can think of something higher than reason, that we have please let me know. 




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#46
Posted: 1/9/2013 6:17:41 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

I've never seen more generalization and judgement off three words since I started posting here.

Where did I say people or you exactly?

The INSTITUTION of religion pal..not you or your neighbor or your mail carrier.

Wow...


Pot meet kettle? So what I said is generalizing but what you said is not? Really? Think before you make these statements. Its just puzzling how you can judge me but me to call out your statement with generalization is not allowed after your original statement could not generalize any more than it does. So keep posting these as it just shows your level of thought here.
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#47
Posted: 1/9/2013 6:28:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

no worries, when i make these threads, i am only criticizing the bad ones, not the good ones, so i imagine i'm never talking about you when i make a negative christian thread.

however, i don't understand why more christians aren't doing the same as me.  i'm not a christian.  but if i was, or any other group, and there were these rally bad people doing bad things in the name of my group, i'd like to think i'd be the first to call them out to try and make a good name for my group.  instead, the messenger is the fool and no one else has harsh words for the child molester, the warped guy who hates gays, the priest who rips off the church, etc. 

that i will never understand.  so the show must go on until a christian who wants to clean up his group takes the mantle. 
I understand what you are saying and when I was younger I would get pissed but as I have gotten older and hopefully wiser I realize that there is always going to be wackos. If someone is hurting someone ie child molesting etc I would absolutely do whatever I can to make it stop. The problem is there are always going to be criminals that slip thru the cracks in what is a mostly good "Church" But if someone can convince someone else to do whatever to a horse to heal whatever then who is the real idiot? Do I believe in it, no, but me getting pissed would do what? I boy do I hate the money suckers in the "Church" Do i have a problem with a pastor at a church making a good living, absolutely not but guys like Joel Olsteen drive me up the wall. He always says life will be so great and no hard times and always this fake smile it drives me nuts. But what am I gonna do protest at his church? He has millions of followers. But I also believe that if you going to his church helps you better influence the people around you go for it. 

I guess my bottom line is I f up daily, sin, etc but I if I can positively influence those around and make this a better place then what else can I do? I have messed up plenty and I am very confrontational. Its bad and I hate but get caught in the heat of the moment a lot does this make a bad person? I am just saying I think your original article is funny and ridiculous and I would be in here laughing with you I just dont think its necessary to generalize and lump all Christians together.
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#48
Posted: 1/9/2013 6:40:35 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

this is a rough estimate of how many gods there are or have been.  can you guys list the ones you believe in and the ones you don't?

http://atheism.wikia.com/wiki/How_many_gods%3F

here's a smaller list to work with

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_myth_gods_index.htm#h

Arent all these "Gods" to the people ultimately the same creator of the universe? same creator of all life and the source of all moral goodness?

If so, then man has in effect created different names for God due to cultural significance, era, personal gain etc etc.

However, ultimately, the most common element is that they are the creator of the universe, life and source of moral goodness. Giving different names due to culture, man perverting the message, doesnt mean that they are actually different Gods.

A person might be called Robert, Robbie, Bob or even Bobby, depending on a number of factors, doesnt mean they are DIFFERENT people, rather, the same person, just called differently based on a number fo factors...

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#49
Posted: 1/9/2013 7:12:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by NoWorries21:

Pot meet kettle? So what I said is generalizing but what you said is not? Really? Think before you make these statements. Its just puzzling how you can judge me but me to call out your statement with generalization is not allowed after your original statement could not generalize any more than it does. So keep posting these as it just shows your level of thought here.


I am not backing down from my comment. You are the person who made it personal, I dont recall making a single negative remark towards you at any point.

I spoke of the general institution of religion..you went off the cliff with taking personal offense.


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#50
Posted: 1/9/2013 7:30:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:



I am not backing down from my comment. You are the person who made it personal, I dont recall making a single negative remark towards you at any point.

I spoke of the general institution of religion..you went off the cliff with taking personal offense.


And then you accused me of generalizing seriously. I am included in that generalization I made so I am not allowed to defend it? The bottom line is you are making fun or generalizing "Beliefs" with your own "Beliefs"  That is what is so hideous about your statement. Then you defend it by saying I am the one generalizing. Keep showing your true colors. Maybe you need to go hand with Scalabrine?
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