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Author: [Politics] Topic: George Zimmerman Case Discovery
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#176
Posted: 5/23/2012 4:37:26 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

Trouble is, that's not what Z said. In his version, he said Martin came up from behind & the side as he was goin back to his car & said something to the effect of "you got a problem, homie" to which he replied "no' & then T supposedly said "well, now you do" & then sucker punched him. And also something like, "now you're gonna die". Total bs imo -

Z had serious anger probs & was also prejudiced & overzealous to say the least. The # of 911 calls, & some of his aquantainces as well as some of his past co-workers & neighbors all attest to that. And in his 911 call, he shows that he thought T was already up to no good & that he was going to try to stop another fool who always gets away.

 Trayvon was no angel & he may have liked to play the cool, tough gangsta type which so many do these days, but he was well-liked, not known for getting into fights at school & had never even been arrested. And in the jewelery/screwdriver deal, he was only questioned, not arrested & they never even called his parents or school about it so they must have believed him. 

How can a person that tutors young black students be prejudice? He did have anger problems and went to anger management.

You hold onto the parts of the story that don't matter. Zimmermans claims could still be true about what Trayvon said to him as well as the girlfriends claims. We'll never know for sure and it doesn't matter anyway.

What matters is who turned the verbal confrontation into a physical one. Thats it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Zimmerman could be the most angry person in the friggin world but if he never started the physical fight to begin with it means NOTHING. Why do you not get that simple concept?

What am I missing?

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#177
Posted: 5/23/2012 4:52:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

Maybe, but in this case it doesn't tell the story of what happened exactly or the how & why.


Actually it does.
Every bit of evidence supports Zimmerman's account of the event.
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#178
Posted: 5/23/2012 5:11:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

Maybe, but in this case it doesn't tell the story of what happened exactly or the how & why.


How in the world can you possibly know this?  It might....it might not. But how can you know that the evidence doesn't tell the story? You can't. 

And for what it's worth, the evidence is what is going to be looked at by the jury.  

If you were on trial, would you prefer that a jury guess as to what happened or look at the evidence?  

I honestly can't believe some people here.  
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#179
Posted: 5/23/2012 5:16:55 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

How can a person that tutors young black students be prejudice? He did have anger problems and went to anger management.

You hold onto the parts of the story that don't matter. Zimmermans claims could still be true about what Trayvon said to him as well as the girlfriends claims. We'll never know for sure and it doesn't matter anyway.

What matters is who turned the verbal confrontation into a physical one. Thats it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Zimmerman could be the most angry person in the friggin world but if he never started the physical fight to begin with it means NOTHING. Why do you not get that simple concept?

What am I missing?


Actually what matters is if Z had a legitimate concern that his life may be in danger or he was in danger of great bodily harm.  

And they will look at 2 things:  1.  Physical evidence (Z's injuries....his contention that he was on his back being beaten up by M, etc.).  2. Eyewitness testimony:  And Z is the only one alive who was there at the scene.  

All this talk about who approached who....M's drug use.....who started the fight.  MEANINGLESS.

The only one who can testify as to who started the fight is Z.  What way do you think that is going to go?  


I honestly don't know what happened, but from a LEGAL standpoint, Z is laughing his behind off based on what information is available at this point.  


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#180
Posted: 5/23/2012 5:21:31 PM
What matters is who turned the verbal confrontation into a physical one. Thats it. What is so hard to understand about that?
_________________

This is why this doesn't matter:

You make fun of a guy in a bar.  He punches you in the face one time and goes back to talking to his friends.  You pull a gun, shoot, and kill him.  You're not getting off on self defense even though he was the one who started the physical confrontation.  

Different scenario:  You and a guy argue.....he punches you in the face, jumps on top of you and starts pounding your head against the floor.  You think he might be trying to kill you so you pull your gun, shoot, and kill him.  It's very likely you could get off on self defense.

See the difference?  


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#181
Posted: 5/23/2012 5:26:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

What matters is who turned the verbal confrontation into a physical one. Thats it. What is so hard to understand about that?
_________________

This is why this doesn't matter:

You make fun of a guy in a bar.  He punches you in the face one time and goes back to talking to his friends.  You pull a gun, shoot, and kill him.  You're not getting off on self defense even though he was the one who started the physical confrontation.  

Different scenario:  You and a guy argue.....he punches you in the face, jumps on top of you and starts pounding your head against the floor.  You think he might be trying to kill you so you pull your gun, shoot, and kill him.  It's very likely you could get off on self defense.

See the difference?  


Of course it matters because we have heard zero evidence or witness statements to show that Trayvon let up at all...until the gun shot was heard. That makes this case resemble 'different scenario'

If we had a hint of somthing stating that Trayvon let up at some point before he was shot then you would be absolutely correct.

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#182
Posted: 5/23/2012 5:28:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

What matters is who turned the verbal confrontation into a physical one. Thats it. What is so hard to understand about that?
_________________

This is why this doesn't matter:

You make fun of a guy in a bar.  He punches you in the face one time and goes back to talking to his friends.  You pull a gun, shoot, and kill him.  You're not getting off on self defense even though he was the one who started the physical confrontation.  

Different scenario:  You and a guy argue.....he punches you in the face, jumps on top of you and starts pounding your head against the floor.  You think he might be trying to kill you so you pull your gun, shoot, and kill him.  It's very likely you could get off on self defense.

See the difference?  


...further...we've yet to hear any evidence or witness statements to show that Zimmerman caused any physical harm to Trayvon other than the gunshot.

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#183
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:04:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

...further...we've yet to hear any evidence or witness statements to show that Zimmerman caused any physical harm to Trayvon other than the gunshot.

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#184
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:12:24 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

...further...we've yet to hear any evidence or witness statements to show that Zimmerman caused any physical harm to Trayvon

other than the gunshot.

Intellect isn't your strongsuit is it.

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#185
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:29:28 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


How in the world can you possibly know this?  It might....it might not. But how can you know that the evidence doesn't tell the story? You can't. 

And for what it's worth, the evidence is what is going to be looked at by the jury.  

If you were on trial, would you prefer that a jury guess as to what happened or look at the evidence?  

I honestly can't believe some people here.  

My thoughts about it are obviously just my opinions based on what I know & have read. Not a prediction of a legal outcome. And many times the evidence alone does not paint a true picture of what actually happened & where guilt & true justice lies -

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#186
Posted: 5/23/2012 8:49:31 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

My thoughts about it are obviously just my opinions based on what I know & have read. Not a prediction of a legal outcome. And many times the evidence alone does not paint a true picture of what actually happened & where guilt & true justice lies -



I don't understand.

You are ignoring the available evidence to keep asserting there is some other picture. Why?

Again, why didn't Martin just run back to the townhouse?

And, if Martin's girlfriend actually hear part of this encounter and it was so scary, why did she contact nobody in the Martin family, no law enforcement agency,  no attorney, or nobody in the media?

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#187
Posted: 5/23/2012 10:32:00 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:


Actually it does.
Every bit of evidence supports Zimmerman's account of the event.

Not at all - it only supports the fact that at some point during the altercation, Z had his nose busted &  and the back of his noggin lacerated. 

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#188
Posted: 5/23/2012 10:51:02 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:



I don't understand.

You are ignoring the available evidence to keep asserting there is some other picture. Why?

Again, why didn't Martin just run back to the townhouse?

And, if Martin's girlfriend actually hear part of this encounter and it was so scary, why did she contact nobody in the Martin family, no law enforcement agency,  no attorney, or nobody in the media?

I'm not ignoring anything & you don't seem to want to understand, lol. I don't know why the gf did or didn't do whatever - from what I understand she was so upset about T's death that she spent that nit in the hospital & later it came out she didn't want to get involved.

However the fight started, imo Z provoked it either by fear & intimidation or physically grabbing or trying to hold him or a combo of both. You Z supporters keep trying to put a ribbon & bow on this thing, but imo you can't even get the wrappin paper straight 

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#189
Posted: 5/23/2012 11:43:32 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:



I don't understand.

You are ignoring the available evidence to keep asserting there is some other picture. Why?

Again, why didn't Martin just run back to the townhouse?

And, if Martin's girlfriend actually hear part of this encounter and it was so scary, why did she contact nobody in the Martin family, no law enforcement agency,  no attorney, or nobody in the media?

Maybe he was standing his ground?

Honestly though, is there any evidence saying that Martin didn't try to walk away and possibly Zimmerman grabbed him and that started the whole thing? Just speculating here.

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#190
Posted: 5/24/2012 12:37:18 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

Intellect isn't your strongsuit is it.

Oh the irony.

obviously you have a hard time with the context of what we were talking about. My advise in such a case is to mind your own business if you can't follow along.

 

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#191
Posted: 5/24/2012 12:41:18 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

I'm not ignoring anything & you don't seem to want to understand, lol. I don't know why the gf did or didn't do whatever - from what I understand she was so upset about T's death that she spent that nit in the hospital & later it came out she didn't want to get involved.

However the fight started, imo Z provoked it either by fear & intimidation or physically grabbing or trying to hold him or a combo of both. You Z supporters keep trying to put a ribbon & bow on this thing, but imo you can't even get the wrappin paper straight 

So you're saying that a dude that knew he had a concealed weopon and knew the cops were on their way, tried to manhandle another dude who didn't know the cops were coming and started a physical fight knowing that his gun could end up being used against him?

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#192
Posted: 5/24/2012 12:46:14 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:

Maybe he was standing his ground?

Honestly though, is there any evidence saying that Martin didn't try to walk away and possibly Zimmerman grabbed him and that started the whole thing? Just speculating here.

Again, I'm no shrink, but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express before and Zimmerman doesn't have the type 'A' mentality or demeanor that it takes to go around asserting himself vs people that would definitely give him a run for his money.

People like Zimmerman can have physical confrontations but its usually with people that he is very sure he can dominate.

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#193
Posted: 5/24/2012 1:06:02 AM
The obsessive arguing of the OJ case and the trayvon case seems to be comparable as it is fuel by racial issues...

It is funny to watch people vehemently defend their preconceived assumptions of zimmerman's innocence like people who were/are insistent that OJ was innocent..

 
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#194
Posted: 5/24/2012 1:06:25 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

So you're saying that a dude that knew he had a concealed weopon and knew the cops were on their way, tried to manhandle another dude who didn't know the cops were coming and started a physical fight knowing that his gun could end up being used against him?

Why do try to keep coloring things I say in a way that's not intended? Didn't say he started wrasslin or manhandlin - just that if Martin tried to get away from him Z may have well grabbed & tried to hold him or keep him from doing it already convinced he was up to no good & knowin the cops were coming. Is that hard for you to grasp or understand?

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#195
Posted: 5/24/2012 1:11:12 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

Why do try to keep coloring things I say in a way that's not intended? Didn't say he started wrasslin or manhandlin - just that if Martin tried to get away from him Z may have well grabbed & tried to hold him or keep him from doing it already convinced he was up to no good & knowin the cops were coming. Is that hard for you to grasp or understand?

I'm ignoring any douchebag that posts repeatitive comments about the commentors as if we didn't see it the first 12 times he posted it. What a complete dumb behind.

So lets say Zimmerman did try to grab him. (just for shits and giggles) Grabbing him still doesn't give him grounds to start throwing punches and smashing his head into the pavement and going MMA on him. I'm suprised that you think that is grounds for that behavior.

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#196
Posted: 5/24/2012 1:12:44 AM
Sorry Cashin...I wasn't talking about you...talking about the author #193
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#197
Posted: 5/24/2012 1:51:46 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Again, I'm no shrink, but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express before and Zimmerman doesn't have the type 'A' mentality or demeanor that it takes to go around asserting himself vs people that would definitely give him a run for his money.

People like Zimmerman can have physical confrontations but its usually with people that he is very sure he can dominate.

Once again I am only speculating here. But if Zim has a weapon, and he knows police are on their way, I believe he would have a lot more confidence in handeling himself with Martin. Add to it that he is the self proclaimed neiborhood watch.

I could realistically see a scenario where Zim told Martin to stay put because the cops were on their way. Then Martin tells Zim to darn off and Zim tries to grab him to stay put. I know it's pure speculation but I could see something to that extent going down.

Zimmerman isn't the boy scout that some, not necessarily you bowl, are painting him out to be. He is just as guilty as getting this whole thing going as Martin is. If he doesn't approach Martin then none of this gets started. Let the cops do their jobs....even if they ultimately screw it up.

 

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#198
Posted: 5/24/2012 1:56:34 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I'm ignoring any douchebag that posts repeatitive comments about the commentors as if we didn't see it the first 12 times he posted it. What a complete dumb behind.

So lets say Zimmerman did try to grab him. (just for shits and giggles) Grabbing him still doesn't give him grounds to start throwing punches and smashing his head into the pavement and going MMA on him. I'm suprised that you think that is grounds for that behavior.

Why wouldn't it be? Think back to when you were 17. If some guy who was alot older was watching & following me at that age and then tried to hold or keep me from going my own way, what choice would you have if you had any spunk at all? And Z being a heavier, older guy & total stranger would make Martin fight even stronger & more desperately -

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#199
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:05:43 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I'm ignoring any douchebag that posts repeatitive comments about the commentors as if we didn't see it the first 12 times he posted it. What a complete dumb behind.

So lets say Zimmerman did try to grab him. (just for shits and giggles) Grabbing him still doesn't give him grounds to start throwing punches and smashing his head into the pavement and going MMA on him. I'm suprised that you think that is grounds for that behavior.

I agree with what cashin said above. You can even ignore being 17 when it comes to this. If someone, especially a stranger, approaches you in a non friendly way and then grabs you(and I compteley understand this is for s & g's debate here) then I completely think you are within your rights to defend yourself.

I live by a fairly simple rule, if I don't want any physical confrontation with anyone, I don't touch them. Let alone hit them.

Were only speculating here but it seems like more could have been done on Zim's part to avoid all of this than Martin's part.

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#200
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:08:10 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:

Once again I am only speculating here. But if Zim has a weapon, and he knows police are on their way, I believe he would have a lot more confidence in handeling himself with Martin. Add to it that he is the self proclaimed neiborhood watch.

I could realistically see a scenario where Zim told Martin to stay put because the cops were on their way. Then Martin tells Zim to darn off and Zim tries to grab him to stay put. I know it's pure speculation but I could see something to that extent going down.

Zimmerman isn't the boy scout that some, not necessarily you bowl, are painting him out to be. He is just as guilty as getting this whole thing going as Martin is. If he doesn't approach Martin then none of this gets started. Let the cops do their jobs....even if they ultimately screw it up.

 

K....all the stories are nice but its about what can be proven before a jury. No evidence to suggest any grabbing or even that the gun was out. Plus if the gun were out you don't think Trayvon would try to get the gun out of his hands before he went MMA on him? Where is your common sense man?

 

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