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Author: [NFL Betting] Topic: What you should have learned today...
catmancan
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catmancan
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#76
Posted: 2/6/2012 5:19:47 PM
Hey dude, who gives a sh*t what people do or how they cap.  No ones business why or how they think whos going to win a game....most, if not all is luck anyways.  One play couldve been the difference of a Pats cover and SB victory....thats just how it is.  No need to analize and get angry over who takes what.  I know youre lonely ICE, but there are other things to life than gambling on football.
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Ice4Blood
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#77
Posted: 2/6/2012 5:46:30 PM

catmancan... guessing you were on the Pats and/or the over, huh?

 

if it's all luck... how did i go 9-0 this year and 11-3 last?  just trying to impart a little wisdom around here, but ignorant fools usually have no idea what wisdom is when it is staring them in the face...

enjoy your pathetic existence...

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#78
Posted: 2/6/2012 5:57:29 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by THEMUGG:



 I won't go so far as to say where Brady ranks amongst the greats of all time.........but I will say that the Pats have no where near the success they've had over the L10 years w/o him..........seriously, the guy doesn't have to labeled as "the best of all time"..........but the guy is pretty fuckin good.

 

yes, he is pretty fuckin' good... yes, the Pats wouldn't have done as well this past decade with most other QBs... but my point is, those who even suggest he is "the best of all time" have no friggin idea what they are talking about!  it's just utterly ridiculous! 

it's a sad thing, that most people can only make their assessment based on what EVERYBODY knows (stats, rings, etc.)... but that is not how you gauge this competition... we are talking about a total team game, with so so many factors... we always talk about how defense wins championships, and yet every SB is always attributed to the QB and the QB-alone... so that when we measure QB greatness, you have these simple-minded idiots who will use that as the sole measure of determination...

it's friggin retarded, pure and simple... but that is the common mentality of the masses, by and large... simple, and retarded...

 

 

couple other points... i will agree that Bellicheck is one of the greatest coaching minds of all time... but if that is the case, doesn't that suggest that much of Brady's success, is a product of BB's genius?

also, for those who say this game could have gone either way, and that this thread is Monday morning quarter-backing, i say bullshit... Manning made a throw on the first play of the 90-yard drive to win the game, that is better than ANY THROW I HAVE EVER SEEN TOM BRADY MAKE IN HIS CAREER!  Tom Brady cannot make that throw, and Eli seems to do it like it's nothing... also, Brady had TWO chances to win this game... with the drive before the Giants got the ball for the last time (in which Brady made a bad throw to a wide-open Wes Welker)... and again with 1 minute to go... and for those who say 1 minute isn't enough time, i say this... give Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, John Elway or even Joe Montana the ball in that position, and i would not even consider betting against them pulling it off... but with my money on the Giants, i didn't think for one second that Brady would get the job done...

he's just not the God people think he is, and all week long, all the threads were saying all this crap about "Brady and Bellicheck can't lose to the Giants again"... "they are too motivated this time"... blah blah blah bullshit!  people paid the price for putting both of them (and especially Brady) on a pedestal they shouldn't have...

i'll take the combo of Coughlin and Eli over Bellicheck and Brady every day of the week, without giving it a second thought... and imo, anybody who doesn't, should not be betting on the NFL...

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theclaw
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theclaw
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#79
Posted: 2/6/2012 10:43:03 PM
Interesting that Brady was a combined  0-13 with 1 int in passes 20 yds or longer  in both SB VS Gmen.
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#80
Posted: 2/6/2012 11:30:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by theclaw:

Interesting that Brady was a combined  0-13 with 1 int in passes 20 yds or longer  in both SB VS Gmen.


the guy has made a Hall of Fame career out of throwing the ball for 5 yards... aka Billy Ball... he owes Bellicheck everything he has accomplished in the NFL, if you ask me...


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#81
Posted: 2/6/2012 11:32:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ice4Blood:

 

yes, he is pretty fuckin' good... yes, the Pats wouldn't have done as well this past decade with most other QBs... but my point is, those who even suggest he is "the best of all time" have no friggin idea what they are talking about!  it's just utterly ridiculous! 

it's a sad thing, that most people can only make their assessment based on what EVERYBODY knows (stats, rings, etc.)... but that is not how you gauge this competition... we are talking about a total team game, with so so many factors... we always talk about how defense wins championships, and yet every SB is always attributed to the QB and the QB-alone... so that when we measure QB greatness, you have these simple-minded idiots who will use that as the sole measure of determination...

it's friggin retarded, pure and simple... but that is the common mentality of the masses, by and large... simple, and retarded...

 

 

couple other points... i will agree that Bellicheck is one of the greatest coaching minds of all time... but if that is the case, doesn't that suggest that much of Brady's success, is a product of BB's genius?

also, for those who say this game could have gone either way, and that this thread is Monday morning quarter-backing, i say bullshit... Manning made a throw on the first play of the 90-yard drive to win the game, that is better than ANY THROW I HAVE EVER SEEN TOM BRADY MAKE IN HIS CAREER!  Tom Brady cannot make that throw, and Eli seems to do it like it's nothing... also, Brady had TWO chances to win this game... with the drive before the Giants got the ball for the last time (in which Brady made a bad throw to a wide-open Wes Welker)... and again with 1 minute to go... and for those who say 1 minute isn't enough time, i say this... give Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, John Elway or even Joe Montana the ball in that position, and i would not even consider betting against them pulling it off... but with my money on the Giants, i didn't think for one second that Brady would get the job done...

he's just not the God people think he is, and all week long, all the threads were saying all this crap about "Brady and Bellicheck can't lose to the Giants again"... "they are too motivated this time"... blah blah blah bullshit!  people paid the price for putting both of them (and especially Brady) on a pedestal they shouldn't have...

i'll take the combo of Coughlin and Eli over Bellicheck and Brady every day of the week, without giving it a second thought... and imo, anybody who doesn't, should not be betting on the NFL...

Had the under in the SB so have no dog in this fight ( the only worry I had was that Eli may throw a couple of INT's to screw up the under seeing as he has thrown FORTY FIVE the last two years),,  But you kid are a fool and a pompous behind.. Giants won the game by FOUR points not 30.. Truth be told they were lucky to win  after putting the ball on the ground THREE times and pure luck got them the ball back.. If they lose any of the three they lose (especially the one on their own 10 on a sweep where 95% of the time the defense recovers those as all the offense players are downfield blocking).. get off your high horse you won a 4 point spot with Welker dropping a game winner.. Eli 60 TD's  & 45 INT's last two years.. Brady 70 TD"s & 16 INT's in the same time period.. I know stats lie ... But TD to INT ratio does not.. Eli 45 picks... .... Dude is a accident waiting to happen... nice breakdown rainman.... 45 INT's ... nice... class over clown...
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#82
Posted: 2/6/2012 11:35:02 PM
Sorry short changed Brady he only had 12 INT's... Eli 45........ I quess turning it over 45 times is a stat with no bearing on a QB's worth.. to clowns aka you it is... hit the road clown
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cashin
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#83
Posted: 2/7/2012 1:43:00 AM
Brady not a top 10 QB?? You gotta be fkn kiddin - sounds like some of you guys are lettin your personal dsilike for him run away with your imaginations. Guy's been to how many SB's & has how many rings while puttin up outrageous stats yr after year? The   biggest reason he won those he won & lost the others was the Pats had a good D back then (a couple bordering on great) & have had a mediocre or worse for the last 2, pure & simple. He's gone thru tons of different receivers with a worsening D almost every year & not any real standout backs yet gets it done yr after yr while they basically depend on him & the pass gm to carry them. Top 5? Always arguable but if not then pretty damn close, but top 10 - without question. 
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#84
Posted: 2/7/2012 11:57:37 AM
Art... if you can watch these 2 QBs play, and not recognize the superior QB, then scouting QBs is clearly not in your wheelhouse... looking at stats will give you no insight, if you can't break them down based on their abilities... Eli's throw to start the 90-yard TD drive to win that game was beyond Brady's capabilities at any point in his career... he's never made that throw and never will... Bill doesn't even ASK him to make those throws... but Eli has done it more than a handful of times, and Coughlin counts on him to make it with precision...

Eli is the most clutch QB in the game right now, and Brady isn't clutch AT ALL!  Eli is asked to make difficult downfield throws, and Brady is NOT!

this isn't even a contest, and when both of their careers are done, it won't even be debatable... i hope when the time comes, you will reflect upon our little discussion here...

but since you keep calling me a kid... tell me what kid does this:

hese were my ATS plays in the playoffs this year (9-0)...

Texans (-3) vs Bengals:  Hou 31-10  (18 point cover)
Broncos (+8.5) vs Steelers:  Den 29-23  (14.5 pt cover)
Giants (+8.5) vs Packers:  NYG 37-20  (25.5 pt cover)
Ravens (+7.5) vs Pats:  NE 23-20  (4.5 pt cover)
Bal/NE UN 51.5:  23-20 (8.5 pt cover)
Giants (+3) vs 49ers:  NYG (20-17 (6 pt cover)
NYG/SF UN 44:  20-17  (7 pt cover)
Giants (+3) vs Pats:  NYG 21-17 (7 pt cover)
NYG/NE UN 55.5:  21-17 (17.5 pt cover)


that's 9-0 ATS... covering every game by at least 4.5 points, and covering by an average of 12 points per play!!!

http://www.covers.com/postingforum/post01/showmessage.aspx?spt=21&sub=101231618



instead of bitching and moaning, you should just be paying attention, so you don't make the same mistakes again...
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#85
Posted: 2/7/2012 11:59:16 AM
Cashin... you're talking resume... i'm talking abilities...

his abilities do not put him in the top 10 of all time QBs... resume yes, abilities no!


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cashin
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#86
Posted: 2/7/2012 1:45:35 PM
Ice - well, his abilities have alot to do with his resume & you have to consider both when you're talking about top Qb's of all time. There's been tons of QB's thruout history that have all kinds of ability, but for 1 reason or another don't do alot in their career & sometimes it's not neccessarily all their fault.The QB's that have more rings than Brady (Bradshaw, Montana) both had better D's than Brady (with the Pitt D in the 70's one of the all-time best) & beyond that, getting back to 2 more SB's with as much dependency as they've had on him says alot as well. Yeah, Brees, Eli & Rodgers have all emerged as great Qb's with Eli just this yr showing the kind of all around consistency to be a great one, but imo Brady & Peyton have been the 2 best for almost a decade and with the more complex D schemes & blitz packages, have to be considered among the best of all time 
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#87
Posted: 2/7/2012 4:09:43 PM
Love these Ice vs the world threads....

*Brady's main problem is a very weak supporting cast..

    lesseee here....handing off to (very average) BJGE  and Danny Woodhead (5-8 white boy)...?
throwing to Welker (slowish 5-9 white boy)...Hermandez...32 yr old Branch...about a 60% Gronkowski...a done Ochocinco...and Woodhead??

*Appears here that Eli was the better QB...but if QB's switch teams...who wins?
     the Pats now win?.....nope

   *BUT.....a truly ELITE QB....doesn't make that long throw to Gronkowski (that was INT)...makes the throw to Welker (sure he shoulda caught it)
and doesn't get the early grounding call.... handing the Giants essentially 9 points ...
    *does my man Montana do this?....nope

However...truth be told....Brady hasn't been a truly ELITE QB ...in the post-season...since 2005 ....

Here are his play-off numbers since the 2005 season...(omitting wild-card games)

220-362 / 2295 yds...13 TD/16 INT
60.7%     would rank 15th or so in 2011.....with Carlson Palmer
6.3/att   30th with CP...below Tebow
72 PR     28th with Rex Grossman
   *only 3-4 QB's have more INT than TD's

But give Brady an explosive RB and/or a nice deep threat to stretch the D....they probably win here vs a clearly superior team....so although fading big time ....Brady can still get it done if you give him some help....the fault looks like Belichick's...overestimating Brady's ability to put the team on his back.....as he might have been able to do 2004 and before
    *if Pats had Justin Blackmon here ....is Brady all of a sudden elite again?..............................maybe so

*BTW....I'm a huge fan of Belichick....Welker.....and Brady (all winners / VERY tough losers).....

hey Ice...reading a book you would like (if haven't read it already)......Idiot America....> or how stupidity became a virtue in the land of the free
..................
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#88
Posted: 2/7/2012 7:28:55 PM
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theclaw
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#89
Posted: 2/7/2012 8:51:16 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by bookieassassin:

Love these Ice vs the world threads....

*Brady's main problem is a very weak supporting cast..

    lesseee here....handing off to (very average) BJGE  and Danny Woodhead (5-8 white boy)...?
throwing to Welker (slowish 5-9 white boy)...Hermandez...32 yr old Branch...about a 60% Gronkowski...a done Ochocinco...and Woodhead??

*Appears here that Eli was the better QB...but if QB's switch teams...who wins?
     the Pats now win?.....nope

   *BUT.....a truly ELITE QB....doesn't make that long throw to Gronkowski (that was INT)...makes the throw to Welker (sure he shoulda caught it)
and doesn't get the early grounding call.... handing the Giants essentially 9 points ...
    *does my man Montana do this?....nope

However...truth be told....Brady hasn't been a truly ELITE QB ...in the post-season...since 2005 ....

Here are his play-off numbers since the 2005 season...(omitting wild-card games)

220-362 / 2295 yds...13 TD/16 INT
60.7%     would rank 15th or so in 2011.....with Carlson Palmer
6.3/att   30th with CP...below Tebow
72 PR     28th with Rex Grossman
   *only 3-4 QB's have more INT than TD's

But give Brady an explosive RB and/or a nice deep threat to stretch the D....they probably win here vs a clearly superior team....so although fading big time ....Brady can still get it done if you give him some help....the fault looks like Belichick's...overestimating Brady's ability to put the team on his back.....as he might have been able to do 2004 and before
    *if Pats had Justin Blackmon here ....is Brady all of a sudden elite again?..............................maybe so

*BTW....I'm a huge fan of Belichick....Welker.....and Brady (all winners / VERY tough losers).....

hey Ice...reading a book you would like (if haven't read it already)......Idiot America....> or how stupidity became a virtue in the land of the free
..................

 

Brady is 7-6 in his last 13 playoff games, he produced 3 of the top 10 scoring offenses in history over that span yet those 3 top 10 scoring teams, lost in the playoffs scoring 14,17, 21 pts.

Brady clearly crashed and burned in the biggest moments.

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Crashdavis565
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#90
Posted: 2/7/2012 9:19:43 PM
Good call on Gronk
I thought he would play a little better than he did
He as about 50% and I had him closer to 70
that said  I cleaned up on a lot of Gronk props related to yards.

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