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Am I the only one here who thinks this is wrong?

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Posted: #1

UPS fined $40 million for shipping drugs for illicit online pharmacies

https://www.examiner.com/article/ups-fined-40-million-for-shipping-drugs-for-illicit-online-pharmacies


I don't like the idea that a shipping company will now be compelled to know exactly what is being shipped by their customers. Unless the packages were shipped with unmistakable wording I don't think its a good Idea nor do I believe the shipping company should be liable for the contents of the shipments.

If the DEA wants to have a drug dog on the conveyor belt leading to the delivery vans I don't have a problem with that. Now, UPS will have to hire their own drug dogs for that purpose.

If I give UPS a package to ship they should ask me if it could be harmful to any person delivering it and that's it.

I've never ordered anything from an illicit online pharmacy so I don't know how the packages are labeled.

Another question is who is supplying the illicit drugs to the online pharmacies? Is it the big pharma themselves or is it simply organized crime?

 
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Posted: #2
Fed Ex has decided to fight the fines in court and I applaud that decision.
 
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Posted: #3
Very likely the US postal service is guilty as well.
 
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Posted: #4
i don't get at all from this that any delivery company has to know exactly what is in their packages.

the DOJ warned UPS multiple times over many years about certain illegal pharmacies and told UPS to stop shipping their illegal products.  UPS ignored the multiple warnings because they were making a killing shopping what they were told were shipments from illegal pharmacies. 

ups took the gamble and lost.  i'm sure they come out ahead financially though. 

so because UPS played this game and lost (although not really), i have no sympathy for them.  my guess is UPS knew that they are above the law and would only have to pay part of their profits back for what is basically drug trafficking.

what should bother you, however, is that if the average fool is caught with a few pills without a prescription, he likely goes to jail, in some cases, for a long time.  however, a big corporation that ships millions of illegal pills and makes a fortune doing it just has to pay a percentage of that fortune to the government and everyone is satisfied.

such is the plutocracy we live in. 


 
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Posted: #5
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:

i don't get at all from this that any delivery company has to know exactly what is in their packages.

the DOJ warned UPS multiple times over many years about certain illegal pharmacies and told UPS to stop shipping their illegal products.  UPS ignored the multiple warnings because they were making a killing shopping what they were told were shipments from illegal pharmacies. 

ups took the gamble and lost.  i'm sure they come out ahead financially though. 

so because UPS played this game and lost (although not really), i have no sympathy for them.  my guess is UPS knew that they are above the law and would only have to pay part of their profits back for what is basically drug trafficking.

what should bother you, however, is that if the average fool is caught with a few pills without a prescription, he likely goes to jail, in some cases, for a long time.  however, a big corporation that ships millions of illegal pills and makes a fortune doing it just has to pay a percentage of that fortune to the government and everyone is satisfied.

such is the plutocracy we live in. 




I know for some manufacturing places that ship in bulk that UPS will park a semi trailer or something like that to load up.

What if some of those pharmacies sent a few boxes at a time to be shipped? Would you hold UPS responsible still?

How is UPS supposed to know if they are shipping illegal pharmaceuticals?

Its very likely that the postal service shipped illegal stuff too. Will they get fined?
 
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Posted: #6

There is probably more to the story. According to N3, "About 10 years ago, UPS decided to accept business online pharmacies, despite the fact that federal officials considered some of them to be problematic....."

Now, I am not sure to what extent the Feds had told UPS before 2007 since the inquiry began in that year but is it possible UPS just decided to turn a blind eye?

Obviously, we can't expect companies to do the detective work

 
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Posted: #7
Hmmm, seems like the feds would have to label the illegal pharmacy an enemy of the state or whatever and make it illegal to do ANY business with them.

We all know that's illegal (sort of) so who knows. With all the millions of boxes shipped how does any shipper know what's in packages? They would need a black list of companies that they refuse to do biz with.
If what club says is true it sounds like they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar?
 
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Posted: #8
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:



I know for some manufacturing places that ship in bulk that UPS will park a semi trailer or something like that to load up.

What if some of those pharmacies sent a few boxes at a time to be shipped? Would you hold UPS responsible still?

How is UPS supposed to know if they are shipping illegal pharmaceuticals?

Its very likely that the postal service shipped illegal stuff too. Will they get fined?


it's in my post.  i've followed this story for a little while.  apparently the authorities told UPS many times that certain pharmacies were shipping illegal pills without a prescription and told UPS to stop shipping their drugs.  UPS didn't stop.  the government told them again an  again.  UPS didn't stop.  UPS got fined. 

if UPS was joe smith, UPS would be facing a million years in prison but UPS is UPS so they pay a very small fine and everyone is happy.

if the postal service did the same thing and knew or should have know, they'd be equally responsible.  of course the postal service is the government so it doesn't make much sense to fine them and it's probably easier to get them to stop since the DOJ and the postal service have the same boss at some level. 
 
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Posted: #9
If you were operating one of these illegal pharmacies wouldn't you just adapt your tactics to make sure you don't raise any of UPS's red flags...if they had any?

IE:

False label the boxes.

Ship a few boxes at a time using multiple beards.

etc.
 
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Posted: #10
I'm thinking there had to be some massive cooperation from the big pharmacy companies themselves. It's not like these drugs they were shipping aren't strictly controlled.
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

If you were operating one of these illegal pharmacies wouldn't you just adapt your tactics to make sure you don't raise any of UPS's red flags...if they had any?

IE:

False label the boxes.

Ship a few boxes at a time using multiple beards.

etc.


i don't think that was the issue.  it sounds like the DOJ determined that certain pharmacies were operating illegally and told UPS not to ship anything from them.  UPS decided to ignore those warnings. 

but ups is fine.  i saw one article that said they made $5000/day shipping this stuff.  the illegal pharmacy market is huge.  they paid a small fine.  pcoekt change.  they made much, much more.  ups is happy, the government gets their take so they are happy, the illegal pharmacies got to ship a lot of pills so they are happy and i'm sure a lot of drug users on the back end got arrested and had to go to jail so the government is even happier.  everyone wins.  except the people who don't have insurance and need to order their pills another way and the rest of us who have to pay the taxes to house and feed them in jail.
 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



it's in my post.  i've followed this story for a little while.  apparently the authorities told UPS many times that certain pharmacies were shipping illegal pills without a prescription and told UPS to stop shipping their drugs.  UPS didn't stop.  the government told them again an  again.  UPS didn't stop.  UPS got fined. 

if UPS was joe smith, UPS would be facing a million years in prison but UPS is UPS so they pay a very small fine and everyone is happy.

if the postal service did the same thing and knew or should have know, they'd be equally responsible.  of course the postal service is the government so it doesn't make much sense to fine them and it's probably easier to get them to stop since the DOJ and the postal service have the same boss at some level. 


Ok...I get that but how does UPS know what is a legit company or not?

I'm pretty sure the O pharmacies were smart enough not to ship from Illegalonlinepharma.com?
 
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Posted: #13
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:

I'm thinking there had to be some massive cooperation from the big pharmacy companies themselves. It's not like these drugs they were shipping aren't strictly controlled.


wouldn't surprise me if pharmaceutical companies put pressure on the DOJ to go after these illegal pharmacies that are cutting into their profits.
 
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Posted: #14
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:



Ok...I get that but how does UPS know what is a legit company or not?

I'm pretty sure the O pharmacies were smart enough not to ship from Illegalonlinepharma.com?


probably not too hard.  find one on the internet, pose as a drug buyer see if they follow the rules about prescriptions and doctor exams, etc.  also they bust people with pills, people talk about wherre they got their pills and how and then the DOj goes up the ladder.  that's how almost all federal drug cases are made.
 
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Posted: #15
Remember back when satallite stealing electronics were being shipped from Canada to help you get free DirecTV?

That was illegal too and did DOJ try to fine shipping companies for that?
 
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Posted: #16
the electronics industry lobby can't darn with the billion dollar pharmaceutical lobby
 
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Posted: #17
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



probably not too hard.  find one on the internet, pose as a drug buyer see if they follow the rules about prescriptions and doctor exams, etc.  also they bust people with pills, people talk about wherre they got their pills and how and then the DOj goes up the ladder.  that's how almost all federal drug cases are made.


Where do you think these online pharm's were getting those drugs from for wholesale prices? Some of that garbage is heavily controlled.
 
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Posted: #18
Quote Originally Posted by bowlslit:



Where do you think these online pharm's were getting those drugs from for wholesale prices? Some of that garbage is heavily controlled.



i don't know much about that but it seems like we pay more for these drugs here through regular pharmacies than most people pay anywhere else. 
 
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Posted: #19
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



it's in my post.  i've followed this story for a little while.  apparently the authorities told UPS many times that certain pharmacies were shipping illegal pills without a prescription and told UPS to stop shipping their drugs.  UPS didn't stop.  the government told them again an  again.  UPS didn't stop.  UPS got fined. 

if UPS was joe smith, UPS would be facing a million years in prison but UPS is UPS so they pay a very small fine and everyone is happy.

if the postal service did the same thing and knew or should have know, they'd be equally responsible.  of course the postal service is the government so it doesn't make much sense to fine them and it's probably easier to get them to stop since the DOJ and the postal service have the same boss at some level. 

I know nothing about this story but if this is true than there is obviously much more to this story than we know. And if they were warned than yes -- they continued to fuc.k with the bull and eventually got burned. Kind of like the New Orleans Saints. Many people complained that their punishment was too harsh. But by all accounts they were warned numerous times and basically held their middle finger up and continued to do what they do. The pushed their luck and eventually got burned.  
 
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Posted: #20
corporations involved in major criminal activity, getting busted and then getting a slap on the wrist (i.e. a fine) is not uncommon.  here's another story.  these fines of tens of millions of dollars or a couple hundred million are really  slap on the wrist.  these corporations make a ridiculous amount of money.  the fines are pocket change and just the cost of doing business, although a minor cost.

 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/wachovia-to-settle-money-_n_502959.html
 
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Posted: #21
Quote Originally Posted by ClubDirt:



it's in my post.  i've followed this story for a little while.  apparently the authorities told UPS many times that certain pharmacies were shipping illegal pills without a prescription and told UPS to stop shipping their drugs.  UPS didn't stop.  the government told them again an  again.  UPS didn't stop.  UPS got fined. 

if UPS was joe smith, UPS would be facing a million years in prison but UPS is UPS so they pay a very small fine and everyone is happy.

if the postal service did the same thing and knew or should have know, they'd be equally responsible.  of course the postal service is the government so it doesn't make much sense to fine them and it's probably easier to get them to stop since the DOJ and the postal service have the same boss at some level. 


In whose world is $40 M a "very small fine" especially when you claim (w/o support) in a later post that they are making $5000 per day profit. So 8000 days of profit or 20 + years is a small fine.

Credibility lost.
 
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Posted: #22
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:



In whose world is $40 M a "very small fine" especially when you claim (w/o support) in a later post that they are making $5000 per day profit. So 8000 days of profit or 20 + years is a small fine.

Credibility lost.

oh, oh, the Irony
 
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Posted: #23
40 million dollars  they probably had a good reason.
 
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Posted: #24
Quote Originally Posted by esplanade:



In whose world is $40 M a "very small fine" especially when you claim (w/o support) in a later post that they are making $5000 per day profit. So 8000 days of profit or 20 + years is a small fine.

Credibility lost.


that's in ups's world.  they made $14.5 billion with a b in revenue last quarter. 

and i never claimed they made $5,000/day by shipping illegal drugs.  i said one of the articles said that's what they made.  i think it was an estimate from the DOJ, but not a claim from me.

 
 
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Posted: #25
do you know another way you can tell $40 million doesn't mean garbage to ups.  the stock price is pretty much at an all time high. 
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