granted, i don't follow this situation much but this is what it looks like to me. nothing happens for a while, then hamas decides to randomly fire some rockets into israel, maybe a few people get killed, maybe not, israel responds by lighting up the palestinian territoy with their muchy greater firepower knocking down key buildings and killing people, then hamas and israel negoetiate a cease fire, it lasts for a few months or a year or so and then hamas randomly fires rockets into israel, and the cycle repeats.
how does either side benefit from this scenario?
my guess is that iran is behind it. the palestinians have to get their rockets from somewhere and i assume it is from iran. when iran needs some distraction to occupy israel and others and take their focus off of what iran is doing, they give some weapons to hamas and tell them to have at it.
i know the palestinians hate israel but assuming some of this is true, they are the ultimate pawns of iran.
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
granted, i don't follow this situation much but this is what it looks like to me. nothing happens for a while, then hamas decides to randomly fire some rockets into israel, maybe a few people get killed, maybe not, israel responds by lighting up the palestinian territoy with their muchy greater firepower knocking down key buildings and killing people, then hamas and israel negoetiate a cease fire, it lasts for a few months or a year or so and then hamas randomly fires rockets into israel, and the cycle repeats.
how does either side benefit from this scenario?
my guess is that iran is behind it. the palestinians have to get their rockets from somewhere and i assume it is from iran. when iran needs some distraction to occupy israel and others and take their focus off of what iran is doing, they give some weapons to hamas and tell them to have at it.
i know the palestinians hate israel but assuming some of this is true, they are the ultimate pawns of iran.
I would think that Hamas' game plan can be found in it's Charter ..
The Hamas Charter : Identifies Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine The charter also states "our struggle against the person is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel".......
In 2006 the Hamas election Manifesto dropped its call for the destruction of Israel .. but at the same time Hamas is still not ready to recognise the right of Israel to exist...
Maybe Hamas' game plan can be found in it's slogan ?
Art. 8 : The Hamas Slogan :
Allah is it's goal,the Prophat it's model ,teh Quran it's Constitution,Jihad it's path and death for the case of Allah it's most subline belief..........
Hamas' Manifesto like it's Charter calls for the murder of person and the elimination of Israel through extremely violent means.
Sounds like a game plan to me ..
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I would think that Hamas' game plan can be found in it's Charter ..
The Hamas Charter : Identifies Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine The charter also states "our struggle against the person is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel".......
In 2006 the Hamas election Manifesto dropped its call for the destruction of Israel .. but at the same time Hamas is still not ready to recognise the right of Israel to exist...
Maybe Hamas' game plan can be found in it's slogan ?
Art. 8 : The Hamas Slogan :
Allah is it's goal,the Prophat it's model ,teh Quran it's Constitution,Jihad it's path and death for the case of Allah it's most subline belief..........
Hamas' Manifesto like it's Charter calls for the murder of person and the elimination of Israel through extremely violent means.
that sounds like a goal. i don't understand the methods being used to achieve the goal.
Their method is first to launch rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities ..when Israel retalitates ..The method calls for the use their own civilians including women and children as human sacrifices by locating and launching their rockets near schools ,playgrounds,mosques and even kindergartens ...
Hamas.. then capitalizes on the death of its people to draw world attention and earn sympathy to recieve humanitarian and monetary aid to rebuild and continue with the goals of their Charter/Manifesto... to obliterateIsrael...
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Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:
that sounds like a goal. i don't understand the methods being used to achieve the goal.
Their method is first to launch rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities ..when Israel retalitates ..The method calls for the use their own civilians including women and children as human sacrifices by locating and launching their rockets near schools ,playgrounds,mosques and even kindergartens ...
Hamas.. then capitalizes on the death of its people to draw world attention and earn sympathy to recieve humanitarian and monetary aid to rebuild and continue with the goals of their Charter/Manifesto... to obliterateIsrael...
First off NOT ALL Palestinians want to obliterate Israel in fact there is such a small amount of Palestinians that feel this way and most are in favor of supporting a two state order with regards to the Fatah movement. Also this is not religious terrorism...... this is nationalist terrorism possibly rooted in religion but there is room for negotiation, unlike the sunni salafists you'll see in saudi arabia or Iraq etc...
However the current leader, Netanyahu wants anything but peace and that's what youll get in the middle east. Violence back and forth.... It all has to do with the internal politics of the current leaders and Netanyahi is an awful one......
Israel has done the same exact thing to a much larger extent. The numbers don't lie....... Israel has killed the Palestinian arabs at a much higher and disproportionate rate than vice versa.
In addition Israel is not tried or suffers any kind of consequences from the civilian deaths they're responsible for.
My personal opinion would be, if I were Israel to declare war or either split Jerusalem in half and recognize Palestine as a state and stop these isolated attacks every year back and forth...
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First off NOT ALL Palestinians want to obliterate Israel in fact there is such a small amount of Palestinians that feel this way and most are in favor of supporting a two state order with regards to the Fatah movement. Also this is not religious terrorism...... this is nationalist terrorism possibly rooted in religion but there is room for negotiation, unlike the sunni salafists you'll see in saudi arabia or Iraq etc...
However the current leader, Netanyahu wants anything but peace and that's what youll get in the middle east. Violence back and forth.... It all has to do with the internal politics of the current leaders and Netanyahi is an awful one......
Israel has done the same exact thing to a much larger extent. The numbers don't lie....... Israel has killed the Palestinian arabs at a much higher and disproportionate rate than vice versa.
In addition Israel is not tried or suffers any kind of consequences from the civilian deaths they're responsible for.
My personal opinion would be, if I were Israel to declare war or either split Jerusalem in half and recognize Palestine as a state and stop these isolated attacks every year back and forth...
It's been true for years that the 'Palestinian' leadership is far more extreme than the people they purport to represent...but the topic is about Hamas and it's game plan....
Dividing Jerusalem will not stop Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood from their goal ,,,Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians live in Jerusalem and nearby areas of the West Bank... Palestinians and person live in Jerusalem already ..
In fact last year a survey, which was designed and supervised by former State Department Middle East researcher David Pollock, found that only 30% said they would prefer to be citizens of Palestine in a two-state solution, while 35 % said they would choose Israeli citizenship. (The rest said they didn't know or refused to answer.)
More than 40 % said that even if Israelis and Palestinians signed a peace deal and East Jerusalem became the capital of a new state, some Palestinian militants would certainly or probably continue an armed struggle against Israel.... A two state Jeruselem is not the solution ..
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It's been true for years that the 'Palestinian' leadership is far more extreme than the people they purport to represent...but the topic is about Hamas and it's game plan....
Dividing Jerusalem will not stop Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood from their goal ,,,Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians live in Jerusalem and nearby areas of the West Bank... Palestinians and person live in Jerusalem already ..
In fact last year a survey, which was designed and supervised by former State Department Middle East researcher David Pollock, found that only 30% said they would prefer to be citizens of Palestine in a two-state solution, while 35 % said they would choose Israeli citizenship. (The rest said they didn't know or refused to answer.)
More than 40 % said that even if Israelis and Palestinians signed a peace deal and East Jerusalem became the capital of a new state, some Palestinian militants would certainly or probably continue an armed struggle against Israel.... A two state Jeruselem is not the solution ..
just seems like allmy life there has been nothing but bloodshed over there...doesn't seem to me that Israel is looking to conquer the ME....but that the extremist arabs whatever DO!
the hatred is inbred and will not end.....
guess I am just not optimistic that any treaty will end the violence there....but then again ....
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be easy...
https://www.masada2000.org/historical.html
just seems like allmy life there has been nothing but bloodshed over there...doesn't seem to me that Israel is looking to conquer the ME....but that the extremist arabs whatever DO!
the hatred is inbred and will not end.....
guess I am just not optimistic that any treaty will end the violence there....but then again ....
Want to see with your own eyes what Hamas is about. Watch and listen to the people that live their and take a tour of the Gaza Strip (not to be confused with the Las Vegas Strip)... It's very enlightening. A woman is sentenced to 6 years in prison for the serious crime of - having a child out of wedlock. Hamas should be the enemies of liberals - they have no tolerance whatsover...
Want to see with your own eyes what Hamas is about. Watch and listen to the people that live their and take a tour of the Gaza Strip (not to be confused with the Las Vegas Strip)... It's very enlightening. A woman is sentenced to 6 years in prison for the serious crime of - having a child out of wedlock. Hamas should be the enemies of liberals - they have no tolerance whatsover...
First off NOT ALL Palestinians want to obliterate Israel in fact there is such a small amount of Palestinians that feel this way and most are in favor of supporting a two state order with regards to the Fatah movement. Also this is not religious terrorism...... this is nationalist terrorism possibly rooted in religion but there is room for negotiation, unlike the sunni salafists you'll see in saudi arabia or Iraq etc...
However the current leader, Netanyahu wants anything but peace and that's what youll get in the middle east. Violence back and forth.... It all has to do with the internal politics of the current leaders and Netanyahi is an awful one......
Israel has done the same exact thing to a much larger extent. The numbers don't lie....... Israel has killed the Palestinian arabs at a much higher and disproportionate rate than vice versa.
In addition Israel is not tried or suffers any kind of consequences from the civilian deaths they're responsible for.
My personal opinion would be, if I were Israel to declare war or either split Jerusalem in half and recognize Palestine as a state and stop these isolated attacks every year back and forth...
We've discussed this issue before. SS is right; Jerusalem is already divided (Bethlehem/Jerusalem and old Jerusalem, surrounded by the walls). The sad reality is that the citizens of those areas actually care much less about the existence of the others than the governments do. Israel, however, goes back and forth between electing aggressive and non-aggressive governments while the Palestinians support for Hamas has been pretty unwavering.
I also disagree with your assertion on the mutuality of the recognization of existence. Israel has absolutely recognized Palestine, the West Bank, and the right of the former to have control over Bethlehem. By the same token, the same cannot be said for Palenstine. The argument over the settlements is a red herring because the settlements actually have both groups living together, which Israel wants to continue. On the other hand, the controlling factions of the Palestinians want Israelis who live in those areas removed. Thank about that for a moment.
Now Israel certainly does not have clean hands; the boarding of the peace vessel a few weeks ago being the prime example of such actions. But the latest flareup is fairly indicative of the continued problems...and note who fired first!
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Quote Originally Posted by Stiln:
First off NOT ALL Palestinians want to obliterate Israel in fact there is such a small amount of Palestinians that feel this way and most are in favor of supporting a two state order with regards to the Fatah movement. Also this is not religious terrorism...... this is nationalist terrorism possibly rooted in religion but there is room for negotiation, unlike the sunni salafists you'll see in saudi arabia or Iraq etc...
However the current leader, Netanyahu wants anything but peace and that's what youll get in the middle east. Violence back and forth.... It all has to do with the internal politics of the current leaders and Netanyahi is an awful one......
Israel has done the same exact thing to a much larger extent. The numbers don't lie....... Israel has killed the Palestinian arabs at a much higher and disproportionate rate than vice versa.
In addition Israel is not tried or suffers any kind of consequences from the civilian deaths they're responsible for.
My personal opinion would be, if I were Israel to declare war or either split Jerusalem in half and recognize Palestine as a state and stop these isolated attacks every year back and forth...
We've discussed this issue before. SS is right; Jerusalem is already divided (Bethlehem/Jerusalem and old Jerusalem, surrounded by the walls). The sad reality is that the citizens of those areas actually care much less about the existence of the others than the governments do. Israel, however, goes back and forth between electing aggressive and non-aggressive governments while the Palestinians support for Hamas has been pretty unwavering.
I also disagree with your assertion on the mutuality of the recognization of existence. Israel has absolutely recognized Palestine, the West Bank, and the right of the former to have control over Bethlehem. By the same token, the same cannot be said for Palenstine. The argument over the settlements is a red herring because the settlements actually have both groups living together, which Israel wants to continue. On the other hand, the controlling factions of the Palestinians want Israelis who live in those areas removed. Thank about that for a moment.
Now Israel certainly does not have clean hands; the boarding of the peace vessel a few weeks ago being the prime example of such actions. But the latest flareup is fairly indicative of the continued problems...and note who fired first!
anything and everything is okay as long as it is in the name of whatever damn GOD you follow..... crazy bullshit ....doesn't matter what religion
It is always interesting to me how certain groups of people honor the freedom of religion that the founding fathers fought and died for in our independence.... while other groups of people appear hell bent on destroying this foundation of religious freedom and fusing their religion into government and basically pissing on separation of church and state
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Quote Originally Posted by AcerRubrum:
anything and everything is okay as long as it is in the name of whatever damn GOD you follow..... crazy bullshit ....doesn't matter what religion
It is always interesting to me how certain groups of people honor the freedom of religion that the founding fathers fought and died for in our independence.... while other groups of people appear hell bent on destroying this foundation of religious freedom and fusing their religion into government and basically pissing on separation of church and state
We've discussed this issue before. SS is right; Jerusalem is already divided (Bethlehem/Jerusalem and old Jerusalem, surrounded by the walls). The sad reality is that the citizens of those areas actually care much less about the existence of the others than the governments do. Israel, however, goes back and forth between electing aggressive and non-aggressive governments while the Palestinians support for Hamas has been pretty unwavering.
I also disagree with your assertion on the mutuality of the recognization of existence. Israel has absolutely recognized Palestine, the West Bank, and the right of the former to have control over Bethlehem. By the same token, the same cannot be said for Palenstine. The argument over the settlements is a red herring because the settlements actually have both groups living together, which Israel wants to continue. On the other hand, the controlling factions of the Palestinians want Israelis who live in those areas removed. Thank about that for a moment.
Now Israel certainly does not have clean hands; the boarding of the peace vessel a few weeks ago being the prime example of such actions. But the latest flareup is fairly indicative of the continued problems...and note who fired first!
My point is most israeli person do not want to split it in half and want jersualem all to themselves. I know that its currently split in half right now.... But for israelis to say that they should have the entire area of jerusalem is absurd...... That area is sacred to muslims, person and christians.......
That's hardly true that all of the palestinian leaders have supported hamas or do not support a peace agreement dividing it in half. A majority support a peace movement to have the state of Palestine recognized and engage in what is known as the Fatah movement.....
What? Israel has certainly not recognized Palestine as a sovereign nation.... It really all comes down to the notion that until these settlements can be worked out peace will not be reached..
Of course once netanyahu is out of office there might be room for negotiation, but he has been absolutely horrible for that country. And I don't see the state of Israel moving in a direction that would be ideal for the future of both countries.
But it seems like the person in israel have this 'right' to do whatever the hell it is they want and like I said in my other thread hide behind the coattails of the United States of America by violating all kinds of international, human rights, and Geneva convention laws.
The only difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian terrorist groups is the idea that revolves around suicide bombing.. The concept of life. Which I don't think you can downplay. I'm not trying to do that here but aside from that aspect it's almost like the Israelis get a free pass to mistreat the Palestinians because of the way the Nazis treated the person during WWII
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Quote Originally Posted by djbrow:
We've discussed this issue before. SS is right; Jerusalem is already divided (Bethlehem/Jerusalem and old Jerusalem, surrounded by the walls). The sad reality is that the citizens of those areas actually care much less about the existence of the others than the governments do. Israel, however, goes back and forth between electing aggressive and non-aggressive governments while the Palestinians support for Hamas has been pretty unwavering.
I also disagree with your assertion on the mutuality of the recognization of existence. Israel has absolutely recognized Palestine, the West Bank, and the right of the former to have control over Bethlehem. By the same token, the same cannot be said for Palenstine. The argument over the settlements is a red herring because the settlements actually have both groups living together, which Israel wants to continue. On the other hand, the controlling factions of the Palestinians want Israelis who live in those areas removed. Thank about that for a moment.
Now Israel certainly does not have clean hands; the boarding of the peace vessel a few weeks ago being the prime example of such actions. But the latest flareup is fairly indicative of the continued problems...and note who fired first!
My point is most israeli person do not want to split it in half and want jersualem all to themselves. I know that its currently split in half right now.... But for israelis to say that they should have the entire area of jerusalem is absurd...... That area is sacred to muslims, person and christians.......
That's hardly true that all of the palestinian leaders have supported hamas or do not support a peace agreement dividing it in half. A majority support a peace movement to have the state of Palestine recognized and engage in what is known as the Fatah movement.....
What? Israel has certainly not recognized Palestine as a sovereign nation.... It really all comes down to the notion that until these settlements can be worked out peace will not be reached..
Of course once netanyahu is out of office there might be room for negotiation, but he has been absolutely horrible for that country. And I don't see the state of Israel moving in a direction that would be ideal for the future of both countries.
But it seems like the person in israel have this 'right' to do whatever the hell it is they want and like I said in my other thread hide behind the coattails of the United States of America by violating all kinds of international, human rights, and Geneva convention laws.
The only difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian terrorist groups is the idea that revolves around suicide bombing.. The concept of life. Which I don't think you can downplay. I'm not trying to do that here but aside from that aspect it's almost like the Israelis get a free pass to mistreat the Palestinians because of the way the Nazis treated the person during WWII
My point is most israeli person do not want to split it in half and want jersualem all to themselves. I know that its currently split in half right now.... But for israelis to say that they should have the entire area of jerusalem is absurd...... That area is sacred to muslims, person and christians.......
That's hardly true that all of the palestinian leaders have supported hamas or do not support a peace agreement dividing it in half. A majority support a peace movement to have the state of Palestine recognized and engage in what is known as the Fatah movement.....
What? Israel has certainly not recognized Palestine as a sovereign nation.... It really all comes down to the notion that until these settlements can be worked out peace will not be reached..
Of course once netanyahu is out of office there might be room for negotiation, but he has been absolutely horrible for that country. And I don't see the state of Israel moving in a direction that would be ideal for the future of both countries.
But it seems like the person in israel have this 'right' to do whatever the hell it is they want and like I said in my other thread hide behind the coattails of the United States of America by violating all kinds of international, human rights, and Geneva convention laws.
The only difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian terrorist groups is the idea that revolves around suicide bombing.. The concept of life. Which I don't think you can downplay. I'm not trying to do that here but aside from that aspect it's almost like the Israelis get a free pass to mistreat the Palestinians because of the way the Nazis treated the person during WWII
Well.....other than the fact that Israel turned over Betlehem, which was geographically part of Jerusalem, to the Palestinians.
I agree that both the Israeli and Palestinian citizens are not necessarily supportive of the most radical within the governments. With that being said, Hamas cannot be considered radical for Palestinian purposes, and that is some of the problem. They are actually fairly mainstream within the government factions. And the fact that they refuse to recognize Israel or its right to exist remains a huge problem.
Israel absolutely recognizes Palestine...their dispute is over land. That is a very key difference between the two nations.
I am not defending all of the actions of Israel but it is certainly understandable given the suicide bombers that you mentioned, why Israel has such heightened security. I also think it is important in understanding the complexities of the region to remember which nation provides the most support to Hamas. That can never be understated.
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Quote Originally Posted by Stiln:
My point is most israeli person do not want to split it in half and want jersualem all to themselves. I know that its currently split in half right now.... But for israelis to say that they should have the entire area of jerusalem is absurd...... That area is sacred to muslims, person and christians.......
That's hardly true that all of the palestinian leaders have supported hamas or do not support a peace agreement dividing it in half. A majority support a peace movement to have the state of Palestine recognized and engage in what is known as the Fatah movement.....
What? Israel has certainly not recognized Palestine as a sovereign nation.... It really all comes down to the notion that until these settlements can be worked out peace will not be reached..
Of course once netanyahu is out of office there might be room for negotiation, but he has been absolutely horrible for that country. And I don't see the state of Israel moving in a direction that would be ideal for the future of both countries.
But it seems like the person in israel have this 'right' to do whatever the hell it is they want and like I said in my other thread hide behind the coattails of the United States of America by violating all kinds of international, human rights, and Geneva convention laws.
The only difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian terrorist groups is the idea that revolves around suicide bombing.. The concept of life. Which I don't think you can downplay. I'm not trying to do that here but aside from that aspect it's almost like the Israelis get a free pass to mistreat the Palestinians because of the way the Nazis treated the person during WWII
Well.....other than the fact that Israel turned over Betlehem, which was geographically part of Jerusalem, to the Palestinians.
I agree that both the Israeli and Palestinian citizens are not necessarily supportive of the most radical within the governments. With that being said, Hamas cannot be considered radical for Palestinian purposes, and that is some of the problem. They are actually fairly mainstream within the government factions. And the fact that they refuse to recognize Israel or its right to exist remains a huge problem.
Israel absolutely recognizes Palestine...their dispute is over land. That is a very key difference between the two nations.
I am not defending all of the actions of Israel but it is certainly understandable given the suicide bombers that you mentioned, why Israel has such heightened security. I also think it is important in understanding the complexities of the region to remember which nation provides the most support to Hamas. That can never be understated.
"The only difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian
terrorist groups is the idea that revolves around suicide bombing.. The
concept of life. Which I don't think you can downplay. I'm not trying
to do that here but aside from that aspect it's almost like the Israelis
get a free pass to mistreat the Palestinians because of the way the
Nazis treated the person during WWII"
The difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian terrorist groups is intent. Palestinian terrorist groups go in and have a goal of killing innocents whereas the Israelis try to take steps to avoid killing innocent bystanders (which is tough when Hamas uses them as human shields).
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"The only difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian
terrorist groups is the idea that revolves around suicide bombing.. The
concept of life. Which I don't think you can downplay. I'm not trying
to do that here but aside from that aspect it's almost like the Israelis
get a free pass to mistreat the Palestinians because of the way the
Nazis treated the person during WWII"
The difference between the Israeli military and Palestinian terrorist groups is intent. Palestinian terrorist groups go in and have a goal of killing innocents whereas the Israelis try to take steps to avoid killing innocent bystanders (which is tough when Hamas uses them as human shields).
djbro, Israeli leaders and the populaces within Israel, a majority of them and the leaders as a whole do not recognize the statehood of Palestine... Look at the current European countries now over the past few days... They're beginning to give them more name recognition and they should.
I don't know how you figure that Isreal absolutely recognizes Palestine. That's what this whole ongoing struggle is about. The dispute over land is the largest aspect of this conflict but the whole notion revolves around Israel and the UN refusing atm to recognize Palestine.
Yeah I understand the with regards to Lebanon and hezbollah where that terrorist group resides and that does still remain a huge problem especially with regards to where their nation is located but it doesn't give them the right to justify their retaliation efforts against civilian populations in west bank, gaza etc....
kapono, I think that's where the common misconception is. I'm not disputing that hamas attacks civilians, what I am saying is that Israel retaliates with the same exactly the same and while they don't appear to target civilians they indiscriminately fire rockets that kill a much larger amount of arab non-combatants.
And the UN does not try Israel for human rights violations, neither does the ICC etc..
You want to read a brilliant article on this topic, check this out. I'm serious, actually read the entire thing. It's worth your time.
djbro, Israeli leaders and the populaces within Israel, a majority of them and the leaders as a whole do not recognize the statehood of Palestine... Look at the current European countries now over the past few days... They're beginning to give them more name recognition and they should.
I don't know how you figure that Isreal absolutely recognizes Palestine. That's what this whole ongoing struggle is about. The dispute over land is the largest aspect of this conflict but the whole notion revolves around Israel and the UN refusing atm to recognize Palestine.
Yeah I understand the with regards to Lebanon and hezbollah where that terrorist group resides and that does still remain a huge problem especially with regards to where their nation is located but it doesn't give them the right to justify their retaliation efforts against civilian populations in west bank, gaza etc....
kapono, I think that's where the common misconception is. I'm not disputing that hamas attacks civilians, what I am saying is that Israel retaliates with the same exactly the same and while they don't appear to target civilians they indiscriminately fire rockets that kill a much larger amount of arab non-combatants.
And the UN does not try Israel for human rights violations, neither does the ICC etc..
You want to read a brilliant article on this topic, check this out. I'm serious, actually read the entire thing. It's worth your time.
"Tell you what, we'll give them the State of Wyoming after person Cheney finally kicks the bucket. More land than they'll know what to do with and they can be neighbors with the Mormons in Utah there Edith."
~~~~~ZOSO~~~~~
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Archie Bunker...
"Tell you what, we'll give them the State of Wyoming after person Cheney finally kicks the bucket. More land than they'll know what to do with and they can be neighbors with the Mormons in Utah there Edith."
"kapono, I think that's where the common misconception is. I'm
not disputing that hamas attacks civilians, what I am saying is that
Israel retaliates with the same exactly the same and while they don't
appear to target civilians they indiscriminately fire rockets that kill a
much larger amount of arab non-combatants."
Well I think I would disagree with you strongly that the Israelis "indiscriminately" fire rockets. They fire them at Hamas operatives, who often surround themselves with civilians or launch attacks from civilian facilities with the knowledge and understanding that the Israelis will retaliate there -- and when they do, Hamas trots out the unfortunate casualties (that were not intended by Israel) for the cameras and for propaganda purposes.
It's really sad. Not only does Hamas intentionally try to kill innocent Israeli civilians -- hard to argue that their rockets only try to attack military facilities of Israeli -- they are more than willing to have their own fellow Palestinian women and children killed to advance their murderous, hateful agenda.
0
"kapono, I think that's where the common misconception is. I'm
not disputing that hamas attacks civilians, what I am saying is that
Israel retaliates with the same exactly the same and while they don't
appear to target civilians they indiscriminately fire rockets that kill a
much larger amount of arab non-combatants."
Well I think I would disagree with you strongly that the Israelis "indiscriminately" fire rockets. They fire them at Hamas operatives, who often surround themselves with civilians or launch attacks from civilian facilities with the knowledge and understanding that the Israelis will retaliate there -- and when they do, Hamas trots out the unfortunate casualties (that were not intended by Israel) for the cameras and for propaganda purposes.
It's really sad. Not only does Hamas intentionally try to kill innocent Israeli civilians -- hard to argue that their rockets only try to attack military facilities of Israeli -- they are more than willing to have their own fellow Palestinian women and children killed to advance their murderous, hateful agenda.
On the same day that Hamas welcomed a UN vote to recognize Palistine ...Hamas reminded everyone, ..Our goal is Israel’s Destruction......“Our land won’t be shared.”
“The Palestinian people will not recognize the resolution ( UN Resolution 181.. recognizing two states ) and will not legitimate the Zionist occupation of the history land of Palestine,” Hama declared.
The “land of Palestine” extends “from the sea to the river, from the north to south of the land,” it added. The land “will not be divided with anyone,” the group insisted.
Hamas declared, “The only way to free all of Palestine and return the stolen lands is through battle.”
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So much for a two state solution.............
On the same day that Hamas welcomed a UN vote to recognize Palistine ...Hamas reminded everyone, ..Our goal is Israel’s Destruction......“Our land won’t be shared.”
“The Palestinian people will not recognize the resolution ( UN Resolution 181.. recognizing two states ) and will not legitimate the Zionist occupation of the history land of Palestine,” Hama declared.
The “land of Palestine” extends “from the sea to the river, from the north to south of the land,” it added. The land “will not be divided with anyone,” the group insisted.
Hamas declared, “The only way to free all of Palestine and return the stolen lands is through battle.”
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