You fools post one incident where an intruder was killed by a home owner. I can post 100 accidents a day from across the country where as..
1. Women kills son, thinking he was a intruder
2. Child blow his head off with fathers gun
3 Gun goes off while man is cleaning his gun
4 Drunk man commits suicide with own gun.
5 Girl killed in crossfire while just walking home.
6 Father shoots wife and 4 children after losing his job.
7 Man shoots driver in road rage.
I could go on and on and on. So don't hand me this crap that one man shoots intruder to justify owning guns. Yes, you have the right to own a hand gun, but don't try to tell me that it saves more lives, THAT IS FREAKING CRAP !
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
You fools post one incident where an intruder was killed by a home owner. I can post 100 accidents a day from across the country where as..
1. Women kills son, thinking he was a intruder
2. Child blow his head off with fathers gun
3 Gun goes off while man is cleaning his gun
4 Drunk man commits suicide with own gun.
5 Girl killed in crossfire while just walking home.
6 Father shoots wife and 4 children after losing his job.
7 Man shoots driver in road rage.
I could go on and on and on. So don't hand me this crap that one man shoots intruder to justify owning guns. Yes, you have the right to own a hand gun, but don't try to tell me that it saves more lives, THAT IS FREAKING CRAP !
For every example of man's stupidity or neglect you cannot deprive another man the opportunity the chance to have their life saved or influenced their pursuit of happiness.
Cars accidentally kill and injure way more people and you'd never consider banning cars or trucks for their safety record.
Far more guns are not involved in negligence and evil then the tiny amount that are involved in negative cases.
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Don,
For every example of man's stupidity or neglect you cannot deprive another man the opportunity the chance to have their life saved or influenced their pursuit of happiness.
Cars accidentally kill and injure way more people and you'd never consider banning cars or trucks for their safety record.
Far more guns are not involved in negligence and evil then the tiny amount that are involved in negative cases.
No, I am not against a U.S. citizen owning a hand gun, if they have a permit. Just like a license is required if one wishes to drive a motorized vehicle that could kill a person.
And just as you are responsible if you allow that vehicle to be driven by someone else if they kill someone, you should be responsible if a child hurts itself or someone else with your gun. Example...If you want to own a pit bull, go ahead, but you will lose your home and all your possessions if that dog kills someone off your property.
This is one of the costs of freedom. Civilized Regulation !
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No, I am not against a U.S. citizen owning a hand gun, if they have a permit. Just like a license is required if one wishes to drive a motorized vehicle that could kill a person.
And just as you are responsible if you allow that vehicle to be driven by someone else if they kill someone, you should be responsible if a child hurts itself or someone else with your gun. Example...If you want to own a pit bull, go ahead, but you will lose your home and all your possessions if that dog kills someone off your property.
This is one of the costs of freedom. Civilized Regulation !
No, I am not against a U.S. citizen owning a hand gun, if they have a permit. Just like a license is required if one wishes to drive a motorized vehicle that could kill a person.
And just as you are responsible if you allow that vehicle to be driven by someone else if they kill someone, you should be responsible if a child hurts itself or someone else with your gun. Example...If you want to own a pit bull, go ahead, but you will lose your home and all your possessions if that dog kills someone off your property.
This is one of the costs of freedom. Civilized Regulation !
I could go along with that.
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Quote Originally Posted by don juan:
No, I am not against a U.S. citizen owning a hand gun, if they have a permit. Just like a license is required if one wishes to drive a motorized vehicle that could kill a person.
And just as you are responsible if you allow that vehicle to be driven by someone else if they kill someone, you should be responsible if a child hurts itself or someone else with your gun. Example...If you want to own a pit bull, go ahead, but you will lose your home and all your possessions if that dog kills someone off your property.
This is one of the costs of freedom. Civilized Regulation !
Personally, I will not have a gun in my home, read too many horror stories. Yes, you have that right in yours, but along with that comes much responsibility. Don't take any drugs or alcohol, because it alters your mind. Don't let children near it. Don't let family or friends know where you keep it. Good luck with that !
If an intruder breaks into my home, oh well, I will find something to defend myself.
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Personally, I will not have a gun in my home, read too many horror stories. Yes, you have that right in yours, but along with that comes much responsibility. Don't take any drugs or alcohol, because it alters your mind. Don't let children near it. Don't let family or friends know where you keep it. Good luck with that !
If an intruder breaks into my home, oh well, I will find something to defend myself.
No, I am not against a U.S. citizen owning a hand gun, if they have a permit. Just like a license is required if one wishes to drive a motorized vehicle that could kill a person.
You don't have a constitutionally enumerated right to drive a car.
So that isn't really a good argument.
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Quote Originally Posted by don juan:
No, I am not against a U.S. citizen owning a hand gun, if they have a permit. Just like a license is required if one wishes to drive a motorized vehicle that could kill a person.
You don't have a constitutionally enumerated right to drive a car.
You fools post one incident where an intruder was killed by a home owner.
Actually, there are multiple stories like this every day.
Some of the things you're talking about as examples involve the illegal possession of a firearm. Not to mention the comission of a crime.
So again, you really don't have a good argument.
I thought Don's point was that for every good story about guns there are also terrible stories about guns. I did not interpret his comment to argue against gun ownership or constitutional rights etc. Just that any discussion about the good should also include bad.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
You fools post one incident where an intruder was killed by a home owner.
Actually, there are multiple stories like this every day.
Some of the things you're talking about as examples involve the illegal possession of a firearm. Not to mention the comission of a crime.
So again, you really don't have a good argument.
I thought Don's point was that for every good story about guns there are also terrible stories about guns. I did not interpret his comment to argue against gun ownership or constitutional rights etc. Just that any discussion about the good should also include bad.
It will not stop it I completely agree. But IMO it is hard to believe that it will not, at a minimum, make it more difficult (even if it is just slightly) for someone to pull this sort of thing off.Believe it or not I am not anti-gun. However, I am also not against having tough regulations in place for owning a gun.
It is well documented that I have democratic views. But this "broad discussion" has many different angles. The point of this thread IMO is that we should not beat our chests about the pros of guns when in stories like this and ignore the other stories that are horrible.
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Quote Originally Posted by rick3117:
Sure, to a point.
But this guy thinks a registration will stop it.
It is ridiculous.
It will not stop it I completely agree. But IMO it is hard to believe that it will not, at a minimum, make it more difficult (even if it is just slightly) for someone to pull this sort of thing off.Believe it or not I am not anti-gun. However, I am also not against having tough regulations in place for owning a gun.
It is well documented that I have democratic views. But this "broad discussion" has many different angles. The point of this thread IMO is that we should not beat our chests about the pros of guns when in stories like this and ignore the other stories that are horrible.
There is no evidence, fact, or data, that would suggest gun registration would deter crime even a fraction of a percentage point.
I do not have the facts or percentages, nor do I believe that accurate ones even exist. But just from a "what is common stance standpoint" how would requiring a registration not reduce the incidence? One thing for sure is that it will definitely not increase the incidence.
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Quote Originally Posted by 14daroad:
Where do you come up with this stuff?
There is no evidence, fact, or data, that would suggest gun registration would deter crime even a fraction of a percentage point.
I do not have the facts or percentages, nor do I believe that accurate ones even exist. But just from a "what is common stance standpoint" how would requiring a registration not reduce the incidence? One thing for sure is that it will definitely not increase the incidence.
I do not have the facts or percentages, nor do I believe that accurate ones even exist. But just from a "what is common stance standpoint" how would requiring a registration not reduce the incidence? One thing for sure is that it will definitely not increase the incidence.
Because "common sense" doesn't mean what you think it means.
"Common sense" would suggest that banning guns would reduce violent crime. Yet that never seems to happen.
Making people register a gun has absolutely nothing to do with crime.
Nothing at all.
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Quote Originally Posted by mattbrot:
I do not have the facts or percentages, nor do I believe that accurate ones even exist. But just from a "what is common stance standpoint" how would requiring a registration not reduce the incidence? One thing for sure is that it will definitely not increase the incidence.
Because "common sense" doesn't mean what you think it means.
"Common sense" would suggest that banning guns would reduce violent crime. Yet that never seems to happen.
Making people register a gun has absolutely nothing to do with crime.
Except that it does happen. Are we talking about violent crime or death related to violent crime? If it is death than there is plenty of evidence to support the claim about countries with very strict gun laws. This has been debated here and elsewhere numerous times so please do not ask me to reproduce the same arguments. And I disagree that the act of registering a gun would not reduce it somewhat. Would it now potentially deter someone if they knew their gun was registered? Of course it would. Maybe only a small percentage but... Anyway it definitely would not do the opposite so what is the harm?
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Except that it does happen. Are we talking about violent crime or death related to violent crime? If it is death than there is plenty of evidence to support the claim about countries with very strict gun laws. This has been debated here and elsewhere numerous times so please do not ask me to reproduce the same arguments. And I disagree that the act of registering a gun would not reduce it somewhat. Would it now potentially deter someone if they knew their gun was registered? Of course it would. Maybe only a small percentage but... Anyway it definitely would not do the opposite so what is the harm?
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