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Author: [Food & Fitness] Topic: High cholesterol is bad for you
Henry-Lilly send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Bellagio |
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#26
Posted: 7/16/2012 2:50:47 PM
BMA-

It is truly astounding how ignorant you are.
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#27
Posted: 7/16/2012 2:58:30 PM
BE

the risk factors we can modify

Cholesterol HDL/LDL  RATIO
Triglyceride level is independent of cholesterol
Smoking
Hypertension
Diabetes


 others less significant
obesity only when gross obesity
hyperuricamia possibly
high levels of dietary salt via its effect on blood pressure then heart disease
lack of exercise
excess alcohol via effect on cholesterol and blood pressure
stress via effect on blood pressure and glucose




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#28
Posted: 7/16/2012 2:59:33 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Henry-Lilly:

BMA-

It is truly astounding how ignorant you are.



foolish comment
your stocks are down

showcase your foolishness
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#29
Posted: 7/16/2012 3:00:47 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BMA:




how can YOU CHALLENGE

The drug companies do not influence the prescription written by the doctor.


tell me how the drug company instructs the doctor in his consulting room to prescribe a certain drug

first name a drug then describe how the drug company instructs the doctor to prescribe that particular drug to a particular patient






let me repost this:

A dozen pharmaceutical companies have given doctors and other healthcare providers more than $760 million over the past two years - and those companies' sales comprise 40 percent of the U.S. market.

maybe those hundreds of millions are given to doctors as charity but i think that money is paid to influence doctors to prescribe their drugs. 

there are way too many articles on this to post.

here's one.

Analyses by The New York Times and others have found that about a quarter of doctors take cash payments from drug or device makers and that nearly two-thirds accept routine gifts of food, including lunch for staff members and dinner for themselves.

The Times has found that doctors who take money from drug makers often practice medicine differently from those who do not and that they are more willing to prescribe drugs in risky and unapproved ways, such as prescribing powerful antipsychotic medicines for children.

here's another

More than 17,000 doctors and other healthcare providers have taken money from seven major drug companies to talk to other doctors about their products


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#30
Posted: 7/16/2012 3:02:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Henry-Lilly:

BMA-

It is truly astounding how ignorant you are.



more astounding is how little you know about preventive medicine

or  really anything medical. What a bizarre comment to make, obviously no one in your family that has any medical condition requiring medications, how lucky and fortunate you all are.
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#31
Posted: 7/16/2012 3:15:41 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



let me repost this:

A dozen pharmaceutical companies have given doctors and other healthcare providers more than $760 million over the past two years - and those companies' sales comprise 40 percent of the U.S. market.

maybe those hundreds of millions are given to doctors as charity but i think that money is paid to influence doctors to prescribe their drugs. 

there are way too many articles on this to post.

here's one.

Analyses by The New York Times and others have found that about a quarter of doctors take cash payments from drug or device makers and that nearly two-thirds accept routine gifts of food, including lunch for staff members and dinner for themselves.

The Times has found that doctors who take money from drug makers often practice medicine differently from those who do not and that they are more willing to prescribe drugs in risky and unapproved ways, such as prescribing powerful antipsychotic medicines for children.

here's another

More than 17,000 doctors and other healthcare providers have taken money from seven major drug companies to talk to other doctors about their products




it is good for money to be put into healthcare and if that is gifted, then that is good,


that has no control over the prescription written by the doctor, that is based on clinical need only


doctors prescribing is influenced by clinical need only


that is not true, let them name and shame, let them name the doctors then those doctors would lose their lenience. There are some bad doctors but a very small number, there are bad in all professions, mechanisms of appraisal and re validation ensures they are weeded out, prescribing figures are part of appraisal and re validation, any doctor deviating away from standard prescribing practice is weeded out.

pharmaceutical companies do sponsor conferences but by law have to be of medical content. Its main function is to make doctors aware of available products and latest developments, expert opinion is required and like any speaker they receive a fee.
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#32
Posted: 7/16/2012 3:26:45 PM
nuts
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#33
Posted: 7/16/2012 3:49:32 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

nuts



you can't except explanations.

I will try to put it simple and in everyday working day style.

Now we have a medical rep for a branded statin. The reps are often young 20-30 drop dead gorgeous, because thats the type male doctors like to see and are most likely therefore to alot time to see them, they may take you for a meal and that is nice, a meal with a gorgeous young woman. Now she can tell you about her brand of statin. Now to the doctor classes of drugs are all of a muchness and it is usually a class effect. The class of statins will have similar benefits in reducing cholestertol, so when the doctor decides on a statin, it is often the first one that comes to mind. Now if you do surgery after having a meal with a gorgeous rep who has been talking about her brand of statin, then when you see a patient and you make the clinical judgement to prescribe a statin, that is not influenced by the rep. But because that brand is fresh in your head then naturally that is the brand you write. But the clinical decision to prescribe a statin was not influenced, but your choice of which statin you used could have been influenced because it is recent and in your mind. But with the growing numbers of doctors now not prescribing by brand name but by generic name, then the ability for the company rep to influence brand is declining.  Eventually all prescribing will be generic.
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#34
Posted: 7/16/2012 4:03:39 PM
$760 million from drug companies to doctors in 2 years.

your stories are nice but i'm going to go with, drug companies are influencing doctors to peddle their drugs based on the big number. 

that's not contributing to the health care industry, that's lobbying doctors just like the hundreds of millions the pharmaceutical industry pays our government isn't contributing to america, it's paying scumbag politicians.
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#35
Posted: 7/16/2012 4:06:31 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

$760 million from drug companies to doctors in 2 years.

your stories are nice but i'm going to go with, drug companies are influencing doctors to peddle their drugs based on the big number. 

that's not contributing to the health care industry, that's lobbying doctors just like the hundreds of millions the pharmaceutical industry pays our government isn't contributing to america, it's paying scumbag politicians.


you don't prescribe

that's the trump card


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#36
Posted: 7/16/2012 4:23:02 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BMA:



you don't prescribe

that's the trump card





do you not see this

Statins

Simvatatin many  brands many different companies
Pravastatin  many brands many different companies
Atorvastatin Pfizer
Rosuvastatin Astra Zeneca
Fluvastatin Novartis


You see the drug company no mater how many millions it pumps in can't influence a doctor to prescribe a statin

the decision to prescribe a statin is based on clinical need.


the only possible influence is to influence the brand prescribed.


Doctors see the benefit of statins as a class effect of the drug,  any member will produce the cholesterol lowering benefit he desires. The brand is of much less significance


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#37
Posted: 7/16/2012 4:38:11 PM
All drugs are in classes ( families)

The effect of the drug is a classs effect, they all work for the condition. But they have slight differences in absorption, side effect profiles etc.

The PPI's ( Proton Pump Inhibitors)

used for reflux esophagitis, duodenal ulcer


several in the class different brand names

Omeprazole (brand names: Losec, Prilosec, Zegerid, ocid, Lomac, Omepral, Omez,)
Lansoprazole (brand names: Prevacid, Zoton, Monolitum, Inhibitol, Levant, Lupizole)
Dexlansoprazole (brand name: Kapidex, Dexilant)
Esomeprazole (brand names: Nexium, Esotrex, esso)
Pantoprazole (brand names: Protonix, Somac, Pantoloc, Pantozol, Zurcal, Zentro, Pan, Controloc)
Rabeprazole (brand names: AcipHex, Pariet, Erraz, Zechin, Rabecid, Nzole-D, Rabeloc, Razo.



the drug company can't influence your decision  to prescribe a PPI to a patient, it can only try to influence which brand od PPI you use.


So you whole argument breaks down

Drug companies cant influence you to prescribe a drug type for a condition, they can only influence the brand. If they can influence more doctors to prescribe their brand then they will enjoy the largest market and profitability for their brand of that drug.


That is all that their money can do,. influence their market share of the class of drug you use, it dose not influence you to use that class of drug.


You should be able to understand that



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#38
Posted: 7/16/2012 5:07:10 PM
the drug company can't influence your decision  to prescribe a PPI to a patient, it can only try to influence which brand od PPI you use.


ok, so a guy goes to the doctor and says, i have heartburn all of the time.  i saw 50 commercials in the last week about some pill i can take daily which will eliminate the acid that causes heartburn before it starts.  

your saying the money given to the doctor by pharmaceutical companies doesn't, wait can't, influence the doctor's decision to prescribe a drug, but only might influence which brand? 

so, a doctor could say, hey fool, quit eating wheat and gluten and sugar every meal and try some real food like fruits and vegetables and meat.  or, he could say, no problem, here's a prescription for a drug that will eliminate acid production (which happens to be your body's way of telling you not to eat that garbage in most people) allowing you to eat whatever the darn you want as often as you want. 

of course, if the doctor takes approach number 1 and it works, the doctor may never see this customer again.  if the doctor takes approach number two, there will be follow up appointments for check ups and prescription refills.

and you're saying the hundreds of millions pharmaceutical companies gives these doctors just can't impact that decision. 




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#39
Posted: 7/16/2012 5:30:20 PM
ok your patient goes to the doctor with heartburn this is what happene


He takes a history, how long have you had it, what brings it on, what relieves it. Is it worse when you bend over or lie down. All features of reflux, he asks do you vomit, does fatty meals make it worse ( thinking of gall stones), asks about appetite, weight loss ( thinking cancer), asks about smoking history, asks about alcohol consumption.


then examines the patient on the couch, looks for signs of anemia, jaundice, examines abdomen for tenderness and any masses or enlarged liver.


orders tests to check for anemia, test for h pylori

if over age 45 orders endoscopy to exclude cancer, ultrasound if you suspect gall stones



If tests negative and diagnosis is reflux ( heartburn)

First life style modifications

If overweight weight reduction if smoker stop, small frequent meals, raise head of bed.

If after lifestyle modifications still symptomatic there is need to use PPI.  Reflux that persists despite life style modifications will lead to scarring and narrowing of esophagus with later dyspghagia ( difficulty swallowing food sticks), or bleeding of esophagus, and long term risk of cancer of esophagus.  So PPI are started.


Not because the patient saw the advert, because you followed clinical protocol in assessment, investigation and management.




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#40
Posted: 7/16/2012 5:46:05 PM
i use that example because i used to have stomach problems.  heartburn was an issue but other problems as well.  i went to a couple of doctors.  they ran some blood tests, stool tests, i had one endoscopy, and the general consensus was, i don't have a clue.  and of course they gave me medication.  so i did my own research and i changed my diet drastically and cut out a lot of carbs.  if these doctors would have at least mentioned it as a possibility, it would have saved a lot of time and money.  but none of them did.  the answer was tests and medication.


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#41
Posted: 7/16/2012 5:49:52 PM
there are bad doctors

hopefully  appraisals and re validation will weed them out

the stool test was for h pylori

it was correct for them to investigate

but they should have advised life style modifications and arranged to see you again and only if life style modifications failed, to treat with PPI
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#42
Posted: 7/17/2012 8:55:24 AM
Look who it is, BMA the liar

why do you feel the need to lie?
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#43
Posted: 7/17/2012 9:15:37 AM
can you eat the egg yolk, if you eat 4 fried eggs a day is that bad for your cholesterol level
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#44
Posted: 7/17/2012 12:22:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by hoopsvader:

can you eat the egg yolk, if you eat 4 fried eggs a day is that bad for your cholesterol level


as i understand it, eggs are very healthy, the yolk is healthier than the white part.  eggs do not raise your cholesterol level and even if they did, that may not be a biog problem and the benefit probably outweighs the presumed risk.  i can't eat more than 2 at a time because they are very filling, which is good, but i say eat as many as you want. 
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#45
Posted: 7/23/2012 3:16:22 AM

BMA, stick to posting pictures of girls, because you are clueless about cholesterol.

You can post all the guidelines, fda reports, etc etc you want, but the cholesterol thing is one of the biggest scams being pulled on people. The drug companies created all this BS about cholesterol and then created drugs they could make billions of dollars on it. The whole entire thing is a huge scam and all the people putting reports out their about cholesterol are all bought and paid for by the drug companies.

Our bodies made up of cholesterol and need it, especially our brains.

Drug companies are pure evil.  The drugs they create, just create more problems for people which in turn create the need for more drugs. 

The food companies are making us sick and the drug companies are there to peddle their evil drugs, to make us even sicker.

stick to posting pictures, at least your good at that

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#46
Posted: 7/23/2012 3:27:10 AM

BMA

I just saw what you wrote

"The drug companies do not influence the prescription written by the doctor.


tell me how the drug company instructs the doctor in his consulting room to prescribe a certain drug"

 

Are you friggin serious with this comment? Have you ever been to a doctors office in your life? Go sit in the waiting room, and you will see non stop drug reps coming into the office. You have never seen the huge buffets of food they bring into the doctors office? Wake up pal, it happens every single day in every doctors office.  You really dont know doctors get vacations, gifts,money for writing certain scripts out 

Just look at all the drug signs and pamphlets in the office and you can bet your behind if you have a medical problem that deals with those signs and pamphlets in the sitting room and exam room, your behind will be leaving the office with one of the drugs that are being promoted in that office.

You need to get out of the bubble you live.

Do you really think doctors go home and spend the night researching what drugs to give patients  They get all their info on what drugs to use on each condition from the drug reps.

The only person in this thread giving really bad advice is you

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#47
Posted: 7/23/2012 3:30:33 AM

every drug that i have ever been offered at my doctors office, has always been a drug advertisted in the waiting room.

you think the doctors put that garbage up, because thats their choices for meds.

Doctors rely on drug companies and the reps that come around to teach them about the drugs that are out there.

BMA are you like 16?  cause am really in disbelief that you dont know this

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