Originally posted by the unpunished basher cdnumbers:
So now we train older firefighters to be cops writing tickets and investigating accidents. What do we do with all the older cops then? So if we keep all these older cops and firefighters on the job, guys like you would be bitching about why the cities have so many workers
Lets just say we have a city that has 150 firefighters and say 225 cops. Lets keep all the older firefighters and cops around until they hit say 70.
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Cd, the older firefighters and cops could be traffic cops until 60 or 65 like the rest of us. Surely you've figured out that it wouldnt cost any more because they are already getting paid via the pension plans.
Bowlslit, are you drinking? where do you come up this crap?
Honestly even your fellow right wingers have got to be laughing at you.
So first off you want to train a firefighter to now be a cop, which is an entirely differnt occupation
Next you want to pay all these older firefighters and cops with the money they already earned in their pensions? So a cop who puts in say 25 years and leaves the job with half pay pension, now has to work another 25 years at half pay{because thats what his pension is} Thats not a pension, if after you retire, you still have to work each day, in order to get your pension money.
Thats a good one, pay guys to work for their own money again
You just cant grasp the complex nature of these jobs and how differnt they are from other jobs.
I said it yesterday, there is no way you can sell insurance policies for a living and come up with ideas like that, which make zero sense. If you do, then i truly feel bad for the insurance company you work for because they are for sure getting screwed having you on the payroll
originally posted by the unpunished basher cdnumbers:
So first off you want to train a firefighter to now be a cop, which is an entirely differnt occupation
In my city they already cross train cops and firefighters. Not a big deal or a deal breaker as you infer.
Whether or not they already earned their pension is subjective.
In the private sector, workers cannot retire until a certain age. So they 'earn' their pensions at a dramatically slower rate. And I might add that public workers 'earn' theirs at an un-affordable rate.
Why do some believe crap like this: It costs 3500 bucks everytime a fire truck pulls out of the firehall in Wasington D.C.?
This is total made up crap. Firefighters already get paid for their whole shift, so there is no added cost every call they have to go on. The only added expense on each call would be the fuel used and unless they are driving the truck across country, its not gonna use 3500 in fuel and whatever no reusable supplies they have to use on calls {which really is already figured into the yearly budgets}
It really is a shame that there are people out there, trying to make people believe this kind of bullshit. Any person, with just a 10 percent brain should be able to figure out those numbers are false.
People that come up with this garbage are doing it to deflect from the real crooks out there fleecing the taxpayers.
I find it amazing how some of you can sit here at take shots at cops and firefighters who are doing a job, most dont even want to do, for the good of society, yet you dont say anything about the hundreds and hundreds of billions lost each year in corporate welfare. Very sad how some of you think
bash the regular guy and let the fatcat get away with murder
will you stop trying to compare these 2 jobs to other jobs.
what city is cross training firefighters to be cops? Thats entirely 2 differnt animals.
your full of shit with this latest post.
So now your also saying they didnt earn their pensions? even thou when they came on the job, these were the things that were in the contract. Then if they arent going to be given their pensions they agreed to work for, then the cities should have paid them more money and they could have made their own retirement fund.
Your thought process is beyond belief.
I hope when you retire from your job, your company says sorry we are taking your 401k money away, even thou you worked for it.
also when a cop or firefighter retires, they collect their pension from the state not the city. So theres no way the state is gonna say, in order for you to get your pension money, you now have to work a differnt job for the city you worked for.
The workers might as well just stay working on the job, there would be no reason to retire.
This also hurts the younger kids looking for good paying jobs to start a family, if cops and firefighters just stick around working into their late 60's
Also cross training and actually performing anothers job daily, is 2 entirely differnt things.
Bowlslit, you are talking about pension liabilities over the course of many many years in the making. where as corporate welfare is hundreds of billions each year.
also maybe states should have keep collecting pension funds when the market was good, instead of stopping, because this is what you got now.
wow your posts keep getting funnier and funnier
your right, cops and firefighters have destroyed the economy of the country. we did it, yup
you keep sticking up for those corporate fatcats, nothing will ever change with you
There is no way to know the true numbers.
But you trying to compare pension liabilities created over decades to what corporations cheat the country out of yearly in tax revenues, is like comparing tomatoes to potatoes.
I guess you still havent realized yet, that if corporations didnt have all these shaky loopholes they would be paying more of their share to running our country and maybe we would have a lot debt in some things. But hey you keep 
corporations, while you have to pay more to running our society we live in, you little corporate groupie.
As far as your pension comment about not earning it. You are 100 percent wrong about that.
After a person decides to take a job as a firefighter or cop, there is a set contract what you will be paid, what insurance you will get, how many weeks vacation, what your pension is. If the person decides he wants to take the job, then he is entitled to all the things he agreed to perform the work for. You cant tell people after they worked 25-30 years, that they dont get their pension is 100 percent wrong, because those people already performed the work they were asked to do, to be entitled to that pension. If cities didnt want to pay pensions, then tell people before they take the job, not after they do the work.
Most people when they know they are going to get a pension when they get older, dont go and create another one on the side. People cant go back in time after putting their years in, to start a new retirement fund, its to late their working years are basically over.
This is just plain common decency to pay people for work performed. This goes for all occupations. If you do the work, you get paid.
It would be no differnt then if when you took your job at the insurance company and they agreed to pay you 1000 a week, but at the end of each week, you only get paid 500. Am pretty sure you would be pissed and want the full 1000 a week that you said you would be paid. The big difference in this case is, you can quit and move onto another job, since you arent getting paid what you agreed to. Pretty hard to do for a firefighter or cop after 25-30 years go.
also your other idea of having older cops and firefighters keep working and pay them with their own retirement money is downright comical and blows my mind.
Thats like saying after you retire and you try to collect your 401k money and the insurance company tells you that in order to collect the money that they matched in your 401k plan, you now have to come back to work each day and perform other jobs, then at the end of every week they will pay you with your own 401k money.
yes am sure you and everybody that has a pension, 401k or other type of retirement plan would be okay with.
Like i said earlier some occupations are just a young mans game.
If had you worked either one of these jobs, i would bet every penny i have you would not be on this site posting all these silly ideas. These jobs arent as glamorous as guys like you try to make them out to be. Try living with the bad things both jobs see. It takes a huge mental toll, on type of the physical toll the body takes. Go try fighting a fire in 85 degree weather with high humidity and wearing all the gear a firefighter wears.
Just breathing in some of the smoke and toxins at one house fire is like a person smoking a pack a day for 20 years. This isnt even having to go fight factory fires where all kinds of bad chemcials are involved.
Go battle a tire fire at a junk yard for days, and be around all those toxins.
Go pull mangled bodies of kids out of cars and see how that affects your mind and life.
I could go on and on with examples.
if you can sit here and say that doing this for 25-30 years isnt enough for one person, then all i can say is shame on you.
So while your sitting at your desk collecting your big salary loaded with bonuses, be glad you didnt have to be doing either of these jobs.
CD
You're talking about past contracts.- Apples
I'm talking about future contracts.- Oranges
You're talking about somthing that is obviously unsustainable.
I'm talking about ideas for reform.
I'm pretty sure cops get paid a good salary and aren't taking a pay cut to offset their pensions for the most part.
I'm pretty sure cops get paid a good salary and aren't taking a pay cut to offset their pensions for the most part.
why should they have to take a pay cut now, after they decided to make being a cop their career occupation. If your gonna cut pay, cut it before they take the job, not after they already spend their life doing that job.
Seriously, do you have a decent bone in your body.
Maybe if all the corporations were actually paying their taxes and creating jobs here in this country, there would be enough money toward the functioning of our govt, but hey keep letting the fatcats off the hook, while attacking the people who could very well someday save your life
Far as your favorite fox line " unsustainable" your wrong. It would be very sustainable, if they would just stop pension padding.
cant put in one dollar and take out 2 dollars. the math just doesnt work
Originally posted by dl36:
why not simply answer the question and cut out the BS?
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For starters, see post# 14 then have eyes checked.
You know, I can't stand those idiots that like to criticize but never have a solution of thier own.
I hate that guy.
You can't increase the pensions because then you just get back to the problem we have now. The pension system is pretty much unsustainable even at the lowest levels.
People on pensions benefit enough already because they get to effectively retire 15 years ahead of the rest of us.
Yes firefighters and cops do get to retire earlier then other jobs.
These jobs arent about sitting at a desk all day like you bolwslit.
Just cant accept the fact that these jobs are a young person game, thus the reason for earlier retirement. The body and mind can only take so much.
Why didnt you go work one of these jobs, if you think thats such a big deal. Jusr because you picked a career where a person can work into theior 90's doesnt mean every occupation can do that.
As far as sustainable, you are clueless and dont even know what your talking about. Maybe you should stop being a sheep to fox news and the fat cat corporations.
If they did away with pension padding, then there would always be enough money to pay out, do to the fact these are 2 occupations that will be needed and as population goes up, even more will be needed.
Your hate for firefighters and cops, blinds you to the real facts.
Its pretty funny how the whole economy is crap and the only things you constantly wanna bash is, pensions of fire and police
You bash away while sitting at the desk of the job you hate going to everyday
CD
You've been a carreer firefighter and know little about the private workforce.
What makes you think that fighting fires and being a cop is the hardest job a person can have. Plenty of other private sector occupations are demanding both physically and mentally.
Ever see a career factory worker that looks 20 years older than he already is? I have, and worked with many of them while I was at Alcoa for 15 years.
Most police officers spend most of their time writing tickets and not chasing criminals like you would have us believe.
When I was training to be a cop back in 1992 there were 400 applicants for every one job available.
I don't hate either profession, just don't think there is a far more effecient way to spend our tax dollars and have it go further.
My last post was directed more towards Darryl but thanks for the response.
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