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Kyle Orton vs. Jay Cutler

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Posted: #126
Quote Originally Posted by Gold_Rush:

this has turned into a great thread

so far - yea the nod goes to Orton. But this is a team game
and the broncos have an excellent team

But having said that, you don't see Orton throwing pics
or being strip sacked - he has played out of his mind so far

the question is how long can that last?

And let us be fair. Cutler's best WR is a former Kick Returner
but I have seen flashes of talent from Cutler already
it is going to take some time but Cutler is going to be great

I dont judge after just 6 games but If I had to pick one
for the future I would still take Cutler

As far as the bet on here

I agree with kid vegas. 26 posts does not mean anything
we were all at that 26 # at one point

Personally I prefer a gentleman bet here with members
and save the real money for the the games..

respect on covers is worth a lot to me

I can vouch for kidvegas, I am sure he is good for it 
make a bet and I am sure he would make good.
but why dont you guys make a bet like the loser has to wear 
any avatar the winner chooses for like 6 months




What do you mean? So far, it's basically lasted his whole career. His home record as a starter is like 18-2 or something, best since the early 70's I think. And his record as a starter is like 27-12 or something. It's not like he's having just one good year. The same thing happened in Chicago.

 
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Posted: #127
Quote Originally Posted by mrd654:

What do you mean? So far, it's basically lasted his whole career. His home record as a starter is like 18-2 or something, best since the early 70's I think. And his record as a starter is like 27-12 or something. It's not like he's having just one good year. The same thing happened in Chicago.


Orton' 26-10 as a starter or something like that was imo more of a product of the Bears dominant defense as than Orton winning games for the team.  The same is true for him in Denver.  He "manages" the game and relies on his D to make stops.  He's more of a Trent Dilfer if you ask me.  
 
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Posted: #128

Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Miracle:


Orton' 26-10 as a starter or something like that was imo more of a product of the Bears dominant defense as than Orton winning games for the team.  The same is true for him in Denver.  He "manages" the game and relies on his D to make stops.  He's more of a Trent Dilfer if you ask me.  

I would disagree. The Broncos have a great D, but that doesn't mean he is just managing the game. They have a great running game. He is making quick decisions and accurate throws. His lone INT was a Hail Mary to end the Half against NE. I mean, what are you suppose to do when your special teams score two TD's?

They just have a great all around team. And with a bye also, they just might take it to Baltimore. Denver is winning close games, Baltimore is losing close games.

 

 
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Posted: #129
Yeah, his lone interception, but have you watched the games.  For one, that last pass in Game 1 was an easy pick that should have been made.  The very play before that was another.  Luck like that can play a role in just 6 games.  There was another against NE that the defender just let Marshall take from him.  Orton could easily have 3 or 4 picks now.  This is why stats can be deceptive as a forward-looking predictive tool or talent evaluation until you look at them over a much longer term and examine the game tapes closer.
 
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Posted: #130
Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:

Yeah, his lone interception, but have you watched the games.  For one, that last pass in Game 1 was an easy pick that should have been made.  The very play before that was another.  Luck like that can play a role in just 6 games.  There was another against NE that the defender just let Marshall take from him.  Orton could easily have 3 or 4 picks now.  This is why stats can be deceptive as a forward-looking predictive tool or talent evaluation until you look at them over a much longer term and examine the game tapes closer.


Are you really trying to debate the validity of INT's and back Jay Cutler at the same time.  That pick Cutler threw in the red zone last week was just downright pathetic.  Under pressure, lets loft one off the back foot into a sea of red jerseys and one white jersey.  Orton takes the sack and kicks the field goal there.  INT's will happen to everyone, and yes its important to watch the games because stats are misleading.  With Cutler you get a guy with crazy talent and horrific decision making.  With Orton you get legitimate talent with great intelligence.  Plus, not for nothing, Kyle Orton was lighting it up at Purdue, and then went to the conservative Bears.  Maybe there is some untapped potential with him we are now seeing.  I also think its weird that both Orton and Benson were written off in Chicago and have now emerged elsewhere.......
 
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Posted: #131
mrd654

you remember jason campbell last year was playing without a pick
but eventually he came back to reality and struggled

no one can  keep up that kind of pace in my view
so i wonder if he can do it the whole season

you gotta believe that at one point denver comes back 
to the rest of the pack.

was talking bout the broncos- but your right, hes been solid
 
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Posted: #132
If he lit it up in college so much then why was he passed on 100 times in the 2005 draft?

If you just want to go by INT stats, then Brett Favre was horrific, certainly in his first few seasons.  Favre had 39 INT (vs. just 37 TD) in his first 33 games.  Cutler is at virtually the same stage in his career -- 37 games and has 55 TD vs. 39 INT.  You would have been calling Favre a bust and a horrific decision maker.
 
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Posted: #133

its clearly obvious the broncos raped chitown on this one.  not even debatable.

thanks again bears execs.  I thought crybaby would open a thread thanking bears execs for 30 million 2 year deal after throwning 10 td and 7 picks, 4 fumbles and 1-2 road record.

what a fiasco.  but then again, you guys got gains adams right?? lmao

 
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Posted: #134
 
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Posted: #135
Orton.
 
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Posted: #136
Quote Originally Posted by EDDIE_ROYAL19:

its clearly obvious the broncos raped chitown on this one.  not even debatable.

thanks again bears execs.  I thought crybaby would open a thread thanking bears execs for 30 million 2 year deal after throwning 10 td and 7 picks, 4 fumbles and 1-2 road record.

what a fiasco.  but then again, you guys got gains adams right?? lmao



Let's talk again in about 4 years and see where things went in the interim.  Imma gonna bet that you're wrong.  Time will tell.
 
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Posted: #137

Quote Originally Posted by depeche2:



Let's talk again in about 4 years and see where things went in the interim.  Imma gonna bet that you're wrong.  Time will tell.

4 Years? That is downright laughable. This league is a win ow or you'r e out. This ain't no Notre Dame!  Bears need a new coach. How th  hell did smith even get the job. he is horrible!

 
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Posted: #138
Quote Originally Posted by NONEED4LUCK:

4 Years? That is downright laughable. This league is a win ow or you'r e out. This ain't no Notre Dame!  Bears need a new coach. How th  hell did smith even get the job. he is horrible!



The hell are you talking about?  First of all, I didn't say current wasn't important too.  Bears in particular are 3-2 and are on a good track.  But the goal is also to build a team to compete over the next few years and develop players and not just to sell out for one year.  My point was that over the near to midterm I think Cutler gives his team a better chance for success than Orton.

As for Lovie, he did take the Bears to a Super Bowl, did he not?  Not like he's never had success.  He's 48-37 overall (43-26 since his first season) as Bears coach.  Not exactly at the bottom of the league.  Over the last 4+ seasons, the Bears (I am guessing here) are in the top 5 or so in NFL win %.  Disagree that Lovie is horrible.
 
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Posted: #139
he must just fuck me everytime i bet on them.
 
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Posted: #140
Orton is a coaches QB. He will do what you ask him to. Give him the right plays, and he won't screw it up. He will not lose the game for you, and defenses will much prefer to play with a QB like him.

Cutler is more talented, can make the throws Orton can't, but will do too much at times, including screwing up. He has a higher chance of turnovers.


 
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Posted: #141
Quote Originally Posted by Warblade:

Orton is a coaches QB. He will do what you ask him to. Give him the right plays, and he won't screw it up. He will not lose the game for you, and defenses will much prefer to play with a QB like him.

Cutler is more talented, can make the throws Orton can't, but will do too much at times, including screwing up. He has a higher chance of turnovers.




I realize this appears to be the book at the moment, however obviously the Chicago coaches weren't that fond of hi, given that first they wanted to stick with Grossman for as long as possible and second, they unloaded him.  He screwed up plenty for Chicago, believe me.  Maybe he'll never screw up again.  We'll see.  I'm not ready to annoint him.  Shit, Rex Grossman put more than 6 good games together at one point.  Like I said, give it time and we shall see.

Favre had the label of doing too much and screwing up sometimes too (and has the INT's to prove it) and yet everyone seems to put him among the all-time best.
 
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Posted: #142
Quote Originally Posted by NONEED4LUCK:

Jay Cutler-10TD's 7 INT's 1201 Yards 86.9 Rating Team Record 4-2

 

Kyle Orton- 9TD's 1INT(Hail Mary) 1465 Yards 100.1 Rating Team Record 6-0

 

Looks like Kyle has excelled in this Denver Offense. Can't say the same thing for Cutler. SO you still think Kyle Orton has done nothing to lead his team to 6-0?

Side Note-How about Cedric Benson, 531 yards 4 TD's 4.2 clip

Tank Williams? Who else?

Bears need a new GM

Cutler put up great #s with Denver.....and hes done enough in Chi to have his team at 4-1.........you gonna blame him for losing last Sunday vs ATL????Did he not drive them inside the 10 twice and come away with no points???I guess he greased the ball b4 giving it to Forte?Maybe he told Pace the wrong snap count?It was his fault Olsen blew an assignment?

 

I love how suddenly you guys are saying its a team game.......so Cutlers record not affected by having the 30th ranked D?

 

 

 

 
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Posted: #143
Quote Originally Posted by bucknuts:

Cutler put up great #s with Denver.....and hes done enough in Chi to have his team at 4-1.........you gonna blame him for losing last Sunday vs ATL????Did he not drive them inside the 10 twice and come away with no points???I guess he greased the ball b4 giving it to Forte?Maybe he told Pace the wrong snap count?It was his fault Olsen blew an assignment?

 

I love how suddenly you guys are saying its a team game.......so Cutlers record not affected by having the 30th ranked D?

 

 

 

cutler is a gun slinger. he will throw into double coverage and not think twice. sometimes he makes great plays, other times he turns it over. sure he is going to make more good plays than bad, but it is the bad plays that lose games.

back to the original point of the thread. Team W's are more important than #'s. We'll see what happens the rest of the year.

but I gotta say, this isn't going to be any fun if everyone jumps on the Broncos bandwagon. its much more fun when everyone thinks they suck.

 
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Posted: #144

Quote Originally Posted by scho525:



Are you really trying to debate the validity of INT's and back Jay Cutler at the same time.  That pick Cutler threw in the red zone last week was just downright pathetic.  Under pressure, lets loft one off the back foot into a sea of red jerseys and one white jersey.  Orton takes the sack and kicks the field goal there.  INT's will happen to everyone, and yes its important to watch the games because stats are misleading.  With Cutler you get a guy with crazy talent and horrific decision making.  With Orton you get legitimate talent with great intelligence.  Plus, not for nothing, Kyle Orton was lighting it up at Purdue, and then went to the conservative Bears.  Maybe there is some untapped potential with him we are now seeing.  I also think its weird that both Orton and Benson were written off in Chicago and have now emerged elsewhere.......

1 pass play over 30 yds last season..

 
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Posted: #145

I wont say Cutler doesnt make some bad throws but hes made up for it and given the Bears a chance to win...you cant argue that...Ortons wasnt getting it done PERIOD....Bears lost a few games last season because the OFFENSE couldnt do jack....a few more 1st downs and Bears have 2-3 more wins...ATL,TB and CAR...

 

 
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Posted: #146

Orton had a pretty good year last year and he isn't lookin' too shabby this year either. . . I will take the conservative, game manager type QB with good WRs than the aggressive, gunslinger QB with below avg WRs.  Like I said before, Orton has a better offensive line than Cutler does.  I know he won't throw the ball farther than Elway, but he is pretty accurate (unless he throw to Moss while he's playing CB). 

 
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Posted: #147
Cutlers numbers don't mean shit.  He's 5-6 when he throws for more than 300 yards.  Which to me means he gets his yards when his team in down and forced to throw. 
 
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Posted: #148

Quote Originally Posted by scho525:

Cutlers numbers don't mean shit.  He's 5-6 when he throws for more than 300 yards.  Which to me means he gets his yards when his team in down and forced to throw. 

He played on a team that had the 30th ranked defense....they were always trailing..

I think the Bears WRs/TEs have looked pretty good in fact Knox  can become the 5th rookie since 1970 to score a td in 5 str8 games...Bennett didnt get any time last season and hes looked pretty good as well..

 

 

 
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Posted: #149
Do you honestly think Knox, Bennett, Hester, etc are a good WR corps? 
 
 
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Posted: #150

I didnt say they were great but they have been getting the job done...when Cutler is given the time one of these guys has been open...with all the mistakes that have been made on both sides of the ball they still had a chance to win every game...what else can you ask for?

Can you say right now Knox isnt a good WR..

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