Per the title of this post, randomly over the next couple
weeks I am going to lay out what I call the Ten Commandments of Successful
Sports Betting. I promise you the successful
players already follow, and agree with them and the other 95% of those who don’t
follow, or agree with, them have, and will continue to lose. I fully realize that doing this will open me
up to plenty of negativity, let’s face it, most people lose a lot of their hard
earned money, are ticked off about it, and they become that guy who screams at
people in traffic in attempts to find someone to blame their life’s problems
on. I am also opening myself up to
scrutiny, but I welcome that too, and I am willing to provide my verified
results if anyone chooses to question my credibility.
Per the title of this post, randomly over the next couple
weeks I am going to lay out what I call the Ten Commandments of Successful
Sports Betting. I promise you the successful
players already follow, and agree with them and the other 95% of those who don’t
follow, or agree with, them have, and will continue to lose. I fully realize that doing this will open me
up to plenty of negativity, let’s face it, most people lose a lot of their hard
earned money, are ticked off about it, and they become that guy who screams at
people in traffic in attempts to find someone to blame their life’s problems
on. I am also opening myself up to
scrutiny, but I welcome that too, and I am willing to provide my verified
results if anyone chooses to question my credibility.
Sports betting is a lot like bowling in a way, most people
that have bowled more than 10 games think they are very good. Why do I say this? Watch people bowling and you will see 50
people bowling less than a 135 and still giving advice to a novice, like “approach
slower”, “keep your arm straight”, “follow through”, and 100 other bits of ‘expertise’. I would lay a line of -750 that 95% of those
giving advise never have, and never will bowl a 200+ game, but why then do they
give all this advice? The answer? These people truly believe that bowling is fairly
simple to them. Most of these people had
a few lucky occurences where they hit a few strikes in a row, and think they
then ‘have it’ down. They then think how
simple the game is, and know absolutely everything they need to do to roll
strikes on a regular basis. The problem
here is that anyone who rolls enough balls will have a few lucky strings that
provided success, anyone. The next
problem is that each time they fail to get that strike, or pick up that spare
they think they know exactly what they did wrong, and understand completely
what they need to do differently next time.
This person is now ‘screwed’ because they are not able to learn anything
new that will help them because they, of course, already have all the
information they need. The Lanes
reigning champion could approach them and offer some advice, and this guy will
let it in one ear and out the other because he doesn’t need any new information
in his opinion.
Sports betting is a lot like bowling in a way, most people
that have bowled more than 10 games think they are very good. Why do I say this? Watch people bowling and you will see 50
people bowling less than a 135 and still giving advice to a novice, like “approach
slower”, “keep your arm straight”, “follow through”, and 100 other bits of ‘expertise’. I would lay a line of -750 that 95% of those
giving advise never have, and never will bowl a 200+ game, but why then do they
give all this advice? The answer? These people truly believe that bowling is fairly
simple to them. Most of these people had
a few lucky occurences where they hit a few strikes in a row, and think they
then ‘have it’ down. They then think how
simple the game is, and know absolutely everything they need to do to roll
strikes on a regular basis. The problem
here is that anyone who rolls enough balls will have a few lucky strings that
provided success, anyone. The next
problem is that each time they fail to get that strike, or pick up that spare
they think they know exactly what they did wrong, and understand completely
what they need to do differently next time.
This person is now ‘screwed’ because they are not able to learn anything
new that will help them because they, of course, already have all the
information they need. The Lanes
reigning champion could approach them and offer some advice, and this guy will
let it in one ear and out the other because he doesn’t need any new information
in his opinion.
The
problem with Sports Bettors is the same as the guy at the bowling alley in a
lot of ways. The guy at the bowling
alley never stopped to recognize the obvious… He carries a 136 average. To him, that is simply not accurate to his
bowling prowess, and he is on the verge of breaking it open. Just as the 95% of guys who had placed 50+ wagers
on sports. They had a few days here and
there that strung together winners and now they believe they ‘have it in them’
but they are just getting some bad breaks on a lot of games lately. Sound familiar? I actually read a reply comment from a guy
whose plays lost that day, and he said “We had plenty of opportunities to win
late, but they did not come through”. I
watch close to 2,000 hours of sports a year, and spend almost twice that
studying and handicapping games, and I can attest that the vast majority of
teams that lose a game fall into that category easily. He said this as if he had the right play, but
took unlucky breaks and lost. If you
lose, you picked the wrong side, if you win you picked the correct side, it
really is that simple.
The
problem with Sports Bettors is the same as the guy at the bowling alley in a
lot of ways. The guy at the bowling
alley never stopped to recognize the obvious… He carries a 136 average. To him, that is simply not accurate to his
bowling prowess, and he is on the verge of breaking it open. Just as the 95% of guys who had placed 50+ wagers
on sports. They had a few days here and
there that strung together winners and now they believe they ‘have it in them’
but they are just getting some bad breaks on a lot of games lately. Sound familiar? I actually read a reply comment from a guy
whose plays lost that day, and he said “We had plenty of opportunities to win
late, but they did not come through”. I
watch close to 2,000 hours of sports a year, and spend almost twice that
studying and handicapping games, and I can attest that the vast majority of
teams that lose a game fall into that category easily. He said this as if he had the right play, but
took unlucky breaks and lost. If you
lose, you picked the wrong side, if you win you picked the correct side, it
really is that simple.
So, look at your results, and be objective. Know there are sports bettors that win with
consistency, week in, week out, every season, and every year. If you are losing money, it is not that you
have it down, but have just been getting bad breaks, you are doing something
different from, or not doing what
successful players are doing. I read
daily the threads by bettors that verbally assault players, managers, teams, and
even the very sport. They are
externalizing their failure; it is not their own fault, it’s that team, or
manager’s poor decisions. No, no, it is
the sports bettor that possesses an inaccurate self image in sports betting by
thinking he is doing everything right and losing. Note to self brothers, if you are losing
regularly, you are certainly not doing everything right, and you will keep
losing until you figure out what you are doing that you should not do, or what
you aren’t doing that you should be doing.
Until the next one, peace and BOL
So, look at your results, and be objective. Know there are sports bettors that win with
consistency, week in, week out, every season, and every year. If you are losing money, it is not that you
have it down, but have just been getting bad breaks, you are doing something
different from, or not doing what
successful players are doing. I read
daily the threads by bettors that verbally assault players, managers, teams, and
even the very sport. They are
externalizing their failure; it is not their own fault, it’s that team, or
manager’s poor decisions. No, no, it is
the sports bettor that possesses an inaccurate self image in sports betting by
thinking he is doing everything right and losing. Note to self brothers, if you are losing
regularly, you are certainly not doing everything right, and you will keep
losing until you figure out what you are doing that you should not do, or what
you aren’t doing that you should be doing.
Until the next one, peace and BOL
People also tend to only look at starting pitching matchups and completely ignore any bullpen statistics. I love how many times I read "man the Tigers had it in the bag I can't believe their bullpen blew that game for me." Really? If you bet a team with an atrocious bullpen and are shocked when they blow a lead then you're the problem. Good stuff jstaley.
People also tend to only look at starting pitching matchups and completely ignore any bullpen statistics. I love how many times I read "man the Tigers had it in the bag I can't believe their bullpen blew that game for me." Really? If you bet a team with an atrocious bullpen and are shocked when they blow a lead then you're the problem. Good stuff jstaley.
People also tend to only look at starting pitching matchups and completely ignore any bullpen statistics. I love how many times I read "man the Tigers had it in the bag I can't believe their bullpen blew that game for me." Really? If you bet a team with an atrocious bullpen and are shocked when they blow a lead then you're the problem. Good stuff jstaley.
An excellent point Bruce. In the pre-new millenium Starting pitching was where it was at.. The money makers. Then came the 100 pitch count era, and BP pitchers were no longer the pitchers that could not make it as starters, and then the era of the specialists. Very good point Bruce, thanks brother and GL to you
People also tend to only look at starting pitching matchups and completely ignore any bullpen statistics. I love how many times I read "man the Tigers had it in the bag I can't believe their bullpen blew that game for me." Really? If you bet a team with an atrocious bullpen and are shocked when they blow a lead then you're the problem. Good stuff jstaley.
An excellent point Bruce. In the pre-new millenium Starting pitching was where it was at.. The money makers. Then came the 100 pitch count era, and BP pitchers were no longer the pitchers that could not make it as starters, and then the era of the specialists. Very good point Bruce, thanks brother and GL to you
Nice write up. Good comparison to bowling to put some perspective on a failing gambler.
To piggy back on king bruce's point but in a different category...
How often people forget to look at splits. They get on a bet thinking a team bats .245(because they do overall) then are surprised when they put up 7 runs because they are hitting .263 in day games and have the most homers vs a lefty for example...
There's a ton of things to look into in capping baseball.
Nice write up. Good comparison to bowling to put some perspective on a failing gambler.
To piggy back on king bruce's point but in a different category...
How often people forget to look at splits. They get on a bet thinking a team bats .245(because they do overall) then are surprised when they put up 7 runs because they are hitting .263 in day games and have the most homers vs a lefty for example...
There's a ton of things to look into in capping baseball.
I can add something which I have learned the past 6 months and applied which has really helped me a lot. Learn when to put even a good hand down. I can just refer to texas hold'em, a great majority of players would call a huge blind raise or try to win draws with Ace-Queen in their hand. But one of the best poker players of all time has another name for the AQ, he calls it the "1.4". That is for how many million dollars he has lost on that hand.
Sometimes people are way too fooled by the pitching matchups, win loss columns etc and at times some plays will on paper make a lot of sense. But don't be afraid to fade games just for the observational study, sometimes I learn so much by not giving into my greediness and just observing what I was supposed to call a "Sure game" or a "big bet game" and just see the outcome the day after. With this I have learned to be more precise in my gamblings and also teach my self to be critical of lines, pitching matchups but also try to learn lessons.
This might seem a bit weird but I think it makes sense, momentum shifts are huge in this game and you have to be able to give yourself time in-between games to figure out where the teams are right now. Especially if you only have 2-3 picks per day which are the only teams you watch closely for that day. Even Ace pitchers can give up tons of runs (Scherzer last night for example) and people tend to go heavy on those games and thus lose a lot of money.
An example is just tonight, C. Sale is pitching at home vs Shoemaker. Sale has been a huge favorite amongs betters this season and his team is starting out as a moderate favorite vs Shoemaker. I actually think Sale has lost his touch quite a bit and Shoemaker has kind of gained it, especially on the road. Also the Angels bat has kind of starting regaining their groove again while White Sox has been slumping. This would in my mind be a perfect game to fade and watch in order to get a sense of how the series is gonna look and perhaps pounce on the other games.
So all in all, learn to fade games and be disciplined in your betting. There will always be games another day. Just wanted to chime in with that since it has helped me a lot, like really a lot. I was so bad at being patient starting out but just by doing this I am making a lot more money.
I can add something which I have learned the past 6 months and applied which has really helped me a lot. Learn when to put even a good hand down. I can just refer to texas hold'em, a great majority of players would call a huge blind raise or try to win draws with Ace-Queen in their hand. But one of the best poker players of all time has another name for the AQ, he calls it the "1.4". That is for how many million dollars he has lost on that hand.
Sometimes people are way too fooled by the pitching matchups, win loss columns etc and at times some plays will on paper make a lot of sense. But don't be afraid to fade games just for the observational study, sometimes I learn so much by not giving into my greediness and just observing what I was supposed to call a "Sure game" or a "big bet game" and just see the outcome the day after. With this I have learned to be more precise in my gamblings and also teach my self to be critical of lines, pitching matchups but also try to learn lessons.
This might seem a bit weird but I think it makes sense, momentum shifts are huge in this game and you have to be able to give yourself time in-between games to figure out where the teams are right now. Especially if you only have 2-3 picks per day which are the only teams you watch closely for that day. Even Ace pitchers can give up tons of runs (Scherzer last night for example) and people tend to go heavy on those games and thus lose a lot of money.
An example is just tonight, C. Sale is pitching at home vs Shoemaker. Sale has been a huge favorite amongs betters this season and his team is starting out as a moderate favorite vs Shoemaker. I actually think Sale has lost his touch quite a bit and Shoemaker has kind of gained it, especially on the road. Also the Angels bat has kind of starting regaining their groove again while White Sox has been slumping. This would in my mind be a perfect game to fade and watch in order to get a sense of how the series is gonna look and perhaps pounce on the other games.
So all in all, learn to fade games and be disciplined in your betting. There will always be games another day. Just wanted to chime in with that since it has helped me a lot, like really a lot. I was so bad at being patient starting out but just by doing this I am making a lot more money.
Nice write up. Good comparison to bowling to put some perspective on a failing gambler.
To piggy back on king bruce's point but in a different category...
How often people forget to look at splits. They get on a bet thinking a team bats .245(because they do overall) then are surprised when they put up 7 runs because they are hitting .263 in day games and have the most homers vs a lefty for example...
There's a ton of things to look into in capping baseball.
Good point U.M.S. Splits do carry value in handicapping, and a value seldom utilized in MLB handicapping.
and yes, there is more information available in baseball, especially with the new Sabermetrics revolution, but that too much works against you as well. Too little is not enough information, too much is too complicated. "simplicity is true genius"... temperamental balance for sure
Nice write up. Good comparison to bowling to put some perspective on a failing gambler.
To piggy back on king bruce's point but in a different category...
How often people forget to look at splits. They get on a bet thinking a team bats .245(because they do overall) then are surprised when they put up 7 runs because they are hitting .263 in day games and have the most homers vs a lefty for example...
There's a ton of things to look into in capping baseball.
Good point U.M.S. Splits do carry value in handicapping, and a value seldom utilized in MLB handicapping.
and yes, there is more information available in baseball, especially with the new Sabermetrics revolution, but that too much works against you as well. Too little is not enough information, too much is too complicated. "simplicity is true genius"... temperamental balance for sure
I can add something which I have learned the past 6 months and applied which has really helped me a lot. Learn when to put even a good hand down. I can just refer to texas hold'em, a great majority of players would call a huge blind raise or try to win draws with Ace-Queen in their hand. But one of the best poker players of all time has another name for the AQ, he calls it the "1.4". That is for how many million dollars he has lost on that hand.
Sometimes people are way too fooled by the pitching matchups, win loss columns etc and at times some plays will on paper make a lot of sense. But don't be afraid to fade games just for the observational study, sometimes I learn so much by not giving into my greediness and just observing what I was supposed to call a "Sure game" or a "big bet game" and just see the outcome the day after. With this I have learned to be more precise in my gamblings and also teach my self to be critical of lines, pitching matchups but also try to learn lessons.
This might seem a bit weird but I think it makes sense, momentum shifts are huge in this game and you have to be able to give yourself time in-between games to figure out where the teams are right now. Especially if you only have 2-3 picks per day which are the only teams you watch closely for that day. Even Ace pitchers can give up tons of runs (Scherzer last night for example) and people tend to go heavy on those games and thus lose a lot of money.
An example is just tonight, C. Sale is pitching at home vs Shoemaker. Sale has been a huge favorite amongs betters this season and his team is starting out as a moderate favorite vs Shoemaker. I actually think Sale has lost his touch quite a bit and Shoemaker has kind of gained it, especially on the road. Also the Angels bat has kind of starting regaining their groove again while White Sox has been slumping. This would in my mind be a perfect game to fade and watch in order to get a sense of how the series is gonna look and perhaps pounce on the other games.
So all in all, learn to fade games and be disciplined in your betting. There will always be games another day. Just wanted to chime in with that since it has helped me a lot, like really a lot. I was so bad at being patient starting out but just by doing this I am making a lot more money.
well thought out, and articulated points brother, I completely agree with the Texas Hold em' analogy, it correlates perfectly, thanks for posting, and BOL
I can add something which I have learned the past 6 months and applied which has really helped me a lot. Learn when to put even a good hand down. I can just refer to texas hold'em, a great majority of players would call a huge blind raise or try to win draws with Ace-Queen in their hand. But one of the best poker players of all time has another name for the AQ, he calls it the "1.4". That is for how many million dollars he has lost on that hand.
Sometimes people are way too fooled by the pitching matchups, win loss columns etc and at times some plays will on paper make a lot of sense. But don't be afraid to fade games just for the observational study, sometimes I learn so much by not giving into my greediness and just observing what I was supposed to call a "Sure game" or a "big bet game" and just see the outcome the day after. With this I have learned to be more precise in my gamblings and also teach my self to be critical of lines, pitching matchups but also try to learn lessons.
This might seem a bit weird but I think it makes sense, momentum shifts are huge in this game and you have to be able to give yourself time in-between games to figure out where the teams are right now. Especially if you only have 2-3 picks per day which are the only teams you watch closely for that day. Even Ace pitchers can give up tons of runs (Scherzer last night for example) and people tend to go heavy on those games and thus lose a lot of money.
An example is just tonight, C. Sale is pitching at home vs Shoemaker. Sale has been a huge favorite amongs betters this season and his team is starting out as a moderate favorite vs Shoemaker. I actually think Sale has lost his touch quite a bit and Shoemaker has kind of gained it, especially on the road. Also the Angels bat has kind of starting regaining their groove again while White Sox has been slumping. This would in my mind be a perfect game to fade and watch in order to get a sense of how the series is gonna look and perhaps pounce on the other games.
So all in all, learn to fade games and be disciplined in your betting. There will always be games another day. Just wanted to chime in with that since it has helped me a lot, like really a lot. I was so bad at being patient starting out but just by doing this I am making a lot more money.
well thought out, and articulated points brother, I completely agree with the Texas Hold em' analogy, it correlates perfectly, thanks for posting, and BOL
Good read here may I add some. Don't rush to bet and wait until game time to look for lineups. I learned the hard way when best hitter missed a game just like that. My 2cents.
Good read here may I add some. Don't rush to bet and wait until game time to look for lineups. I learned the hard way when best hitter missed a game just like that. My 2cents.
Good read. Forget to this, didn't do that, don't look at this or only look at that. I think these are all perfect examples of the 1st commandment he has laid out here. You can look at every single angle of a game, from top to bottom and inside-out. Doesn't not determine the winner though...No one can determine the winner, not vegas, not anyone. I knew a guy who his a 10 team parlay last year during football season and won a staggering amount of money through a local bar. All spreads. How did he do it? He didn't analyze anything, he let his wife circle all ten winners. She based it off of the team names she liked and the cities and states that she had visited and like more than the others. That should tell you something,
Good read. Forget to this, didn't do that, don't look at this or only look at that. I think these are all perfect examples of the 1st commandment he has laid out here. You can look at every single angle of a game, from top to bottom and inside-out. Doesn't not determine the winner though...No one can determine the winner, not vegas, not anyone. I knew a guy who his a 10 team parlay last year during football season and won a staggering amount of money through a local bar. All spreads. How did he do it? He didn't analyze anything, he let his wife circle all ten winners. She based it off of the team names she liked and the cities and states that she had visited and like more than the others. That should tell you something,
So many times I read in this forum "you add no valuable information regarding your picks." Any information is good information, even if it's just a hunch.
So many times I read in this forum "you add no valuable information regarding your picks." Any information is good information, even if it's just a hunch.
The best bettors in the world are the ones to can say "no thanks" to one game and move on to another. Or wait wait wait for something they really love.
The best bettors in the world are the ones to can say "no thanks" to one game and move on to another. Or wait wait wait for something they really love.
Sometimes that is right on point elmenhorster, but sometimes jumping on the overnight lines can really help your bottom line, but you run the risk of running into a line up problem. One solution to this is if you lock in the over night line at -110, and put $440 on it, and find out Mike Trout is not in the line up, you can place a wager on the other side. Let's say the line is now +115 because you locked in a line that was going to get worse for the LA Angels (Trout), so the other side got better. You could adjust the opposing play based on the percentage chance you anticipate either side has of winning, but let's say you just want out of the wager, you place $380 on the Sox to win $337, if the Sox win, you lose $3, if the Angels win you win $60 ... BOL
Sometimes that is right on point elmenhorster, but sometimes jumping on the overnight lines can really help your bottom line, but you run the risk of running into a line up problem. One solution to this is if you lock in the over night line at -110, and put $440 on it, and find out Mike Trout is not in the line up, you can place a wager on the other side. Let's say the line is now +115 because you locked in a line that was going to get worse for the LA Angels (Trout), so the other side got better. You could adjust the opposing play based on the percentage chance you anticipate either side has of winning, but let's say you just want out of the wager, you place $380 on the Sox to win $337, if the Sox win, you lose $3, if the Angels win you win $60 ... BOL
Good read. Forget to this, didn't do that, don't look at this or only look at that. I think these are all perfect examples of the 1st commandment he has laid out here. You can look at every single angle of a game, from top to bottom and inside-out. Doesn't not determine the winner though...No one can determine the winner, not vegas, not anyone. I knew a guy who his a 10 team parlay last year during football season and won a staggering amount of money through a local bar. All spreads. How did he do it? He didn't analyze anything, he let his wife circle all ten winners. She based it off of the team names she liked and the cities and states that she had visited and like more than the others. That should tell you something,
I look forward to reading the next commandment!
I agree, but disagree at the same time Bountyhunter. While not me, you, him, her, or Vegas can guarantee one single winner, ever. Not truly guarantee it, but the way you said it is where I can disprove your theory. You said, "No one can determine a winner" that just isn't accurate at all. The easiest way to disprove this is in the fact that about 3 to 5% of players (bettors) win just about every week, and win every single season, and every year, while 95% of the sportsbetting population loses every season. Actually that is kind of the whole point on this thread. Also, Owners of teams hire some of the best minds in the business, and then spend hundreds of millions of dollars pursuing championships, they are increasing their odds of winning more games. If drastically taking on much more payroll did not increase the number of wins in regular and post season play, they would focus be 100% on keeping payroll to the absolute minimum across the board. No one can predict every game, win every play they make, or even avoid losing days, but the good news is we don't have to to make money As far as your friend who hit the 10 teamer? No, that tells me nothing new, it is obviously possible, but the payout was probably around 20K on a $100 bet depending on the lines he played. Mathematically she will do it one time every 24 thousand or so times, she she got amazingly lucky her first time.. like a lotto winner wins. BOL
Good read. Forget to this, didn't do that, don't look at this or only look at that. I think these are all perfect examples of the 1st commandment he has laid out here. You can look at every single angle of a game, from top to bottom and inside-out. Doesn't not determine the winner though...No one can determine the winner, not vegas, not anyone. I knew a guy who his a 10 team parlay last year during football season and won a staggering amount of money through a local bar. All spreads. How did he do it? He didn't analyze anything, he let his wife circle all ten winners. She based it off of the team names she liked and the cities and states that she had visited and like more than the others. That should tell you something,
I look forward to reading the next commandment!
I agree, but disagree at the same time Bountyhunter. While not me, you, him, her, or Vegas can guarantee one single winner, ever. Not truly guarantee it, but the way you said it is where I can disprove your theory. You said, "No one can determine a winner" that just isn't accurate at all. The easiest way to disprove this is in the fact that about 3 to 5% of players (bettors) win just about every week, and win every single season, and every year, while 95% of the sportsbetting population loses every season. Actually that is kind of the whole point on this thread. Also, Owners of teams hire some of the best minds in the business, and then spend hundreds of millions of dollars pursuing championships, they are increasing their odds of winning more games. If drastically taking on much more payroll did not increase the number of wins in regular and post season play, they would focus be 100% on keeping payroll to the absolute minimum across the board. No one can predict every game, win every play they make, or even avoid losing days, but the good news is we don't have to to make money As far as your friend who hit the 10 teamer? No, that tells me nothing new, it is obviously possible, but the payout was probably around 20K on a $100 bet depending on the lines he played. Mathematically she will do it one time every 24 thousand or so times, she she got amazingly lucky her first time.. like a lotto winner wins. BOL
Good stuff as usual, or as I like to refer to your Posts- "Spot On"
Which brings up a question from a Thread by CalBear (I think) last night asking about who the best Cappers on this Forum were- falling right into your Thread here. I replied that you should be right there at the top, and also added some others I felt had value to add, but just got hoe and see that Thread is no where to be found.
Any idea what happened to it, or why it's no longer here? Did the Mods decide they didn't want us giving our feedback/ opinions on who we thought were the best on the site- especially since I had one of their own on my list
Good stuff as usual, or as I like to refer to your Posts- "Spot On"
Which brings up a question from a Thread by CalBear (I think) last night asking about who the best Cappers on this Forum were- falling right into your Thread here. I replied that you should be right there at the top, and also added some others I felt had value to add, but just got hoe and see that Thread is no where to be found.
Any idea what happened to it, or why it's no longer here? Did the Mods decide they didn't want us giving our feedback/ opinions on who we thought were the best on the site- especially since I had one of their own on my list
Thanks buckjohn, BOL tonight Thanks HogWild, Yeah I seen the post, but it is not even in my previous comments section, ..Strange, it did just disappear. BOL tonight HogW
Thanks buckjohn, BOL tonight Thanks HogWild, Yeah I seen the post, but it is not even in my previous comments section, ..Strange, it did just disappear. BOL tonight HogW
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