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NFL MVP?

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Posted: #201
How can an MVP have only 8 wins in BY FARRRR the easiest division in football including a losing record vs. winning teams.??????????
 
Doesnt sound like an Mvp to me. Not at all. Sometimes it doesnt really matter if you lead the league in Yds and Td's or whatever category you want to talk about.
 
answer me wallstreet.....actually dont, because as a homer, you have your reasons.
 
 
 
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Posted: #202
Wow, not a lot of love for my pick that I can see.... but
 
 
 
KURT WARNER
 
 
The Cards are in the playoffs with a 1st round home game. Who saw that coming? You gotta give Warner credit.
 
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Posted: #203
sammy,

Let the Cards play 27% winning teams for 7 games, I imagine they would rack up a few more "W"'s like the Colts have.

Tell me this..with the following schedule, how many wins would Indy have-

St.Louis
Seattle
Giants
Philly
Minny

How many wins? I would give them St.Louis and Seattle, maybe..maybe not on the road..but two there. I would give them three losses against Giants, Minny, Philly.

No question the Cards schedule has been tougher down the stretch..no doubt in my mind.

Three losses means the Colts arent in the playoffs, instead they played sh!t teams and are in, good for them.

Some of you speak that the Cards played 5 games this year, that might be true..how many easy games have the Colts played?

SD,Clev (LOST),Cinn,Det, Jax (lost once, one once).

Thats 6 pretty bad teams, 4 wins.

Face it, Indy is the beneficiary of a good schedule..you give the last 7 game schedule to any of the playoff teams and most would win 6 of them.
 
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Posted: #204
You give them a loss to Minny when they already beat Minny in Minny this year...what's that about?

Arizona got killed by them at home.

Out of Baltimore, @Pitt, NE, @SD, @tenn, how many wins will Arizona get against those teams????

I would say maybe 1 although I think SD would give them trouble.

Who cares that the Cards schedule is harder now, it's a 16 game season isn't it?? The fact is the Colts have had a tougher season schedule, face it!  You can say the what if's ands or buts, but here are the facts:

Colts strength of victory: 11 WINS .450 strength of victory
Cards strength of victory: 8 WINS .366 strength of victory

ITS A FACT THE COLTS HAD A TOUGHER SCHEDULE.
They have more wins and more quality wins along with a tougher schedule. 
 
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Posted: #205
They also beat Cleveland 10-6, so it's 5-1.
 
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Posted: #206
Also you said the Cardinals are near last in the run, the Colts are ranked 31st, so that's no excuse...Not to mention Clark, Harrison and 3/5 of their offensive line was injured a majority of the year.
 
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Posted: #207
Minny started slow and have turned it on late, so them winning by 3 at home means very little to me. Minny started out 3-4 like Indy and they TOO have benefitted from an easy second half with wins against Det, GB, Jax and Hou. The only games they have won against winning teams lately are Arizona and Chicago, 4 wins against losing teams and two against winning teams..but that is better than Indy.



That stat about wins vs strength of schedule is misleading, nor does it say OVERALL strength of schedule.

I loved it how the owner of Indy was pimping Manning today for MVP..hilarious. Maybe Abe will pay for more cheeseball commercials so Mannings mug will be on the tube even more.


 
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Posted: #208
Quote Originally Posted by phark:

Wow, I see so many assinine comments in here...NO WAY Manning wins. I will bet my car, house everything on that. He is a fraction of the player he was a few years ago.
 
Brees has his #'s but the team is not gonna sniff the playoffs.
 
People you have to consider: Warner, AP, Ryan(Rookie wont win), and Pennington.
 
Pennington's #'s are not great, but that team did have 1 win last year. I do vote for WARNER


And the award for most retarded comment ever goes to...

Are you serious man? Have you watched Peyton of late? You are borderline retarded to say he is half the player he was. He has less then half the help. Let me know the adress of your house I would like to come check it out.
 
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Posted: #209
I think you considering Houston as a easy win is a exaggeration.  They are at .500 after having a tough start and stretch along with the hurricane. 

So your method is determining how hot the team is coming in and seeing how they are playing within the last couple games?  It's a 16 game season meaning that a team will average out throughout the year.  Determining full year stats is the most effective way in seeing which teams are good and which teams aren't.  Look at the end of the year on strength of victory and strength of schedule to determine who had the tougher schedule.

The Colts just beat Houston who is hot now beating Tenn and winning 4 in a row.  Is that a tougher win for Indy then their win over Baltimore who started off slow because they lost by 3 back to back weeks to the Steelers and Titans before the Colts blew them out?

The Cardinals would have 5-7 wins with the Colts schedule.  The Colts would have 12-13 wins with the schedule the Cardinals have.
 
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Posted: #210
Quote Originally Posted by phark:

Wow, I see so many assinine comments in here...NO WAY Manning wins. I will bet my car, house everything on that. He is a fraction of the player he was a few years ago.
 
Brees has his #'s but the team is not gonna sniff the playoffs.
 
People you have to consider: Warner, AP, Ryan(Rookie wont win), and Pennington.
 
Pennington's #'s are not great, but that team did have 1 win last year. I do vote for WARNER

Assinine?  Yet you have Pennington for MVP consideration?  Get the fuk out here, fuking stupid opinion considering you think it's stupid to have Manning up there.

His last 12 games he has a QB rating of 102, 23 td's 8 ints and the Colts are 10-2.

 

Peyton did have offseason surgery, did you know that?  Once he started to get his legs back he has been on a fuking tear.

 

Ryan is playing great, especially for a rookie, but is he making the correct reads as much as Manning or Warner are against opposing defenses?

 
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Posted: #211

Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

rangerz,

We arent talking about a few QB rating points on those early games for Manning..he was sucking it up seriously.. INTs all over the place and a 50 and under QB rating isnt what we are comparing here.

Manning is 10-2 with a QB rating of 102 23 td's 8ints in his last 12 games.  Overall Manning has a QB rating of 93.8(6th overall and top 5 with all names in MVP consideration)

Look at his numbers, he is the #10 QB, he will improve today but still, he isnt even top 5..not close on YPC, QB rating, TD/INT ratio, yards etc.

Manning top 3 in td's(will change when other QB's play, doubt that much) overall. 

His TD/int ration is better than 2-1 and ranks 2nd overall, leader vs those in the MVP running.

He's top 6 in QB rating, top 5 vs those in the MVP race

Have no fuking idea where you get he is only top 10


Great he improved since the first of the season, but he isnt even top FIVE in most categories.

Sure looks like he is

No way does he deserve MVP.

 
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Posted: #212
against the ravens:
19-28
271 yards 3 touchdowns  
 
against the steelers (In pitt):
21-40
240 yards 3 touchdowns
 
those are pretty good numbers against 2 of the best defenses in the nfl
 
 
 
 
 
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Posted: #213
how about this argument
 
who would you feel more confortable giving your team to?
 
jim sorgi or matt leinert?
 
come on
 
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Posted: #214
Exactly Binka, this isn't just about stats although Manning is comparable in that to basically anyone in the MVP race anyway.

The Colts would win maybe 2 games without him.  The Cardinals could have 5-7 wins maybe even 8 without Warner.
 
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Posted: #215
Quote Originally Posted by fel2718:

Exactly Binka, this isn't just about stats although Manning is comparable in that to basically anyone in the MVP race anyway.

The Colts would win maybe 2 games without him.  The Cardinals could have 5-7 wins maybe even 8 without Warner.


Very very true. Put Warner on the Colts and they have MAYBE 6 wins. Put Peyton on the Cards and they have 11+.
 
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Posted: #216
I think this is a good argument..I want to be open minded to this and the fact that Warner has a better backup shouldn't discount him from winning.

He has had a great season but I think the lack of Competition in that division could be the reason he doesn't get the MVP. 
 
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Posted: #217
You guys are out there in crazy land.

Matty is better than Jim, but what does that have to do with anything?

electriclady, wait for the rest of the league to play before you rate where Manning stands. Before that game last night he was number 10 rating wise, he was 700 yds behind in passing, he had a good TD.INT rate in the Jax game, which he should have..they didnt pressure him at all and have mailed it in on defense, especially defense.

Sorry but you cannot rate a QB only on their good games, if that were the case I would take Warner's perfect game earlier this season and crown him already.


 
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Posted: #218
Also look at Manning's defense.  They are awful against the run and he gets less chances then Warner.  Colts are pretty bad at controlling the clock.

He is behind Warner in attempts right now with a game in hand.  That could be why he is behind in yardage, Warner has almost a game advantage on him in the amount of attempts. 
 
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Posted: #219
Quote Originally Posted by fel2718:

Also look at Manning's defense.  They are awful against the run and he gets less chances then Warner.  Colts are pretty bad at controlling the clock.

He is behind Warner in attempts right now with a game in hand.  That could be why he is behind in yardage, Warner has almost a game advantage on him in the amount of attempts. 


Then measure what we can..YPC, YPG, sacks, % completions etc.

Warner- 68.4% complete, 7.8 YPC, 306 YPG, 24 sacks, 97.5 passer rating

Manning-  66.4% complete, 7.1 YPC, 260.5 YPG, 13 sacks, 93.8 passer rating

Oh and I know Manning had minor surgery offseason, you realize that Warner played half of last season with a soft cast? And he still had a 90 passer rating.

Sorry..you cannot tell me by stats that Manning is better. Warner, Romo, Brees, Rivers are all better.

If SD were in the playoffs would we be having this discussion, or if the Saints were?

Defense comparison is laughable.. Indy better against the pass, worse against the rush..its a push.
 
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Posted: #220
Wallstreet I am curious what your response is to where I mentioned pocket precsense. You never shed your insight on that part of the equation. Also I have had several posts where I askd you pretty much the same question and you seem to always refuse to answer. Cards are 8-6 Colts are 11-4. If you put Warner on the Colts and Peyton on the Cards, what are their records?
 
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Posted: #221
Quote Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:

sammy,

Let the Cards play 27% winning teams for 7 games, I imagine they would rack up a few more "W"'s like the Colts have.

Tell me this..with the following schedule, how many wins would Indy have-

St.Louis
Seattle
Giants
Philly
Minny

How many wins? I would give them St.Louis and Seattle, maybe..maybe not on the road..but two there. I would give them three losses against Giants, Minny, Philly.

No question the Cards schedule has been tougher down the stretch..no doubt in my mind.

Three losses means the Colts arent in the playoffs, instead they played sh!t teams and are in, good for them.

Some of you speak that the Cards played 5 games this year, that might be true..how many easy games have the Colts played?

SD,Clev (LOST),Cinn,Det, Jax (lost once, one once).

Thats 6 pretty bad teams, 4 wins.

Face it, Indy is the beneficiary of a good schedule..you give the last 7 game schedule to any of the playoff teams and most would win 6 of them.
Honestly, I think the COLTS easily go 3-2........its like your excusing the EAGLES loss. The cards made the eagles look good. The eagles and mcnabb were in a WORLD of trouble, then all of a sudden the cards gave them life by playing a complete clunker of a game, especially KURT.

2ND, THE CARDS lost to MINNY, in 'ZONA...........I think the COLTS easily win in indy vs those same VIKINGS.

Just because warner couldnt get a home win vs. the vikes doesnt mean manning wouldnt.
 
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Posted: #222
rangerz,

Sorry I havent been able to answer every little comment since there are so many.

Warner's history and background in the Arena league and with the Rams/Giants tell me he has better pocket presence. Look at the history of both players, pro-rate to make them equal and you will see Warner has been sacked more, been on worse teams more. His years at AZ have been rough..the team has never had a defense, never had an OL, always had a terrible run game.

Outside one bad year, Manning has been on a decent team for the most part and has a veteran team, and good coaches.

If you watch both players, both are extremely precise, I would give an edge to Warner as to throwing skill, an edge to Manning as to taking less risks and being less of a gun slinger and he has great field presence.

I think they are equals in many areas, I think Manning has played on better teams and a more stable environment...but Warner takes MANY more hits and will wait longer to make that play.
 
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Posted: #223
Honestly, you continue to bring up that WARNER avg's 40more PASSING YARDS per game. If you honestly think FITZGERALD AND BOLDIN compared to WAYNE AND HARRISON arent worth 40yds a game then idk what to tell you. If Manning was on those cards he would drop back 2 steps everytime and put up the stats WARNER has, if not better. You wanna mention pressure? Manning is one of the smartest qb's in the league and can read pressure better than anyone. He is smart enough to know when to get rid of the ball quickly without playing like brett favre. You make it seem like if he was on those cards he couldnt do the things warner does, which i find as humorous.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE. WARNER ON THE COLTS DO NOT HAVE 11 WINS, NOT EVEN CLOSE, IF YOU THINK SO THEN

MANNING EASILY GETS 8 VICTORIES IN THAT DIVISION. easily.
 
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Posted: #224
guess we'll have to agree to disagree although i feel like we both have our points and opinions and it'll be difficult for the voters as well.

watch ADRIAN PETERSON win it...which is a possibility, but would make all this discussing useless.
 
 
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Posted: #225
Quote Originally Posted by samuelsosa:

Honestly, you continue to bring up that WARNER avg's 40more PASSING YARDS per game. If you honestly think FITZGERALD AND BOLDIN compared to WAYNE AND HARRISON arent worth 40yds a game then idk what to tell you. If Manning was on those cards he would drop back 2 steps everytime and put up the stats WARNER has, if not better. You wanna mention pressure? Manning is one of the smartest qb's in the league and can read pressure better than anyone. He is smart enough to know when to get rid of the ball quickly without playing like brett favre. You make it seem like if he was on those cards he couldnt do the things warner does, which i find as humorous.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE. WARNER ON THE COLTS DO NOT HAVE 11 WINS, NOT EVEN CLOSE, IF YOU THINK SO THEN

MANNING EASILY GETS 8 VICTORIES IN THAT DIVISION. easily.


EXACTLY the point I made in a prior post of mine. Can't possibly compare the pocket presence of the two.
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