.050

This is dead wrong.  He is an all around cather. Thre are so many other factors that come into play. Catching is by far the most complex postition is baseball. Varitek has mastered the postition, and struggled at the plate.

Your stats are great. i have no argument against them. I have not posted one stat in my agrument. Cathing is a position where in the whole scheme of things, stats are not the bottom line.  Your stats are great but you obviously do not watch the Red Sox on a regular basis.  If you did you would know that he IS a great pitch caller in regards to situation and individual batter. Any expert will agree and history mirrors this (read my second post for 1 of manny examples).  And i never said he was better than Pudge. Is it possible for them to have both mastered the position. Ya, It is.  It is also widly known that the red Sox pitchers are slow from the stretch, putting Tek at a disadvantage. It just seems to be the way John Farrell operates. I am not just an ignorant boston fan who will defend anyone on that team.  In fact im more of a Tigers fan, i have serious problems w/ a lot of Red Sox players (Papelbon is annoying as all hell with his antics and a few other players).  But the only people that think Jason Varetik sucks are people who look at stats and say "hes hitting .050, this guy sucks", and add 0 subjectivity and knowledge of the game to their perspective.  I was having this exact argument with a friend the other day and was 100% backed up by a former MLB baseball player to support my argument (I will not give his name but he was the short stop for the twins durring the 80s). This payer was is not a Red Sox fan at all but lives in the Boston area, watches the Red Sox, and has a very in-depth understanding of baseball.  If you have not watched Varitek on a consistsnt basis and are making these claims based on a statistical persepective thats fine.  All im saying is this guy does more than hit .050, a lot more. 

Hutch, i dont think your really following me buddy. Im not saying your typical defensive stats. Im talking about stuff like setting up hitters, pitch calling, ect. Stuff like when a runners on second and a hitter hitter grounds out to second.  Of course that lookslike 0 for 1 in the box score but it is a productive at bat. In that instance  the hitter is semi-trying to do that (Alex Cora is a perfect example of a player like this, Mark Belhorn is  perfect example of the opposite).   I know this topic is based on opinion but i feel he is by far the best in the league at that (defensive and pitch calling, not hitting of course).  I have no data to supprt my claims (except for the back up by Grag Gange), but i played baseball my whole life and got a full ride to play college so i think i have a in-depth understanding of the stuff that some players do that does not show up in the box score. He might hit .220 but he is keeping hitters off base.  I would agree with you at any other position with out question. to quote Wjeremy97 when talking about jacoby Ellsbury hes said "so you think offense is more important than defense, last time i check you played more D than you are at bat". This is even more true for Tek. He is keeping players off base, keeping balls in the park, making it hard on hitters to put down squeezes, framing pitches, ect. I know my argument has no concrete data to back it up and i understand it can be contoversial.  I just felt like giving a perspective of someone who has an in-depth understanding of the game of baseball, watches the sox almost every night, and judges players performanced based, but not statiscally based.   I dont know if any of you guys get to watch the Red Sox every night, but i do so i have a littel deeper understanding than what the stats show. Anyway, Good Luck with your wagers guys.

AC  

It would be much more logical to use the team ERA and BAA to prove whether he is great, good, or horrible.  You seem to be focused on intangibles but somehow think you have to relate them to baseball.  Why can't you just come out and say he sucks but you guys love him because he's yours.  That's what this argument is really about, because no real baseball fan would ever mistake Varitek for a great or even good catcher.  He is not doing anything you say he is doing...he is not very good.

and of course i was making an overgeneralization, giving that specific example that everyone would rmember in the ALDS. However, It was a 2-0 count and the first 2 pitchers were both up and in like the third.  This way the pitchers do not need to recongnise the squeeze mid pitch and throw up and in.  

overreact on covers

You are forgetting that Posada is the catcher that has been to most playoffs in recent years this was only the first year he misses.