Anyone seen the movie, "Forks Over Knives"?

Forum: Food & Fitness
Author: [Food & Fitness] Topic: Anyone seen the movie, "Forks Over Knives"?
MIZUNO22 PM MIZUNO22
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Posted: 4/25/2012 1:30:42 AM
It's been the #1 documentary movie on Amazon for over a year now.  Excellent!! 
searchwarrant PM searchwarrant
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Posted: 4/25/2012 2:27:44 PM
Brief description?
ad1260 PM ad1260
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Posted: 4/25/2012 8:34:38 PM
I just watched the trailer...looks pretty awesome. Might have to check it out 
squinta1 PM squinta1
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Posted: 4/26/2012 11:44:38 AM
Watched like half of it.... was alright
Posted using a mobile device.
DHass22 PM DHass22
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Posted: 4/27/2012 12:09:16 AM

basically, it encourages a vegan lifestyle to prevent the onset of chronic diseases.  (heart attack, stroke, diabetes, etc.)  Conveys a mountain of evidence to support this way of life, with T. Collin Campbell, author of the best selling book, The China Study, and Caldwell Esselstyn is world renowned for proving that plaque build up on the arterial walls is reverseable via a vegan diet.  Makes a very compelling case for making yourself bulletproof to western disease. 

sharpaction PM sharpaction
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Posted: 4/27/2012 3:09:12 AM
Saw it a few weeks ago. It has good intentions but turns out to be a vegan propaganda documentary. This movie has plenty of bad science, cherry picked data and misleading statistics in it. One example would be T. Colin Campbell and his experiment regarding casein protein which is found in dairy, and its relationship with cancer. He found that if you expose rats to aflatoxin which is a carcinogen, and then feed them either 20% or 5% casein protein, the 20% group develops cancer and the 5% group not as much. Casein causes cancer or allows it to flourish when there are carcinogens present are the conclusions drawn from this study. The makers of the film then switch the term from "casein protein" to "animal protein" then proceed to show a bunch of meat on a grill while still talking about cancer. Here is the problem with this. Casein is only present in dairy and the conclusions can't be applied to all animal protein. This is one example of using bad science to mislead viewers.

The movie also explains that animal protein has some way which is not explained, to promote disease, which plant protein lacks. But Campbell had not identified any mechanism that caused the effects that he observed. He goes on to say "it finally occurred to me that there was no such thing as the mechanism. What we were looking at was a symphony of mechanisms" 

Esselstyn and his vegan diet are likely not the reason for the success of his program. His diet plan is low in sugar and completely eliminates oils, which decrease omega-6 intake. This reduction in omega-6  reduces inflammation and decreases heart disease risk. His program also eliminates junk food such as anything you would find in a convenience store and any type of processed food.  His program allows only 100% whole grain foods which makes it almost impossible to eat things like cereals, pasta, bread, bagels, guy while following his diet. The main starches in his diet are probably starchy vegetables, roots, legumes and grains like wild rice which have not been processed at all.

The movie seems to lump people who have poor nutritional habits with the Western diet emphasizing meat consumption. Eating cakes and donuts has nothing to do with eating meat and eggs yet this documentary lumps them together. 

   
depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 4/30/2012 9:23:31 PM
If you strip everything else out, is there evidence that shows that vegans live longer than non-vegans?
MIZUNO22 PM MIZUNO22
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Posted: 5/3/2012 12:19:22 AM
Yes, 12-15 years on average.  Evidence?  An example would be how the Papua Highlanders eat a plant based diet, with no evidence of cardio vascular disease. (heart attack)  When autopsied, their arteries are clean.  Their #1 cause of death is respiratory/pulminary (lung) issues because of their penchant for smoking.  Source?  Dig into some Caldwell Esselstyn videos on YouTube. 
MIZUNO22 PM MIZUNO22
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Posted: 5/3/2012 12:25:48 AM
Another significant study of evidence would be, "The China Study", a generation in the making.
boberts427 PM boberts427
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Posted: 5/3/2012 5:11:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sharpaction:


The movie seems to lump people who have poor nutritional habits with the Western diet emphasizing meat consumption. Eating cakes and donuts has nothing to do with eating meat and eggs yet this documentary lumps them together. 

   

TRAIN69 PM TRAIN69
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Posted: 5/3/2012 8:41:13 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by MIZUNO22:

Yes, 12-15 years on average.  Evidence?  An example would be how the Papua Highlanders eat a plant based diet, with no evidence of cardio vascular disease. (heart attack)  When autopsied, their arteries are clean.  Their #1 cause of death is respiratory/pulminary (lung) issues because of their penchant for smoking.  Source?  Dig into some Caldwell Esselstyn videos on YouTube. 

Why would you want to live 12-15 years longer if you couldnt eat a steak?

MIZUNO22 PM MIZUNO22
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Posted: 5/4/2012 1:38:01 AM

Because coronary heart disease is a toothless paper tiger, that need never exist.  And if it does exist, it need not progress. 

depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 5/4/2012 8:40:39 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MIZUNO22:

Yes, 12-15 years on average.  Evidence?  An example would be how the Papua Highlanders eat a plant based diet, with no evidence of cardio vascular disease. (heart attack)  When autopsied, their arteries are clean.  Their #1 cause of death is respiratory/pulminary (lung) issues because of their penchant for smoking.  Source?  Dig into some Caldwell Esselstyn videos on YouTube. 


Current life expectancy in US is 78.  So you're saying vegan life expectancy is 90-93 years?  Come on now.
MIZUNO22 PM MIZUNO22
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Posted: 5/5/2012 8:21:28 PM

That's a fact, jack. 

TRAIN69 PM TRAIN69
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Posted: 5/7/2012 10:00:31 AM
Theres really no reason to live past 90. The quality of life is horrible. Thats a fact. (of course there is the rare case, but 99% of those 90+ are miserable every day).
depeche2 PM depeche2
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Posted: 5/7/2012 2:23:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

Theres really no reason to live past 90. The quality of life is horrible. Thats a fact. (of course there is the rare case, but 99% of those 90+ are miserable every day).


I can tell you firsthand this is true.

Vegetarian is fine if that's what you want, but I don't think it's necessary at all.  Just limit fatty red meat and eat a balanced diet with fruits and veggies.  I could give up red meat but I could not give up chicken/turkey.
Jmt908 PM Jmt908
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Posted: 5/8/2012 3:17:17 PM
Great movie, also check out "Fat, sick and nearly dead" - not as informative from a scientific approach but based more on real life accounts on what happens when people cut out junk food, meats, daily fast food crap etc. from their diets.
Coppsguy PM Coppsguy
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Posted: 5/8/2012 11:45:45 PM
Great movie!

Meat is Murder
DHass22 PM DHass22
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Posted: 7/23/2012 1:06:41 AM
Thanks for starting this thread.  Down 17 pounds. 
MIZUNO22 PM MIZUNO22
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Posted: 10/2/2012 12:31:00 AM
Sweet Potatoe Lasagna dish from Engine 2 diet is epic! 
Henry-Lilly PM Henry-Lilly
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Posted: 10/2/2012 9:18:01 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by sharpaction:

Saw it a few weeks ago. It has good intentions but turns out to be a vegan propaganda documentary. This movie has plenty of bad science, cherry picked data and misleading statistics in it. One example would be T. Colin Campbell and his experiment regarding casein protein which is found in dairy, and its relationship with cancer. He found that if you expose rats to aflatoxin which is a carcinogen, and then feed them either 20% or 5% casein protein, the 20% group develops cancer and the 5% group not as much. Casein causes cancer or allows it to flourish when there are carcinogens present are the conclusions drawn from this study. The makers of the film then switch the term from "casein protein" to "animal protein" then proceed to show a bunch of meat on a grill while still talking about cancer. Here is the problem with this. Casein is only present in dairy and the conclusions can't be applied to all animal protein. This is one example of using bad science to mislead viewers.

The movie also explains that animal protein has some way which is not explained, to promote disease, which plant protein lacks. But Campbell had not identified any mechanism that caused the effects that he observed. He goes on to say "it finally occurred to me that there was no such thing as the mechanism. What we were looking at was a symphony of mechanisms" 

Esselstyn and his vegan diet are likely not the reason for the success of his program. His diet plan is low in sugar and completely eliminates oils, which decrease omega-6 intake. This reduction in omega-6  reduces inflammation and decreases heart disease risk. His program also eliminates junk food such as anything you would find in a convenience store and any type of processed food.  His program allows only 100% whole grain foods which makes it almost impossible to eat things like cereals, pasta, bread, bagels, guy while following his diet. The main starches in his diet are probably starchy vegetables, roots, legumes and grains like wild rice which have not been processed at all.

The movie seems to lump people who have poor nutritional habits with the Western diet emphasizing meat consumption. Eating cakes and donuts has nothing to do with eating meat and eggs yet this documentary lumps them together. 

   



DHass22 PM DHass22
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Posted: 12/30/2012 6:03:35 AM
I'm now down 51 pounds, feel great, and don't have a single bad thing to say about the approach of Forks Over Knives, & the Engine 2 Diet. 
DHass22 PM DHass22
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Posted: 9/18/2013 4:33:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MIZUNO22:

It's been the #1 documentary movie on Amazon for over a year now.  Excellent!! 
Still the #1 documentary on Amazon for 3+ years running.
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