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Posted: #106

Raiders, I appologize, it seems that you were talking to bettingforfun. I am not one to butt in and answer questions for others.

I was be interested to see what you think about my plan for a solution for the GOP in 2016.

Obviously saying the GOP needs to make some fundamental changes is something that some can't handle a convo on and they seem to just meltdown rather than having s dialog.

But I have to be honest about my bias that I am coming a from a place of a non-partisan independent that voted for gw buss twice, obama once and does not want to see hillary as president. So maybe I am biased in that I really want the GOP to win in 2016 (even tho I didn't want them to win in 2008)

Tell me what you think
 
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Posted: #107

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

I may not like it. But I think this is wrong.  There are many people making an awful lot of money to study this and advise the candidates.  Maybe some folks feel the more negative someone is about the incumbent or the other party's candidate the more they will do something about the things they go on about.  I don't know why but it must resonate with some people. 
Like the man said--- they wouldn't do it if it didn't work. 
I think it turns off the politically attentive folks -- but the average voter must like it or something. 

I will take these one at a time.

According to PEW it does work with some people.  For people like me it is a waste of time.  To me personally it is a waste of time.  I was answering for myself and I should have qualified that.  I just want to hear what candidates plan on doing once elected.  Not interested what they think about someone else.
 
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Posted: #108

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

I feel this, however, is wrong thing to do. 
I very much wish there were 3-4 strong parties. But there simply aren't.  So, I feel whether a person likes it or not, at the end you have to choose the candidate that you feel will do the most good for the country. After all, it is not just about you.  As you just said in a sense you should unite behind the best candidate left. Or, if you prefer, unite against the worst candidate left.  
For sure none of the last ones in the last couple of elections were my preferred choices.  But you should still feel an innate duty to vote for the best left standing. 

I have to admit I was really conflicted about doing this.  As you said in another post you don't think Republicans need to compromise.  I don't think Independents should either and I felt if I voted for one of them I was compromising.  I am not saying everyone should do what I did but it was just my way of opposing what we as a people were given as a choice.
 
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Posted: #109

Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

If I give you the benefit of the doubt here---could you list a couple of exact examples with a few specifics?
I have never like the complaint that Republicans need to compromise. It is always the Republicans that DO compromise. Democrats never do not are asked to. 
So, when you say inclusiveness what would you suggest. And would it be without having to compromise your values and ideas?
For example, would you try to include more women how?  More blacks how?  More Hispanics how?   
Thanks. 

I like what dl has to say about inclusiveness.  We may not agree on everything about how to achieve this but I think he is on the right track.  Take immigration, we need to get this figured out, now. Create a path for a select amount of immigrants each year to gain citizenship and kick the rest out.  Most legal immigrants would be for this since they followed the rules.  Quite honestly not sure what Republicans can do to increase their numbers with blacks.  They don't even like each other as evidenced in Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, LA, New York, St. Louis etc...  It's sad but the Democrats have cornered the market on victimization.  I don't see Republicans overcoming that.

I would love to see a plan that includes regulating financial institutions more.  I have stated many times how much I hate bail outs and Quantitative Easing.  This benefits the wealthy and I am not a fan.  That is why the rich are richer.  Financial institutions are still playing fast and loose.

Let me ask you this.  If I told you you could make $13.39 billion but would have to pay a $550 million fine for fraud would you still do it? Of course you would and that is exactly what happened to Goldman Sachs.  You think that will stop them from taking another chance? Of course not.

I would also like to see a plan to create or get back more higher paying jobs to this country.  Not sure what needs to be done that's why smarter people than me need to figure it out.  Outsourcing may be in vogue but it isn't helping here.

If I need to go on I will.  Let me know..........


 
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Posted: #110

Raiders find the answer that Dr Ben Carson gave today in Harlem in reference to getting the black vote.  He stated some facts that are not PC but he was being very truthful and I would agree that that's about all a Republican candidate could do.
 
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Posted: #111

I think Carson needs to talk about what he is going to do and focus less on trying to summarize his own view on african Americans. He Fails to listen and understand and instead comes across as if he knows poverty better than the people that live it. Maybe it's a doctor know it all personality, maybe it's his insistence on packaging what might good ideas in a gop paradigm wrapper.

What Carson fails to do is cash in on the advantage he has, he is african American. The days of the racist alibi for obama negativity are done, he should use this as an asset to win votes.

He should be saying, I am african American like you and I want to help us. But I want to help us my way, the new gop way that doesn't look to just cut money and programs but makes programs more effective and more efficient so they don't cost as much and for as long because the problem gets solved.

He should be saying, I am African American like you and have faced the same discrimination, racism and hurdles and I acknowledge those things rather then deny them and play the boot straps song and dance.

He should be saying, that even with the difficulty I have been able to succeed in America. So if there is someone that knows a blue print for success for African Americans, it is one of us that has succeeded. Not a white person, because while they might mean well they fail to understand.

Would u take swimming lessons from some one that has floated on the raft all their life? Or would you want someone that knows how to swim and knows how to build his own raft leading the way. With how things have been it is no wonder our people are drowning.

So try it my way. Not the dem way that spends the money and fails to make the change, not the GOP way that plays the bootstraps card on some many levels and fails to make the change.

But this would require Carson to have courage, humble himself, be willing to take a chance and be willing to accept responsibility of his own party as not having a solution or making things worse rather than place it on his community and the dems. And unfortunately Carson is not that guy And that's why he can win votes from a voting base that has been characterized as voting based on race.

I mean shouldn't African Americans be supporting Carson of the theory is true? He must really be failing if African Americans who are characterized as voting only by race won't support him.
 
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Posted: #112

Game
Set
Match

Was coined by 69_Amazin_Mets ...and is now being used by members who attacked him for using it when he was here...very cowardly ..

 
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Posted: #113

Especially when you call GSM prematurely.

Darryl, I never said or implied that you used the war on women or the war on minorities in your solution. I only said that you've talked about each numerous times in the past. I guess you'll have to take back your hypocritical GSM now huh?
 
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Posted: #114

Name calling, denial, psychostalker, lies, this meltdown is so typical. Why is it that you call me darryl when u are unravelling? What does that even mean?

Simply losing it.

Typical bowslit. Lol!

Speaking of psychostalkers.... Sara seems to be babbling nonsense also. At least it's not more sicko porno talk that he was obsessing over earlier

 
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Posted: #115

[Quote: Originally Posted bybettingforfun]
Quote Originally Posted by Raiders22:

If I give you the benefit of the doubt here---could you list a couple of exact examples with a few specifics?I have never like the complaint that Republicans need to compromise. It is always the Republicans that DO compromise. Democrats never do not are asked to. So, when you say inclusiveness what would you suggest. And would it be without having to compromise your values and ideas?For example, would you try to include more women how?  More blacks how?  More Hispanics how?   Thanks. 
I like what dl has to say about inclusiveness.  We may not agree on everything about how to achieve this but I think he is on the right track.  Take immigration, we need to get this figured out, now. Create a path for a select amount of immigrants each year to gain citizenship and kick the rest out.  Most legal immigrants would be for this since they followed the rules.  Quite honestly not sure what Republicans can do to increase their numbers with blacks.  They don't even like each other as evidenced in Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, LA, New York, St. Louis etc...  It's sad but the Democrats have cornered the market on victimization.  I don't see Republicans overcoming that.I would love to see a plan that includes regulating financial institutions more.  I have stated many times how much I hate bail outs and Quantitative Easing.  This benefits the wealthy and I am not a fan.  That is why the rich are richer.  Financial institutions are still playing fast and loose.Let me ask you this.  If I told you you could make $13.39 billion but would have to pay a $550 million fine for fraud would you still do it? Of course you would and that is exactly what happened to Goldman Sachs.  You think that will stop them from taking another chance? Of course not.I would also like to see a plan to create or get back more higher paying jobs to this country.  Not sure what needs to be done that's why smarter people than me need to figure it out.  Outsourcing may be in vogue but it isn't helping here.If I need to go on I will.  Let me know..........


I wanted to comment on your liking what I said. Altho I may not agree with you idea, I agree with the idea of addressing both sides. Including people and deporting people rather than just taking one sided. Usually emotionally charged stances are one sided like the immigrants are bad right winged talking point that trump was able to utilize to gain favor in the polls.

To me the GOP need to let go of such emotionally based stances and take more intelligent and logical approaches like how outlined. And this is not compromise where the GOP insists on pushing their agenda but will compromise by allow the dems to push their agenda. Two wrongs don't make a right. What the GOP has to do is get govt involved in an efficient and effective manner to fix the problem so that govt can back off and become smaller. They preach smaller govt but won't create the plan or solution to have the results that would result in it. And then this plays right into the dems hands.

It's time the GOP stop playing themselves out through this senseless cycle of not taking the bull by the horns


I wanted to comment on your liking what I said. Altho I may not agree with you idea, I agree with the idea of addressing both sides. Including people and deporting people rather than just taking one sided. Usually emotionally charged stances are one sided like the immigrants are bad right winged talking point that trump was able to utilize to gain favor in the polls.

To me the GOP need to let go of such emotionally based stances and take more intelligent and logical approaches like how outlined. And this is not compromise where the GOP insists on pushing their agenda but will compromise by allow the dems to push their agenda. Two wrongs don't make a right. What the GOP has to do is get govt involved in an efficient and effective manner to fix the problem so that govt can back off and become smaller. They preach smaller govt but won't create the plan or solution to have the results that would result in it. And then this plays right into the dems hands.

It's time the GOP stop playing themselves out through this senseless cycle of not taking the bull by the horns
 
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Posted: #116

Quote Originally Posted by dl36:

 

But the point is that it hasn't worked against Obama. All the negativity resulted in matching him into a second term.

I am predicting that it will not work with hillary who is not an incumbent. The problem is that political advisors like Karl rove are not running the show. He conservative media and talking heads who are trying force feed rhetoric and agenda that their consumers eat up. So the politicians than have to cater to the talking points dictated to them.

Also I am not talking politics strategy in a vacuum. I am talking the specific situation that the GOP are in today with their history.
It is not an either/or situation.  Sure it worked against Obama. Just as it worked against Romney and McCain.  Sadly, negative campaigning works. Mainly it works to stir up your base and make sure they vote. Obama's team ran a stealthy antiBush campaign and it worked tremendously. That was more effective to me than the antiRomney and anitMccain ones actually.  You really want to stir up your base and make sure they go vote.  
Then the middle few that you can possibly sway off the fence---you use various other techniques that will stir them up and bring them to your side. 
It will obviously work against Hillary---as it has all along, including against Obama. In other words, if it comes down to Hillary and The Republican.  The republican will do enough negative work to make sure the antiHillary folks go vote.  And vice-versa.  
You have to touch on what works with folks.  If you don't like the republican---you may not like Hillary enough to go vote 'against' her.  And vice-versa. 
Look what Republicans --- even Paul--- are doing against Trump, the front runner. 
It is not a vacuum. Many things work for many different folks.  And as they say they continue the negative campaigning because it works. 
It may not work with you or I. In fact it cause some people to be turned off altogether.  But they simply don't understand this is but one aspect of it.  
You still have to choose whom you feel is the best candidate standing.  Can't just pout about it and not vote at all.  That looks immature at best. 
 
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Posted: #117

Quote Originally Posted by dl36:

 

This is not about compromise. This is about specific policies, plans, initiatives etc. And the role of gop historically has been to oppose them, altho there are instances of compromise but one again not the point.

The point is that the GOP stance has been to bring up the other side and say their are against minorities and than do nothing specifically to help minorities, recognize and deal with inequalities or take specific action to be inclusive through policy and planning.

The stance historically has been to say nothing needs to be done and therefore they will do nothing. And that's why if I ask you to give a list of things that the GOP has done to try to be specifically inclusive it would be difficult especially in comparison to the opposition.

Perhaps it is the basic value system. Perhaps it is the agenda. But either way when you ask how, I would answer at this point simply acknowledging minorities and inequities would be a start. Then listening to what the groups have to say, what hell they need, what simple things can be done to make life better rather than hiding behind the cowardice of saying it's not governments role.

Then based on what they learn they create action steps. Be it policies, agendas, programs, and set empirical goals of progress that they want to see happen to improve quality of life for minorities. Not just throwing money at a problem, but figuring out how to make a real difference.

This will allow them to out do the dems at their own game and probably pull it off cheaper, more efficiently and more effectively.

It's time to stop hiding and dodging and step up and make a difference but do it better
Since you asked I will give it a whirl. 
Republicans have acknowledged minorities.  They have special Republican women, black, Hispanic groups and agendas to get them onboard with the Republicna values, ideologies, and philosophy.  But the compromise thing is so tricky. You can't say you are against, say, welfare programs except for blacks---so they will vote with you.  You can't say you are against illegal immigration except for Hispanics---so they will vote with you.  Etc etc.  Pick any group or issue.  
My contention is the Republicans, by and large (I say this because I can't think off top of my head of an issue where it is not so), are the ones that always end up compromising on issues. 
It is hard to explain to folks that have been generations on hand-outs---obviously not all of them---that hard work and ambition will give you more self-worth and is better for the country as a whole. How do you compromise on this while motivating people to your side?  It is so tricky when one political party continues to promote give, give, give to people.  They will obviously continue to vote for them as opposed to the party that says if you get and education and skill you will do better in the long run.  
For example, it is so hard to dispute the dismal breakup of the black family and the current situation they are in is a direct result of the Democratic policies put in place decades ago. For example, blacks used to marry at a higher % than whites and had a great dynamic family atmosphere. No longer. 
If you are Hispanic and appear to have been received in this country with open arms by Democrats---why vote Republican?  The Democrats have told you for years how the Republicans hate you. 
So, yes, you can acknowledge them. And they are acknowledged.  But it is so hard when you have opposing forces that promote values that are antithetical to yours. 
When you point out under a black president and to start out a very Liberal congress that things have only gotten worse for the groups that they supposedly want to help---you are ignored. 
For example, Carson would be a great example. But no. They turn on him. Just as they do Clarence Thomas and others. 
Sadly, a lot of women voters are the same way. In that they tend to vote more emotionally than men do.  Much, much evidence and studies prove this out.  Women, generally elect the president. 
But there are, as I said, many of these groups that are very Conservative and vote Republican. But to get a majority in any of them is a very tricky situation. Hopefully, it will not take things getting so awful for a group that they would turn away out of sheer desperation. You would like them to actually see the difference between the two parties and choose Republican because of values and ideal etc. 

 
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Posted: #118

Quote Originally Posted by dl36:

Raiders, I appologize, it seems that you were talking to bettingforfun. I am not one to butt in and answer questions for others.

I was be interested to see what you think about my plan for a solution for the GOP in 2016.

Obviously saying the GOP needs to make some fundamental changes is something that some can't handle a convo on and they seem to just meltdown rather than having s dialog.

But I have to be honest about my bias that I am coming a from a place of a non-partisan independent that voted for gw buss twice, obama once and does not want to see hillary as president. So maybe I am biased in that I really want the GOP to win in 2016 (even tho I didn't want them to win in 2008)

Tell me what you think
So, in short, I don't agree Republicans need to make fundamental changes. What to be Democratic Lite?  They have to maintain as best they can.  I contend by and large it is a family and church and community thing.  We have gotten away from all of that and now see the Government as our daddy, preacher, neighbors, etc. 
Perhaps the answer is to let the situation run its course and enough folks will come back to the party to turn the country around somewhat before it is too late. From time to time it has been a pendulum situation like this. 
Time will tell. Generations change from previous ones.  So who knows. 
 
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Posted: #119

Quote Originally Posted by bettingforfun:


I like what dl has to say about inclusiveness.  We may not agree on everything about how to achieve this but I think he is on the right track.  Take immigration, we need to get this figured out, now. Create a path for a select amount of immigrants each year to gain citizenship and kick the rest out.  Most legal immigrants would be for this since they followed the rules.  Quite honestly not sure what Republicans can do to increase their numbers with blacks.  They don't even like each other as evidenced in Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, LA, New York, St. Louis etc...  It's sad but the Democrats have cornered the market on victimization.  I don't see Republicans overcoming that.

I would love to see a plan that includes regulating financial institutions more.  I have stated many times how much I hate bail outs and Quantitative Easing.  This benefits the wealthy and I am not a fan.  That is why the rich are richer.  Financial institutions are still playing fast and loose.

Let me ask you this.  If I told you you could make $13.39 billion but would have to pay a $550 million fine for fraud would you still do it? Of course you would and that is exactly what happened to Goldman Sachs.  You think that will stop them from taking another chance? Of course not.

I would also like to see a plan to create or get back more higher paying jobs to this country.  Not sure what needs to be done that's why smarter people than me need to figure it out.  Outsourcing may be in vogue but it isn't helping here.

If I need to go on I will.  Let me know..........


We already have a path for a certain amount of immigrants to become citizens. Sure most legal would be. But a surprising amount are for illegals coming over, no problem. Remember they are from there and have family and friends and no firsthand what a dumpster fire it is. So they feel sorry for them. 
So what you mean is not they we need to address immigration. You mean we need to address ILLEGAL immigration.  Huge, huge difference. The parties are too split on this. This is an either/or situation.  You absolutely cannot compromise on allowing this.  Now you can do something with the ones currently here.  Sure. That is a possibility. 
I agree about the blacks and the victimization thing.  But it is not just blacks.  Democrats do a great job of playing on a group's sympathy. Illegals, poor, social security, college debt, just anything to get them to know they stand with their cause!  They want them to know the govt will help them and look after them. Everybody likes sympathy and help and of course free stuff!
I think you are half-right about the QE and rich.  It is a simple fact in life EVERYTHING helps the rich. Or the ones that are ambitious and strive to do well. Because by nature they take advantage of everything possible to succeed in life. Financials may be playing fast and loose according to you.  But everyday if they do illegal stuff they are fined, shut down, go to prison, etc. But if things are not helping and are hurting the economy---change them.  Look at who was in charge of congress and look at who has been president last while. Then look at the advisers from Fed on down. It is perceived these are all put in place by Republicans because it mostly benefits them (because we all know only Republicans are rich) --- but this simply isn't the case. 
I would ask that you study the Sachs thing a little more indepth. Do you think they are still doing this?  Do you think they are stupid enough to allow it again.  For sure it wouldn't be so light next time.  Democrats had a large part to play in setting this up.  As they did with the housing market and other things.  Then they do all they can to serve the blame and point solely to Republicans. 
Outsourcing is not in vogue now.  As j have pointed out many times. That is another Left myth. The tide has turned on that a couple of years ago now. 
Yes higher paying jobs would be nice.  But also people learning to LIVE WITHIN their means would be a good start. It is a very very relative thing.  As I have pointed out many times disposable income is not nearly as bad as people think when it comes to necessities.  But look at the DEBT of not just the country---but individuals.  We have a culture that wants things right now.  And we want the best and too much of it. Look back at how small the houses were when you think the higher paying jobs were at a peak in U.S.   Houses are way bigger now.  That is just one example. 
But you can rest assured the Right has proposed plans to get companies to created and keep jobs here.  But the Left will have none of it. Also look back to how some of the outsourcing started.  The Right simply cannot be blamed for all of this mess.  Congress has been led by the Left during a lot of this time. 
 
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Posted: #120

Raiders.....Raiders......You're hitting on all cylinders this morning..and sooooo early..

.......
 
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Posted: #121

No Slim. So late.  Haha!
 
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Posted: #122

Outsourcing is not in vogue now.  As j have pointed out many times. That is another Left myth. The tide has turned on that a couple of years ago now. 

700 US companies now located in Ireland as direct investment soars ...

www.theguardian.com › World › Ireland
Mar 5, 2015 - The figures from the American Chamber of Commerce in Ireland go back to 1990 and show corporations continued to cross the Atlantic even during the dark years of the recent recession. The ACCI's latest report into foreign direct investment shows that 700US companies based in Ireland now employ 130,000 people.

I will get you more numbers on other countries if you like.  My wife is applying for work in Ireland as we speak.

Right one it's time to go golfing so I will respond to the rest later.
 
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Posted: #123

This is a perfect example of how the current system is broke.   I think of all of us agree that the current tax process needs to be fixed and there is basic consensus on some of the solutions.  Yet nothing gets done because special interests on both sides torpedo any attempts.  Same w immigration.   Again you can rationalize all you want about illegal or legal immigration but the bottom line is the current system is broke.   You could probably get rational adults on both sides to come to some solution that can be supported by both sides but again that will not happen because the special interests on both sides will have none of it.    It's going to take a special kind of leader to overcome these obstacles.
 
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Posted: #124

'It's going to take a special kind of leader to overcome these obstacles."

Agree .....these obstacles can be overcome ..after Trump builds the wall....
 
 
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Posted: #125

Boy, I should know better than to play golf on Fridays.  Waaaaay to slow.  Anyways I am back.  Here we go.

I would ask that you study the Sachs thing a little more in depth. Do you think they are still doing this?  Do you think they are stupid enough to allow it again.  For sure it wouldn't be so light next time.  Democrats had a large part to play in setting this up.  As they did with the housing market and other things.  Then they do all they can to serve the blame and point solely to Republicans. 

Yes I do think they are that stupid and they continue to pay fines over their sleazy dealings.  Means absolutely nothing to them when you are making BILLIONS.  Tell me how many of the Goldman criminals have ended up in prison?  How many from any of the big financial institutions have ended up in jail?
You are correct if your answer was zero.


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