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    All Forums | Soccer

    FIFA Club World Cup

    vanzack
    garbagetime
    gotime
    SPark1
    Sebastian2019
    ...
    Participants:
    Search
    Views: 905
    Posts: 10
     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Jun. 11, 2025 - 1:26 PM ET #1

    FIFA Club World Cup - starts Monday June 14

    I have been asked a lot about process for betting on these kinds of tournaments. Long post ahead...

    I use a combination of modeling (fancy word for objective analysis) and tactical and matchup analysis (subjective). Objective analysis won't work alone in these kinds of tournaments - because objectively comparing teams from different continents that never play similar competition is close to impossible.

    The subjective (tactical) analysis comes from my knowledge of the sport, and most importantly lineups that are announced about 1 hour before gametime. In most sports, predicting tactics and gameplan before the event is difficult. You can think that an NFL team should run because the opposing defense is terrible against the run - but until kickoff you really aren't sure. In soccer - the lineups are not only important to assess skill level on the pitch - but they are also the roadmap to the tactics. You know how a team will play based on how they lineup - at least at the beginning.

    The interesting thing is that betting lines move on players in or out of lineups - but very little based on reading in to the implied tactics and strategy. I have found success taking advantage of slow moving lines when you can clearly see for example that a team is going to defend first and counterattack. Matchups play a clear role also. For instance - in the UCL final when it was confirmed that Bruno Mendes was lined up against Lamal - who was torching everyone this season on the wing - it was clear Lamal was going to have it tougher than most days. He was totally ineffective because Mendes didn't need any help and freed up the second man that usually needs to double team Lamal.

    The objective analysis is nuanced - but soccer is a unique sport in that all players have an assigned value. Players are bought and sold - not traded - on a worldwide scale. So how do bookmakers (and you) come to a fair line on a matchup between teams from different continents? 

    You are 80% of the way there if you simply use the teams cumulative squad value. http://Transfermarkt.com is a great place to start. In the attached pic - you can see the values - along with some of the opening day betting lines.  The values follow the betting lines pretty closely. So the books are at the same disadvantage we all are, and are mostly using squad value as a compass to set a line.  Throw in some other stats to the values like XG, shots, big chance conversion rates etc - and you are on your way to a good objective model. It is not rocket science.

    So the challenge to us as handicappers is to use a combination of the above to beat lines that by nature should be softer than most league events like NFL, or MLB. This is what I attribute my historical success in these tournaments to - and why I see them as tremendous opportunities.

    Happy to discuss.  GL.

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply
    To remove first post, remove entire topic.

    FIFA Club World Cup - starts Monday June 14

    I have been asked a lot about process for betting on these kinds of tournaments. Long post ahead...

    I use a combination of modeling (fancy word for objective analysis) and tactical and matchup analysis (subjective). Objective analysis won't work alone in these kinds of tournaments - because objectively comparing teams from different continents that never play similar competition is close to impossible.

    The subjective (tactical) analysis comes from my knowledge of the sport, and most importantly lineups that are announced about 1 hour before gametime. In most sports, predicting tactics and gameplan before the event is difficult. You can think that an NFL team should run because the opposing defense is terrible against the run - but until kickoff you really aren't sure. In soccer - the lineups are not only important to assess skill level on the pitch - but they are also the roadmap to the tactics. You know how a team will play based on how they lineup - at least at the beginning.

    The interesting thing is that betting lines move on players in or out of lineups - but very little based on reading in to the implied tactics and strategy. I have found success taking advantage of slow moving lines when you can clearly see for example that a team is going to defend first and counterattack. Matchups play a clear role also. For instance - in the UCL final when it was confirmed that Bruno Mendes was lined up against Lamal - who was torching everyone this season on the wing - it was clear Lamal was going to have it tougher than most days. He was totally ineffective because Mendes didn't need any help and freed up the second man that usually needs to double team Lamal.

    The objective analysis is nuanced - but soccer is a unique sport in that all players have an assigned value. Players are bought and sold - not traded - on a worldwide scale. So how do bookmakers (and you) come to a fair line on a matchup between teams from different continents? 

    You are 80% of the way there if you simply use the teams cumulative squad value. http://Transfermarkt.com is a great place to start. In the attached pic - you can see the values - along with some of the opening day betting lines.  The values follow the betting lines pretty closely. So the books are at the same disadvantage we all are, and are mostly using squad value as a compass to set a line.  Throw in some other stats to the values like XG, shots, big chance conversion rates etc - and you are on your way to a good objective model. It is not rocket science.

    So the challenge to us as handicappers is to use a combination of the above to beat lines that by nature should be softer than most league events like NFL, or MLB. This is what I attribute my historical success in these tournaments to - and why I see them as tremendous opportunities.

    Happy to discuss.  GL.

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Jun. 11, 2025 - 1:27 PM ET #2

    Team     Transfermarkt Market Value (€ million)

    1             Real Madrid                 1,330

    2             Manchester City             1,180

    3             Paris Saint-Germain        1,050

    4             Chelsea                          972

    5             Bayern Munich               856

    6             Inter Milan                  664

    7             Juventus                       623

    8             Atlético Madrid               505

    9             Borussia Dortmund       473

    10          Benfica                         339

    11          Porto                             303

    12          Palmeiras                       228

    13          Flamengo                     201

    14          Botafogo                      160

    15          Red Bull Salzburg            159

    16          Al-Hilal                          153

     

     

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    Team     Transfermarkt Market Value (€ million)

    1             Real Madrid                 1,330

    2             Manchester City             1,180

    3             Paris Saint-Germain        1,050

    4             Chelsea                          972

    5             Bayern Munich               856

    6             Inter Milan                  664

    7             Juventus                       623

    8             Atlético Madrid               505

    9             Borussia Dortmund       473

    10          Benfica                         339

    11          Porto                             303

    12          Palmeiras                       228

    13          Flamengo                     201

    14          Botafogo                      160

    15          Red Bull Salzburg            159

    16          Al-Hilal                          153

     

     

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
    Legend
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Jun. 11, 2025 - 1:27 PM ET #3

    17          River Plate                     114

    18          Boca Juniors                  78

    19          Fluminense                     77

    20          Monterrey                       69

    21          Inter Miami                     66

    22          Pachuca                           56

    23          Seattle Sounders FC           52

    24          LAFC                               51

    25          Al Ahly                            50

    26          Al Ain                             46

    27          Mamelodi Sundowns         35

    28          Espérance de Tunis           20

    29          Urawa Red Diamonds         20

    30          Wydad Casablanca              17

    31          Ulsan Hyundai                  15

    32          Auckland City FC                5

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    17          River Plate                     114

    18          Boca Juniors                  78

    19          Fluminense                     77

    20          Monterrey                       69

    21          Inter Miami                     66

    22          Pachuca                           56

    23          Seattle Sounders FC           52

    24          LAFC                               51

    25          Al Ahly                            50

    26          Al Ain                             46

    27          Mamelodi Sundowns         35

    28          Espérance de Tunis           20

    29          Urawa Red Diamonds         20

    30          Wydad Casablanca              17

    31          Ulsan Hyundai                  15

    32          Auckland City FC                5

     
    garbagetime
    garbagetime
    Veteran
    Participation Meter
    Joined: Nov, 2016
    Posts: 2189
    Posted: Jun. 11, 2025 - 1:56 PM ET #4

    Over-reliance on squad value is the reason the Africa Cup of Nations is such a good competition for betting dogs. The lines are set based on which EPL players are involved, and every year teams like Egypt or KSA or Libya are way better sides than the ones whose players you've heard of.

    Reply

    Over-reliance on squad value is the reason the Africa Cup of Nations is such a good competition for betting dogs. The lines are set based on which EPL players are involved, and every year teams like Egypt or KSA or Libya are way better sides than the ones whose players you've heard of.

     
    vanzack
    vanzack
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    Joined: Nov, 2001
    Posts: 60107
    Posted: Jun. 11, 2025 - 3:24 PM ET #5

    @garbagetime

    goodpost

    Support your local animal shelter. I am on twitter.
    Reply

    @garbagetime

    goodpost

     
    gotime
    gotime
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    Participation Meter
    Joined: Dec, 2007
    Posts: 2926
    Posted: Jun. 11, 2025 - 3:55 PM ET #6

    @vanzack

     I look at these tournaments a lot different than most. Group stage. What teams can I make $ on. 

    Example would be Inter Miami. If I bet the first game and win I would not bet another game that they play in the group stage. If I lost I may double up on 1 of the next games if I really felt the price was good.

    2nd example. I would never lay 50-1 on Real Madrid to try to make $. If for some reason that game ended in a draw or loss your whole tournament bank roll would be done. RED cards do happen!

    In knockout stage it seems teams play not to lose. This to me is where the draw bet would come into play. 

    On a side note my thought is Chelsea is the most overrated team and Flamengo is the most underrated team. 

    So much going on. Is a team coming in with momentum? Are they burnt out from to much recent play? Who do you like to advance?

    Reply

    @vanzack

     I look at these tournaments a lot different than most. Group stage. What teams can I make $ on. 

    Example would be Inter Miami. If I bet the first game and win I would not bet another game that they play in the group stage. If I lost I may double up on 1 of the next games if I really felt the price was good.

    2nd example. I would never lay 50-1 on Real Madrid to try to make $. If for some reason that game ended in a draw or loss your whole tournament bank roll would be done. RED cards do happen!

    In knockout stage it seems teams play not to lose. This to me is where the draw bet would come into play. 

    On a side note my thought is Chelsea is the most overrated team and Flamengo is the most underrated team. 

    So much going on. Is a team coming in with momentum? Are they burnt out from to much recent play? Who do you like to advance?

     
    SPark1
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    Joined: Oct, 2012
    Posts: 10802
    Posted: Jun. 11, 2025 - 5:42 PM ET #7

    I used to live betting the over under on corners

    It's all probabilities
    Reply

    I used to live betting the over under on corners

     
    Sebastian2019
    Sebastian2019
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    Joined: Jan, 2023
    Posts: 10
    Posted: Jun. 12, 2025 - 5:31 PM ET #8

    Van

    Are you giving out your plays for this tournament?

     

    Reply

    Van

    Are you giving out your plays for this tournament?

     

     
    JJWoods
    JJWoods
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    Joined: Oct, 2024
    Posts: 4182
    Posted: Jun. 14, 2025 - 6:27 AM ET #9

    @vanzack

     Great to see ya brotha peace_5 enjoy the matches

    Never told why I was banned and gave my best always to the forums
    Reply

    @vanzack

     Great to see ya brotha peace_5 enjoy the matches

     
     
    Fizzleman
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    Posts: 96
    Posted: Jun. 14, 2025 - 10:10 AM ET #10

    @vanzack

     

     what do you think on the PSG-Atletico matchup?

     

    Simply in the terms of PSG wins champions league, then players rush to their national teams and play WC qualifiers/maybe a friendly.  And now rush across the ocean to play this tournament.  I know PSG is young but mentally no way they are fully engaged and prepared for this tourney.  And well Atletico is Atletico.  Really love that +.5 on them

    Reply

    @vanzack

     

     what do you think on the PSG-Atletico matchup?

     

    Simply in the terms of PSG wins champions league, then players rush to their national teams and play WC qualifiers/maybe a friendly.  And now rush across the ocean to play this tournament.  I know PSG is young but mentally no way they are fully engaged and prepared for this tourney.  And well Atletico is Atletico.  Really love that +.5 on them

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