Chopping the blinds when folded around...

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Author: [Poker] Topic: Chopping the blinds when folded around...
VegasGenius PM VegasGenius
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Posted: 7/9/2011 5:42:16 AM
I never understood why people do this. I never chop. To me, the majority of people chop because they are scared to play heads up.

I love listening to the reasons people give why you should chop...

1) "The house will take a rake if we play" - Sure, they will take a rake, but if you win the hand you still profit, so who cares?
2) " Who wants to battle over the blinds" - Ummm I do, I come to win $$$$, and not give up edges when I have position on you heads up.

It just amazes me how much equity people give up over the long run by chopping hands like pairs, AK, etc etc....all of those pots you give up when you chop are pots you need to drag after paying rake, tipping dealers, cocktail waitresses, etc etc.


VegasGenius PM VegasGenius
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Posted: 7/9/2011 5:46:02 AM
Also forgot to add my favorite...when someone doesn't chop....someone always brings up the story of..."this one time, this guy didn't wanna chop, and he got stacked"
w8rh3wk5 PM w8rh3wk5
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Posted: 7/9/2011 7:23:50 AM
I chop all the time... why play a hand against one person that the house gets the rake. And at best u will steal a blind and at worst u could lose a big hand.... bc chopping is such the norm now, u r pissing off the other players bc u wont chop. So on top of only winning blinds,etc. U become a target for the other players which is exactly what u don't want. U can't wait regularly with people targeting u. Why has a pro won the wsop main event??? Its bc the pros have to overcome to big of a disadvantage bc people just want to knock them out. And the same thing applies here. U piss off the people next to u and that's two more people who will go out of there way to knock u out.
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VegasGenius PM VegasGenius
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Posted: 7/9/2011 3:38:01 PM
"Why play a hand against one person that the house gets the rake"....once again, another statement I typically hear that makes no sense. If the house takes a rake, then the winner of the hand will make a profit. Using your logic, why don't people chop when UTG raises and it folds around to the big blind and he calls? Since they would be playing heads up and the house gets the rake? Makes no sense.

Also, anyone who gets pissed because someone doesn't chop needs to grow up. It is a good thing if someone is gunning for you at the table, you want people making -ev calls preflop to try and bust you.
w8rh3wk5 PM w8rh3wk5
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:00:07 AM
I have to disagree with u. U do not want people gunning for you bc even if u r a two to one favorite everytime, u will get sucked out some times. The win regularly u want to take down pots without contest. U want to get ur money in with the best hand. U want to chase when the pot odds say its worthwhile. All while minimizing the amount of times u go Allin. And pissing people off by not chopping, u r adding two more people who will come at u.
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VegasGenius PM VegasGenius
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Posted: 7/10/2011 8:26:31 AM
"If you are a 2 to 1 favorite you will get sucked out some times"....just lol at that statement.
Of course you will get sucked out on every now and then, it's called variance. As a 2 to 1 favorite you will also be on the + side way more often.


MrGlue PM MrGlue
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Posted: 7/10/2011 1:22:07 PM
Over my last 6800 hands, my win rate without posting the blinds would have been 8.31 BB/100 hands.

Posting the blinds, my win rate was 5.59 BB/100.

Chopping is +EV.

I don't think that's why most live players chop though... I think it probably has something to do with eligibility for jack pot hands.

 
DaThunder84 PM DaThunder84
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Posted: 7/10/2011 6:11:06 PM
Chopping blinds keeps the game moving as well, why battle for $2 when you can start another hand in 30 seconds
DannoDanger PM DannoDanger
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Posted: 7/11/2011 11:03:15 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by VegasGenius:

It just amazes me how much equity people give up over the long run by chopping hands like pairs, AK, etc etc....

And what about when you're not holding premium hands?  How much 'equity' are you saving?  It's nice if you can look at your cards and then say, "No chop."

Amp PM Amp
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Posted: 7/16/2011 9:41:22 PM

I bet you're loved by all the players at the game

Bling PM Bling
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Posted: 7/16/2011 10:18:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by VegasGenius:


1) "The house will take a rake if we play" - Sure, they will take a rake, but if you win the hand you still profit, so who cares?
Less profit due to the fact heads up will have more hands with pots not over the max rake.  Therefore you would have to win more of these heads-up battles to profit over time.
TRAIN69 PM TRAIN69
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Posted: 8/4/2011 9:20:49 PM

If you're not chopping you havent played much, are naive, or a jerk.

Degenerate PM Degenerate
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Posted: 8/11/2011 5:34:12 AM
Been putting in a crazy amount of live play over the last year. At first I was the guy who never chopped. It's poker. Since when is there a hand you're dealt that youre supposed to just throw away? It's not part of the game. Eventually I gave in. But I see both sides, and quite frankly don't care enough about the issue. Sure it speeds the game up and we all get to move onto the next hand, but you spend the great majority of live poker sitting there while other hands are being played so I don't see why you'd get so worked up over just another hand you're not in like you're jonesing for the next hand. It's just another couple minutes you have to check out the cocktail waitresses.

Whats funny is people laughing about what they chopped. Two guys with $800 each and they flip over AA and KK of all things. Someone should remind the dude who had AA that if he was a decent player and the hand went as you'd expect he could possibly have both stacks in front of him. But hey he was making the random people he's never met and will likely never see again happy.

dude1618 PM dude1618
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Posted: 11/14/2011 12:03:07 PM
no sense to chop a cash game
WhySoSucK PM WhySoSucK
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Posted: 12/23/2011 10:58:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by TRAIN69:

If you're not chopping you havent played much, are naive, or a jerk.




runlagos PM runlagos
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Posted: 12/28/2011 6:19:24 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Degenerate:

Been putting in a crazy amount of live play over the last year. At first I was the guy who never chopped. It's poker. Since when is there a hand you're dealt that youre supposed to just throw away? It's not part of the game. Eventually I gave in. But I see both sides, and quite frankly don't care enough about the issue. Sure it speeds the game up and we all get to move onto the next hand, but you spend the great majority of live poker sitting there while other hands are being played so I don't see why you'd get so worked up over just another hand you're not in like you're jonesing for the next hand. It's just another couple minutes you have to check out the cocktail waitresses.

Whats funny is people laughing about what they chopped. Two guys with $800 each and they flip over AA and KK of all things. Someone should remind the dude who had AA that if he was a decent player and the hand went as you'd expect he could possibly have both stacks in front of him. But hey he was making the random people he's never met and will likely never see again happy.


 I think along the same lines as far as seeing both sides. There are sessions where I do chop and sessions where I don't. Just varies on the stack to my left and right, and the rest of the table vibe.
TRAIN69 PM TRAIN69
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Posted: 12/28/2011 6:31:09 PM
Only reason not to chop is if there is a bad beat and you both had bad beat hands.
Weathered PM Weathered
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Posted: 1/3/2012 9:54:33 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MrGlue:

Over my last 6800 hands, my win rate without posting the blinds would have been 8.31 BB/100 hands.

Posting the blinds, my win rate was 5.59 BB/100.

Chopping is +EV.

I don't think that's why most live players chop though... I think it probably has something to do with eligibility for jack pot hands.

 

this is the correct answer 
PlaysnPays PM PlaysnPays
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Posted: 7/13/2012 10:51:31 PM
W8r has it right on the head, the chances you are able to win a big pot decrease significantly against 1 player, not too mention you are calling off a small blind just to have the house take most of the profit.  By Chopping you keep a target off your head and you keep the game moving.  Last thing you want to do is "be that one guy." Unless that's your game, if you are the antagonist and like pissing people off and dont mind them coming after you then by all means go for it.  Just have a plan and a reason.
packersbackers PM packersbackers
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Posted: 7/26/2012 10:10:31 AM
If you really want to be an angle shooting jerkoff, always chop when you're the small blind, but never chop in the big blind,,,,I think the OP will adapt over time to being a bigger jerkoff 
BIGfnPOO PM BIGfnPOO
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Posted: 7/29/2012 9:44:09 AM
i  go w/ the flow ....  the hardhead who never chops gts the target.  if u r comfortable with that and are a natural a-hole anyway......."lets play"........the guy obviously never read  Mike Caro.  
tkf18ny PM tkf18ny
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Posted: 11/24/2012 10:36:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MrGlue:

Over my last 6800 hands, my win rate without posting the blinds would have been 8.31 BB/100 hands.

Posting the blinds, my win rate was 5.59 BB/100.

Chopping is +EV.

I don't think that's why most live players chop though... I think it probably has something to do with eligibility for jack pot hands.

 


to be fair thats your rate in all blind situations not blind vs blind

in lower stakes games with rake chopping makes sense because in the long run you won't overcome the rake
then again if chopping is coming up frequently find a new table

i always laugh in 5/10 which is a time game pretty much everywhere but la when people want to chop just because they suck heads up
earthWake PM earthWake
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Posted: 12/8/2012 11:21:49 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DannoDanger:

And what about when you're not holding premium hands?  How much 'equity' are you saving?  It's nice if you can look at your cards and then say, "No chop."


you can.
refer PM refer
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Posted: 12/14/2012 7:41:13 PM
Just got back from LV and multiple casinos just stopped allowing chopping in thier games. These included Palms / Hard Rock / Luxor poker rooms. 
BOTSLAYER PM BOTSLAYER
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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:11:59 PM
@weathered's post including Mr. Glue

This is just simple math...except he filtered for every time he was in the blind rather than every time it was folded to the blinds. If you lose money when it is folded to the SB (when combining both stats of SB and BB*) then you are not going to win money at poker anyways and why not enjoy every hand you get?

@refer

Awesome! That is the way it should be. Are people allowed to chop if there are antes? I know people do not consider blinds the same as antes but they actually are. Every hand the same amount of money goes into the middle blind (barring exceptions) whch means that those blinds are actually everybody's, just like antes.


*Yes a lot of times chopping in SB and playing in BB is either not noticed or not challenged but it is an angle shoot, but so is chopping to begin with.
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