Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad. Besides, it appears that there was no eyewitness to the relevant seconds leading up to and including the gunshot. I'd trust a tape recording more.
"Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad"..ok fair enough and I can agree.
So if it comes out that is was Zimmerman who was yelling for "help" and screaming wouldn't you agree, that he has a good case for claiming self-defense?
Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad. Besides, it appears that there was no eyewitness to the relevant seconds leading up to and including the gunshot. I'd trust a tape recording more.
"Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad"..ok fair enough and I can agree.
So if it comes out that is was Zimmerman who was yelling for "help" and screaming wouldn't you agree, that he has a good case for claiming self-defense?
Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad. Besides, it appears that there was no eyewitness to the relevant seconds leading up to and including the gunshot. I'd trust a tape recording more.
Your right. Mary Cutcher is a good earwitness and 'John' is a good eyewitness.
I hope you aren't suggesting that we throw out 'Johns' statements on the premise that there have been some other eyewitnesses in history that have been inaccurate.
I still find it very unlikely that Zimmerman could have posed a threat to Trayvon while he has a bloody nose with likely impaired vision as well and and lacerations on the back of his head.
Have the so called voice experts said that all voices aren't Zimmerman or have they said only the last scream?
I'll take 'Johns' statement because he was fucking there and there is likely no reason at this point to think he's a shitty witness.
Part of the reason I have been soo staunch in defending Zimmerman is that there has been no solid common sense or evidence to suggest he is lying.
46+ times calling police and this and very likely this same scenario up to the confrontation played out and ZERO shootings. He is NO vigilante.
Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad. Besides, it appears that there was no eyewitness to the relevant seconds leading up to and including the gunshot. I'd trust a tape recording more.
Your right. Mary Cutcher is a good earwitness and 'John' is a good eyewitness.
I hope you aren't suggesting that we throw out 'Johns' statements on the premise that there have been some other eyewitnesses in history that have been inaccurate.
I still find it very unlikely that Zimmerman could have posed a threat to Trayvon while he has a bloody nose with likely impaired vision as well and and lacerations on the back of his head.
Have the so called voice experts said that all voices aren't Zimmerman or have they said only the last scream?
I'll take 'Johns' statement because he was fucking there and there is likely no reason at this point to think he's a shitty witness.
Part of the reason I have been soo staunch in defending Zimmerman is that there has been no solid common sense or evidence to suggest he is lying.
46+ times calling police and this and very likely this same scenario up to the confrontation played out and ZERO shootings. He is NO vigilante.
The St.Fl. vs.Zimmerman affidavit ..what is in the Affidavit ..to support a criminal charge under Florida law of second degree murder against Zimmerman ?
It say's Zimmerman was “profiling” Martin...profiling is completely legal,at least by a citizen..so long as it not based on race, religion, sex, etc. there is no allagation of improper purpose here..unless they are claiming Zimmerman profiled him as an" a-hole" and a "punk" ..is this illegal conduct ? No.
The affidavit say's Zimmerman "assumed Martin was a criminal"..where in this document is this supported and attributed to provide probable cause for the crime charged ?
Sufficient information to cover all elements necessary for the action,must be in the Affidavit ..I can't find it ..
It describes a call Martin was on supposedly having with a girl friend at the time he was being observed and followed by Zimmerman ...Did she give a sworn statement ?...all elements necessary for the action must be in the Affidavit..I didn't see one..
..“Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.” there is no indication whatsoever given in the affidavit supporting or attributing this statement ..
“During this time period witnesses heard numerous call for help and some of these were recorded in 911 calls to police.” What specific witnesses is this attributed to ?...None that I can find..
“Trayvon Martin’s mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice calling for help as Trayvon Martin’s voice.” Which 911 calls? .....Zimmermans the neighbors ..which neighbor ? Sufficient information to cover all requisite elements necessary for the charge of 2nd degree murder .. must be actually in the affidavit ....
There is nothing in the Affidavit saying who initiated the physical portion of the “struggle” or who was doing what to whom .........
I don't see anything, but a bunch of unsupported and wholly conclusory statements...and I agree with Dershowitz it is a disgrace... "This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,”..... “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”...~ Dershowitz..
The St.Fl. vs.Zimmerman affidavit ..what is in the Affidavit ..to support a criminal charge under Florida law of second degree murder against Zimmerman ?
It say's Zimmerman was “profiling” Martin...profiling is completely legal,at least by a citizen..so long as it not based on race, religion, sex, etc. there is no allagation of improper purpose here..unless they are claiming Zimmerman profiled him as an" a-hole" and a "punk" ..is this illegal conduct ? No.
The affidavit say's Zimmerman "assumed Martin was a criminal"..where in this document is this supported and attributed to provide probable cause for the crime charged ?
Sufficient information to cover all elements necessary for the action,must be in the Affidavit ..I can't find it ..
It describes a call Martin was on supposedly having with a girl friend at the time he was being observed and followed by Zimmerman ...Did she give a sworn statement ?...all elements necessary for the action must be in the Affidavit..I didn't see one..
..“Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.” there is no indication whatsoever given in the affidavit supporting or attributing this statement ..
“During this time period witnesses heard numerous call for help and some of these were recorded in 911 calls to police.” What specific witnesses is this attributed to ?...None that I can find..
“Trayvon Martin’s mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice calling for help as Trayvon Martin’s voice.” Which 911 calls? .....Zimmermans the neighbors ..which neighbor ? Sufficient information to cover all requisite elements necessary for the charge of 2nd degree murder .. must be actually in the affidavit ....
There is nothing in the Affidavit saying who initiated the physical portion of the “struggle” or who was doing what to whom .........
I don't see anything, but a bunch of unsupported and wholly conclusory statements...and I agree with Dershowitz it is a disgrace... "This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,”..... “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”...~ Dershowitz..
Your right. Mary Cutcher is a good earwitness and 'John' is a good eyewitness.
I hope you aren't suggesting that we throw out 'Johns' statements on the premise that there have been some other eyewitnesses in history that have been inaccurate.
I still find it very unlikely that Zimmerman could have posed a threat to Trayvon while he has a bloody nose with likely impaired vision as well and and lacerations on the back of his head.
Have the so called voice experts said that all voices aren't Zimmerman or have they said only the last scream?
I'll take 'Johns' statement because he was fucking there and there is likely no reason at this point to think he's a shitty witness.
Part of the reason I have been soo staunch in defending Zimmerman is that there has been no solid common sense or evidence to suggest he is lying.
46+ times calling police and this and very likely this same scenario up to the confrontation played out and ZERO shootings. He is NO vigilante.
He probably hadn't scared & provoked someone to the point of a physical altercation like that before. And then he snapped after the so-called "bad guy" actually had the audacity to hit him & do some damage. From what I read, there had already been a meeting of the HOA board to discuss Zimmerman as there were probably complaints from folks who he called on who were involved in no wrong doing. I find it interesting that has a watch captain that lived in the neighborhood for who knows how long, only 1 guy that I've seen has stepped up to stand behind him. And what better way to redeem himself in the eyes of the neighborhood/HOA than to catch a guy that really was up to no good after all the calls that turned out to be needless, creating complaints & making them think he was kinda weird about it?
Any normal watch captain in a nice neighborhood that saw someone that looked suspicious (but not peeking in windows or doing anything criminal) after a rash of burglaries (or not) would just drive or walk straight up to them & ask politely if they lived there...they answer & that's that. If there's a question or discussion, they identify themselves as part of a neighborhood watch group & maybe add that there's been alot of burglaries going on recently & that's it. Either that or if they do call 911, that's it..they've done their job & they wait for the cops. Not stare down a guy from a distance, then stalk & follow him.
Z's story is fictional & he knows it... I'm sure the prosecution already knows they can poke holes in it. Who knows, they might have a witness we don't know about who saw how the fight started & the whole thing - lots of folks close by in those townhouses.
Your right. Mary Cutcher is a good earwitness and 'John' is a good eyewitness.
I hope you aren't suggesting that we throw out 'Johns' statements on the premise that there have been some other eyewitnesses in history that have been inaccurate.
I still find it very unlikely that Zimmerman could have posed a threat to Trayvon while he has a bloody nose with likely impaired vision as well and and lacerations on the back of his head.
Have the so called voice experts said that all voices aren't Zimmerman or have they said only the last scream?
I'll take 'Johns' statement because he was fucking there and there is likely no reason at this point to think he's a shitty witness.
Part of the reason I have been soo staunch in defending Zimmerman is that there has been no solid common sense or evidence to suggest he is lying.
46+ times calling police and this and very likely this same scenario up to the confrontation played out and ZERO shootings. He is NO vigilante.
He probably hadn't scared & provoked someone to the point of a physical altercation like that before. And then he snapped after the so-called "bad guy" actually had the audacity to hit him & do some damage. From what I read, there had already been a meeting of the HOA board to discuss Zimmerman as there were probably complaints from folks who he called on who were involved in no wrong doing. I find it interesting that has a watch captain that lived in the neighborhood for who knows how long, only 1 guy that I've seen has stepped up to stand behind him. And what better way to redeem himself in the eyes of the neighborhood/HOA than to catch a guy that really was up to no good after all the calls that turned out to be needless, creating complaints & making them think he was kinda weird about it?
Any normal watch captain in a nice neighborhood that saw someone that looked suspicious (but not peeking in windows or doing anything criminal) after a rash of burglaries (or not) would just drive or walk straight up to them & ask politely if they lived there...they answer & that's that. If there's a question or discussion, they identify themselves as part of a neighborhood watch group & maybe add that there's been alot of burglaries going on recently & that's it. Either that or if they do call 911, that's it..they've done their job & they wait for the cops. Not stare down a guy from a distance, then stalk & follow him.
Z's story is fictional & he knows it... I'm sure the prosecution already knows they can poke holes in it. Who knows, they might have a witness we don't know about who saw how the fight started & the whole thing - lots of folks close by in those townhouses.
As far as I read the law, Z could have started it and it doesn't matter.
The question is simply was he in fear of his life when he pulled the trigger.
If he even threw the first punch, if some kid then drops you and is pounding your head into the pavement saying " you are going to die tonight ", then Z is justified in using deadly force
( I realize it was Zs father who said T said " you are going to die tonight " ) If Z also made that statement the night of the shooting, I don't know how you refute that
You're right, that is by far the most important legal question. But if noone witnessed it right before & as he pulled the trigger OR how the fight started then his story & all the other witnesses & evidence (including circumstantial) will play a large role.
Don't understand what you're saying about what Z & his father said & how you can't refute it
As far as I read the law, Z could have started it and it doesn't matter.
The question is simply was he in fear of his life when he pulled the trigger.
If he even threw the first punch, if some kid then drops you and is pounding your head into the pavement saying " you are going to die tonight ", then Z is justified in using deadly force
( I realize it was Zs father who said T said " you are going to die tonight " ) If Z also made that statement the night of the shooting, I don't know how you refute that
You're right, that is by far the most important legal question. But if noone witnessed it right before & as he pulled the trigger OR how the fight started then his story & all the other witnesses & evidence (including circumstantial) will play a large role.
Don't understand what you're saying about what Z & his father said & how you can't refute it
One intriguing anomaly with the Florida law is it does not appear to designate a party as the 'primary' or 'initial' aggressor. Most states have self defense laws that use such language.
I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute.
One intriguing anomaly with the Florida law is it does not appear to designate a party as the 'primary' or 'initial' aggressor. Most states have self defense laws that use such language.
I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute.
"I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute. "
Dj, are you saying ..................
Tray was standing his ground while on top of Zimmerman,..whereas Zimmerman was standing his ground laying on the ground under him ?
"I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute. "
Dj, are you saying ..................
Tray was standing his ground while on top of Zimmerman,..whereas Zimmerman was standing his ground laying on the ground under him ?
"I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute. "
Dj, are you saying ..................
Tray was standing his ground while on top of Zimmerman,..whereas Zimmerman was standing his ground laying on the ground under him ?
What he meant to say is that IF Z had pulled the gun on him early on then Tray had reason to stand his ground.
"I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute. "
Dj, are you saying ..................
Tray was standing his ground while on top of Zimmerman,..whereas Zimmerman was standing his ground laying on the ground under him ?
What he meant to say is that IF Z had pulled the gun on him early on then Tray had reason to stand his ground.
What he meant to say is that IF Z had pulled the gun on him early on then Tray had reason to stand his ground.
TY, I see..Trayvon would have a legal right to stand his ground..but if Trayvon had good reason he would have continued back to the place his was staying since he was well ahead of Zimmerman..
What he meant to say is that IF Z had pulled the gun on him early on then Tray had reason to stand his ground.
TY, I see..Trayvon would have a legal right to stand his ground..but if Trayvon had good reason he would have continued back to the place his was staying since he was well ahead of Zimmerman..
Any normal watch captain in a nice neighborhood that saw someone that looked suspicious (but not peeking in windows or doing anything criminal) after a rash of burglaries (or not) would just drive or walk straight up to them & ask politely if they lived there...they answer & that's that. If there's a question or discussion, they identify themselves as part of a neighborhood watch group & maybe add that there's been alot of burglaries going on recently & that's it. Either that or if they do call 911, that's it..they've done their job & they wait for the cops. Not stare down a guy from a distance, then stalk & follow him.
Z's story is fictional & he knows it... I'm sure the prosecution already knows they can poke holes in it. Who knows, they might have a witness we don't know about who saw how the fight started & the whole thing - lots of folks close by in those townhouses.
Cashin, If they wanted to catch some of the burglars the surely would not try to let on that they are being watched. I don't think Zimmerman wanted T to know he was watching him but theres no way to know that. But they wouldn't necessarily have politely asked. One neighbor has spoken up and admitted that Zimmermans actions caught a burglary in progress.
George Zimmerman's Sanford, Fla., neighbor, said the neighborhood watchman protected his residence from a potential burglary several weeks before the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN's "Starting Point" that his house was in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.
"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented in the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.
"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."......
What you say makes little sense and you are grasping at straws to even keep your story alive.
Any normal watch captain in a nice neighborhood that saw someone that looked suspicious (but not peeking in windows or doing anything criminal) after a rash of burglaries (or not) would just drive or walk straight up to them & ask politely if they lived there...they answer & that's that. If there's a question or discussion, they identify themselves as part of a neighborhood watch group & maybe add that there's been alot of burglaries going on recently & that's it. Either that or if they do call 911, that's it..they've done their job & they wait for the cops. Not stare down a guy from a distance, then stalk & follow him.
Z's story is fictional & he knows it... I'm sure the prosecution already knows they can poke holes in it. Who knows, they might have a witness we don't know about who saw how the fight started & the whole thing - lots of folks close by in those townhouses.
Cashin, If they wanted to catch some of the burglars the surely would not try to let on that they are being watched. I don't think Zimmerman wanted T to know he was watching him but theres no way to know that. But they wouldn't necessarily have politely asked. One neighbor has spoken up and admitted that Zimmermans actions caught a burglary in progress.
George Zimmerman's Sanford, Fla., neighbor, said the neighborhood watchman protected his residence from a potential burglary several weeks before the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN's "Starting Point" that his house was in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.
"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented in the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.
"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."......
What you say makes little sense and you are grasping at straws to even keep your story alive.
TY, I see..Trayvon would have a legal right to stand his ground..but if Trayvon had good reason he would have continued back to the place his was staying since he was well ahead of Zimmerman..
Based on what was reportedly found in his backpack besides the baggie with seeds in it,( womens jewelery and burglary tool ) I'm not convinced that Trayvon wasn't casing the houses on his way back from 7-11. He may have chosen the 'scenic' route.
Perhaps if/when Zimmerman takes the stand he can expound on what made him believe T was up to no good.
TY, I see..Trayvon would have a legal right to stand his ground..but if Trayvon had good reason he would have continued back to the place his was staying since he was well ahead of Zimmerman..
Based on what was reportedly found in his backpack besides the baggie with seeds in it,( womens jewelery and burglary tool ) I'm not convinced that Trayvon wasn't casing the houses on his way back from 7-11. He may have chosen the 'scenic' route.
Perhaps if/when Zimmerman takes the stand he can expound on what made him believe T was up to no good.
Cashin, If they wanted to catch some of the burglars the surely would not try to let on that they are being watched. I don't think Zimmerman wanted T to know he was watching him but theres no way to know that. But they wouldn't necessarily have politely asked. One neighbor has spoken up and admitted that Zimmermans actions caught a burglary in progress.
George Zimmerman's Sanford, Fla., neighbor, said the neighborhood watchman protected his residence from a potential burglary several weeks before the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN's "Starting Point" that his house was in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.
"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented in the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.
"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."......
What you say makes little sense and you are grasping at straws to even keep your story alive.
That's 1 case & ironically now I know why this is the only guy (Taaffe) that has spoke out in Z's defense. Why have there been no other neighbors, HOA board members or fellow watchmen to come forward to at least defend his character & say they know him & know he wouldn't or couldn't do anything like that unless it was purely in self defense?
I have no story & am not a lawyer. I'm just going on what I've heard & read so far & I don't buy Z's story in the least. Yes, based on the SYG staute in Fla & unless the prosecution has much stronger evidence or testimony than we know so far (which they may have), Z is likely to walk. But imo that would only show how flawed the SYG statute is & how in certain cases it undermines the fairness of the justice system & sanctity of human life.
Cashin, If they wanted to catch some of the burglars the surely would not try to let on that they are being watched. I don't think Zimmerman wanted T to know he was watching him but theres no way to know that. But they wouldn't necessarily have politely asked. One neighbor has spoken up and admitted that Zimmermans actions caught a burglary in progress.
George Zimmerman's Sanford, Fla., neighbor, said the neighborhood watchman protected his residence from a potential burglary several weeks before the shooting of Trayvon Martin.
Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN's "Starting Point" that his house was in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.
"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented in the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.
"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."......
What you say makes little sense and you are grasping at straws to even keep your story alive.
That's 1 case & ironically now I know why this is the only guy (Taaffe) that has spoke out in Z's defense. Why have there been no other neighbors, HOA board members or fellow watchmen to come forward to at least defend his character & say they know him & know he wouldn't or couldn't do anything like that unless it was purely in self defense?
I have no story & am not a lawyer. I'm just going on what I've heard & read so far & I don't buy Z's story in the least. Yes, based on the SYG staute in Fla & unless the prosecution has much stronger evidence or testimony than we know so far (which they may have), Z is likely to walk. But imo that would only show how flawed the SYG statute is & how in certain cases it undermines the fairness of the justice system & sanctity of human life.
"I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute. "
Dj, are you saying ..................
Tray was standing his ground while on top of Zimmerman,..whereas Zimmerman was standing his ground laying on the ground under him ?
There are any number of ways Martin could have been standing his ground & doing whatever he did in self defense. Z never identified himself as a watchman or even anyone who lived there. To Martin, who's in a strange neighborhood himself, he's just a guy who was watching & following him for whatever reason while he knows he's doing nothing wrong & belongs there. He could have seen Z's gun, Z could have grabbed or tried to detain him physically in some way (to get him to wait for the cops), could have pushed him or whatever...we don't know.
"I said it as the start of this. It is theoretically possible for both Martin and Zimmerman to have obtained the legal right during the encounter to 'stand their ground' making Zimmerman's actions legal under the statute. "
Dj, are you saying ..................
Tray was standing his ground while on top of Zimmerman,..whereas Zimmerman was standing his ground laying on the ground under him ?
There are any number of ways Martin could have been standing his ground & doing whatever he did in self defense. Z never identified himself as a watchman or even anyone who lived there. To Martin, who's in a strange neighborhood himself, he's just a guy who was watching & following him for whatever reason while he knows he's doing nothing wrong & belongs there. He could have seen Z's gun, Z could have grabbed or tried to detain him physically in some way (to get him to wait for the cops), could have pushed him or whatever...we don't know.
That's 1 case & ironically now I know why this is the only guy (Taaffe) that has spoke out in Z's defense. Why have there been no other neighbors, HOA board members or fellow watchmen to come forward to at least defend his character & say they know him & know he wouldn't or couldn't do anything like that unless it was purely in self defense?
I have no story & am not a lawyer. I'm just going on what I've heard & read so far & I don't buy Z's story in the least. Yes, based on the SYG staute in Fla & unless the prosecution has much stronger evidence or testimony than we know so far (which they may have), Z is likely to walk. But imo that would only show how flawed the SYG statute is & how in certain cases it undermines the fairness of the justice system & sanctity of human life.
Oh, I dunno, maybe because they are afraid to lose their job, or get killed, get mamed, beat up, accosted, pistol wipped, defamed, berated by Lawrence O'donnell.
That's 1 case & ironically now I know why this is the only guy (Taaffe) that has spoke out in Z's defense. Why have there been no other neighbors, HOA board members or fellow watchmen to come forward to at least defend his character & say they know him & know he wouldn't or couldn't do anything like that unless it was purely in self defense?
I have no story & am not a lawyer. I'm just going on what I've heard & read so far & I don't buy Z's story in the least. Yes, based on the SYG staute in Fla & unless the prosecution has much stronger evidence or testimony than we know so far (which they may have), Z is likely to walk. But imo that would only show how flawed the SYG statute is & how in certain cases it undermines the fairness of the justice system & sanctity of human life.
Oh, I dunno, maybe because they are afraid to lose their job, or get killed, get mamed, beat up, accosted, pistol wipped, defamed, berated by Lawrence O'donnell.
There are any number of ways Martin could have been standing his ground & doing whatever he did in self defense. Z never identified himself as a watchman or even anyone who lived there.
Cashin, how do we know this to be fact ?
I don't remember sesing it in the police report and it's not in the Affidavit ........
There are any number of ways Martin could have been standing his ground & doing whatever he did in self defense. Z never identified himself as a watchman or even anyone who lived there.
Cashin, how do we know this to be fact ?
I don't remember sesing it in the police report and it's not in the Affidavit ........
Oh, I dunno, maybe because they are afraid to lose their job, or get killed, get mamed, beat up, accosted, pistol wipped, defamed, berated by Lawrence O'donnell.
Just a few reasons.
You mean like Martin's teacher who was fired because she started a fund in his name? Or maybe it's all of the above plus the fact they know he's ridiculously overzealous & could well have lied & be guilty
Wonder what the 2 guys who Z called 911 about because they were trying to get in their vehicle after locking themselves out would have to say?
Oh, I dunno, maybe because they are afraid to lose their job, or get killed, get mamed, beat up, accosted, pistol wipped, defamed, berated by Lawrence O'donnell.
Just a few reasons.
You mean like Martin's teacher who was fired because she started a fund in his name? Or maybe it's all of the above plus the fact they know he's ridiculously overzealous & could well have lied & be guilty
Wonder what the 2 guys who Z called 911 about because they were trying to get in their vehicle after locking themselves out would have to say?
You mean like Martin's teacher who was fired because she started a fund in his name? Or maybe it's all of the above plus the fact they know he's ridiculously overzealous & could well have lied & be guilty
Wonder what the 2 guys who Z called 911 about because they were trying to get in their vehicle after locking themselves out would have to say?
As Mr Miyagi would say..."Afraid a fax meexed up"
Trayvon's teacher moved to Michigan?
Overzealous is not criminal and many would say they'd rather be safe then sorry. Many people would also say they wan't the neighborhood to be watched.
I wouldn't mind having the cops called on me erroneously if it meant my neighborhood is safer.
You would rather cars get stolen as apposed to a cop checking things out?
You mean like Martin's teacher who was fired because she started a fund in his name? Or maybe it's all of the above plus the fact they know he's ridiculously overzealous & could well have lied & be guilty
Wonder what the 2 guys who Z called 911 about because they were trying to get in their vehicle after locking themselves out would have to say?
As Mr Miyagi would say..."Afraid a fax meexed up"
Trayvon's teacher moved to Michigan?
Overzealous is not criminal and many would say they'd rather be safe then sorry. Many people would also say they wan't the neighborhood to be watched.
I wouldn't mind having the cops called on me erroneously if it meant my neighborhood is safer.
You would rather cars get stolen as apposed to a cop checking things out?
"Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad"..ok fair enough and I can agree.
So if it comes out that is was Zimmerman who was yelling for "help" and screaming wouldn't you agree, that he has a good case for claiming self-defense?
Yes, if Z was in fact the one screaming and crying for help in the seconds leading up to the gunshot then he has a very good case. I really think if those screams in the seconds leading up to and ending with the shot can be positively identified then that may well be outcome determinative.
"Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad"..ok fair enough and I can agree.
So if it comes out that is was Zimmerman who was yelling for "help" and screaming wouldn't you agree, that he has a good case for claiming self-defense?
Yes, if Z was in fact the one screaming and crying for help in the seconds leading up to the gunshot then he has a very good case. I really think if those screams in the seconds leading up to and ending with the shot can be positively identified then that may well be outcome determinative.
I don't remember sesing it in the police report and it's not in the Affidavit ........
Well, it's never been reported anywhere & I'd think if he did identify himself, it would have. Though there does seem to be some confusion on whether the exchanged words once or twice -
I don't remember sesing it in the police report and it's not in the Affidavit ........
Well, it's never been reported anywhere & I'd think if he did identify himself, it would have. Though there does seem to be some confusion on whether the exchanged words once or twice -
Well, it's never been reported anywhere & I'd think if he did identify himself, it would have. Though there does seem to be some confusion on whether the exchanged words once or twice -
What makes you think he is obligated to identify himself at all? Especially since he was reportedly on his way to the store and not on patrol as a NW captain.
Even if he does have to identify himself, Trayvon never had the right to sucker punch him or start a tussle. Even if he saw his gun in a holster that is nothing that reasonably should make him fear for his life or serious bodily harm. If that were the case anybody could see a gun in sombodys holster and start throwing down on them.
Well, it's never been reported anywhere & I'd think if he did identify himself, it would have. Though there does seem to be some confusion on whether the exchanged words once or twice -
What makes you think he is obligated to identify himself at all? Especially since he was reportedly on his way to the store and not on patrol as a NW captain.
Even if he does have to identify himself, Trayvon never had the right to sucker punch him or start a tussle. Even if he saw his gun in a holster that is nothing that reasonably should make him fear for his life or serious bodily harm. If that were the case anybody could see a gun in sombodys holster and start throwing down on them.
Well, it's never been reported anywhere & I'd think if he did identify himself, it would have. Though there does seem to be some confusion on whether the exchanged words once or twice -
Yes, there are reported versions... someone told someone that Zimmerman never identified himself as a watchman or even anyone who lived there..like Trayvon's father's recall of what Investigator Chris Serino, told him ..and the newspapers report from leaks from Sanford police.. or what Trayvon's girlfriend may have said what happened ....but we do not have any verifiable facts of what took place...,and whether or not Zimmerman identified himself or not to Trayvon..
But, If they did exchange words twice on two different occasions ..it would have been because Trayvon wasn't as scared of someone following him as projected and that he did not continue on his path to the place were he was staying ..but hung around and or doubled-back for a second encounter....
Well, it's never been reported anywhere & I'd think if he did identify himself, it would have. Though there does seem to be some confusion on whether the exchanged words once or twice -
Yes, there are reported versions... someone told someone that Zimmerman never identified himself as a watchman or even anyone who lived there..like Trayvon's father's recall of what Investigator Chris Serino, told him ..and the newspapers report from leaks from Sanford police.. or what Trayvon's girlfriend may have said what happened ....but we do not have any verifiable facts of what took place...,and whether or not Zimmerman identified himself or not to Trayvon..
But, If they did exchange words twice on two different occasions ..it would have been because Trayvon wasn't as scared of someone following him as projected and that he did not continue on his path to the place were he was staying ..but hung around and or doubled-back for a second encounter....
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