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Author: [Politics] Topic: family of trayvon martin to hold one year rememberance in NYC tonight
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#101
Posted: 2/28/2013 7:46:20 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



Hindsight it 20/20.

How was Zimmerman supposed to know that following would put him in a life or death situation.

Where is the criminal activity that you can legally charge him?

He might have taken a clue from the fact that he intentionally followed a "suspicious person" whom police dispatch told him not to follow, while he was aware that police were on their way. A "suspicious person that had not committed a crime (yet). 

That might have been a clue. Ever follow a suspicious looking person? Especially after police dispatch told you not to and that police were on their way? Me neither. 

I'm sure Jerry Sandusky thinks molesting those kids was a bad idea not that he is behind bars. Doesn't change the fact that those kids lives are forever changed. 

If it could be proven that Zim touched Martin first then prosecutors could take a run at involuntary manslaughter. 

I doubt they would be able to prove that though since the other party isn't able to give his side of the story. 

You can say that all Zim did was question Martin about what he was up to. However, we have no idea what was said or what led to Martin being on top of Zim. At least you haven't linked me to anything that proves that Zim's statement is 100% accurate. 


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#102
Posted: 2/28/2013 7:49:17 PM
Let me add too that I have personally had a gun pointed at me in a armed robbery. I didn't fight back and I'm still alive. I got pistol whipped and that was it.

Even if Zimmerman had the gun out and pointed it at Trayvon, (which I highly doubt) that doesn't mean the person intends to kill or shoot you.

But it would give Trayvon justification to SYG.
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#103
Posted: 2/28/2013 7:54:43 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

The dispatcher has every right and interest in asking Zimmerman to keep his distance.

Zimmerman has no legal reason or obligation to obey the dispatcher.

This makes the most sense for my theory and Zimmermans account that Trayvon doubled back to confront him. Which I don't blame Trayvon for one bit. I blame Trayvon for escalating the verbal confrontation to a situation that made Zimmerman believe he was in fear for his life or serious bodily injury.

If Trayvon would have never thrown a sucker punch then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Without any shred of evidence that Zimmerman so much as flicked Trayvon with his finger you are out of line for assuming such a thing happened.

Explain to me how Zim was sucker punched. Was he squared to Martin? Did he turn his back on a "suspicious person" that he chased down? 

You really think that by chasing Martin down to confront him, after being told not to, that Zim has absolutely no role in this escalating to a physical confrontation. 

I don't think it's out of line at all to think that Zim could have possibly initiated the physical confrontation by grabbing or attempting to grab or even attempting to detain Martin. I think it is well within the realm of possibilities given the fact that Zim chased after him. 

Like I said, Zim won't be convicted of anything for lack of evidence(or at least shouldn't be) but he isn't completely innocent in this matter. 

I agree that Zim has no legal obligation to obey the dispatcher, however he should be held accountable (or at least partially accountable) for any negative actions and consequences that may happen after that. 
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#104
Posted: 2/28/2013 7:57:14 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:


He might have taken a clue from the fact that he intentionally followed a "suspicious person" whom police dispatch told him not to follow, while he was aware that police were on their way. A "suspicious person that had not committed a crime (yet). 

That might have been a clue. Ever follow a suspicious looking person? Especially after police dispatch told you not to and that police were on their way? Me neither. 

I'm sure Jerry Sandusky thinks molesting those kids was a bad idea not that he is behind bars. Doesn't change the fact that those kids lives are forever changed. 

If it could be proven that Zim touched Martin first then prosecutors could take a run at involuntary manslaughter. 

I doubt they would be able to prove that though since the other party isn't able to give his side of the story. 

You can say that all Zim did was question Martin about what he was up to. However, we have no idea what was said or what led to Martin being on top of Zim. At least you haven't linked me to anything that proves that Zim's statement is 100% accurate. 


I have evidence in the form of NO injuries or lacerations to the body of Trayvon.

I have evidence that the shot that killed Trayvon was likely less than 18 inches away.

Who cares what was said? Zimmerman could have said he wanted to kick Trayvons butt and that wouldn't change things legally.

I think it's your duty to find proof that proves my theory to be wrong. I have video that shows that Zimmerman was on the ground being pummeled. I have video where a witness states that the one wearing red jacket was screaming for help.

You haven't convinced me that anything Zimmerman might have said to Trayvon was relevant. 
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#105
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:01:20 PM

I agree that Zim has no legal obligation to obey the dispatcher, however he should be held accountable (or at least partially accountable) for any negative actions and consequences that may happen after that.

So you think that Zimmerman should be punished for actions that Trayvon took that escalated the confrontation?


Just so you know, even if Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon by the arm sleeves that is not grounds to slam his head repeatedly into the cement.


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#106
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:08:26 PM
You really think that by chasing Martin down to confront him, after being told not to, that Zim has absolutely no role in this escalating to a physical confrontation.

You chose the term chasing down, I think he just followed him keeping his distance. I think that Trayvon turned back and confronted Zimmerman. Just by the words and terms you choose I doubt you see this 100% unbiased.

For the first 3 weeks I heard about this case I was against Zimmerman like you and most others.
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#107
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:53:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

You really think that by chasing Martin down to confront him, after being told not to, that Zim has absolutely no role in this escalating to a physical confrontation.

You chose the term chasing down, I think he just followed him keeping his distance. I think that Trayvon turned back and confronted Zimmerman. Just by the words and terms you choose I doubt you see this 100% unbiased.

For the first 3 weeks I heard about this case I was against Zimmerman like you and most others.

You think or you know? 
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#108
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:54:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:


I agree that Zim has no legal obligation to obey the dispatcher, however he should be held accountable (or at least partially accountable) for any negative actions and consequences that may happen after that.

So you think that Zimmerman should be punished for actions that Trayvon took that escalated the confrontation?


Just so you know, even if Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon by the arm sleeves that is not grounds to slam his head repeatedly into the cement.



Zimmerman is just as responsible, if not more, than Martin is. Only thing is we get to hear Zim's version of the account and how it started. How convenient. 
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#109
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:56:34 PM
I actually do care what Zim said to Martin, the manner in which he said, and whether or not he made initial contact with Martin or attempted to detain him. I think that is all relevant information and could possibly constitute assault, in which case Zim could be seen as the initial aggressor. 

But we only get to hear one side of the story of how this got started. How convenient. 
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#110
Posted: 2/28/2013 8:58:04 PM
Martin had more right to the SYG statute than Z as he committed no crime and was being followed by a suspicious person.
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#111
Posted: 2/28/2013 9:13:55 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:

I actually do care what Zim said to Martin, the manner in which he said, and whether or not he made initial contact with Martin or attempted to detain him. I think that is all relevant information and could possibly constitute assault, in which case Zim could be seen as the initial aggressor. 

But we only get to hear one side of the story of how this got started. How convenient. 

So somehow in your twisted mind if someone shows intent to detain you that gives you the right to punch them in the face and then slam their head repeatedly into the cement?

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#112
Posted: 2/28/2013 9:15:01 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by darkhorse12:

Martin had more right to the SYG statute than Z as he committed no crime and was being followed by a suspicious person.

Following is not a crime and assaulting someone is.

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#113
Posted: 2/28/2013 9:45:42 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:





And murdering someone is not??

Perhaps you were an eye witness to the actions that took place a year ago...




And I'm shocked to know that you know not the difference between murder and justifiable homicide.

Actually, I'm not shocked.

This is an adult conversation so what makes you think you can participate?
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#114
Posted: 2/28/2013 9:46:03 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:





And murdering someone is not??

Perhaps you were an eye witness to the actions that took place a year ago...




And I'm shocked to know that you know not the difference between murder and justifiable homicide.

Actually, I'm not shocked.

This is an adult conversation so what makes you think you can participate?
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#115
Posted: 2/28/2013 9:58:26 PM
My does my mind have to be twisted to think that if a complete stranger, that is not police and doesn't identify themselves, tries to detain or confront I don't have a right to fight back? Especially if they may hands on me (Not necessarily saying Z did)?

That's why I would want to know more details or see more evidence. Which is why I'm asking you to provide me some sources I can read to support your theory.
Posted using a mobile device.
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#116
Posted: 2/28/2013 10:12:21 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:

My does my mind have to be twisted to think that if a complete stranger, that is not police and doesn't identify themselves, tries to detain or confront I don't have a right to fight back? Especially if they may hands on me (Not necessarily saying Z did)?

That's why I would want to know more details or see more evidence. Which is why I'm asking you to provide me some sources I can read to support your theory.


Because fighting back and trying to slam someones head into the cement are two different things. I figured you for someone that understood that.
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#117
Posted: 2/28/2013 10:23:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF83Dv6H0cA
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#118
Posted: 3/1/2013 12:11:04 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF83Dv6H0cA

Do you think "John" followed the police dispatchers directions/suggestions/orders(whatever you want to call it)? 


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#119
Posted: 3/1/2013 1:25:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:


Do you think "John" followed the police dispatchers directions/suggestions/orders(whatever you want to call it)? 




Ktrain,

Every monday morning qb including myself wishes Zimmerman would have stayed in his truck.

You may as well focus your energy in another direction because it doesn't matter that Zimmerman followed Trayvon even though not following him would likely have avoided this whole entire mess.

Hind sight is 20/20 and Zimmerman had no way of knowing that Trayvon was going to double back and confront him and sucker punch him and slam his head into the cement repeatedly.

Do you expect him to have a crystal ball?

If you think the following part is relevant to his conviction then you are an idiot and don't understand how the system works.
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#120
Posted: 3/1/2013 1:38:01 AM
I guess I'm an idiot then.



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#121
Posted: 3/1/2013 3:13:34 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:

Wonder if bowlshit and the rest of the folks that already have their minds made up about something they know so little about would be thinking the same thing if

a) Zimmerman was a negro on welfare..

b) trayvon was a Caucasian born again christian..

with the same alleged story about bashing his head on the ground, the alleged justifiable homicide etc.. etc...

just changed the race up a bit......
You think racial issues are not prevalent in this country. HAA

Check out the divide in the party in the electorate.... It's obvious.....


You don't read too good do you?

I was on the other side for the first 3 weeks after the shooting occurred. I believed all the bs propaganda from the media and the bias towards the poor little teenager.

I have explained in great f uc ing detail why I think Zimmerman did nothing wrong you butt munch. It has zero to do with race you idiot.

You're dumber than I have ever imagined you ignorant imbisil.
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#122
Posted: 3/1/2013 3:17:10 AM
interesting how the personal attacks and insults start up when the arguments start to fall
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#123
Posted: 3/1/2013 3:30:57 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by dl36:

interesting how the personal attacks and insults start up when the arguments start to fall


It sure is funny that you refuse to weigh in on the subject.

Where does cover's most boring member stand on this case?

I bet you don't dare to let us know.


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#124
Posted: 3/1/2013 4:04:52 AM
I have commented on the issue in the past... and I say the same thing...

to me it is not about the facts... well when you are dealing with a "cart before horse thinker"... you first makes a conclusion and then tries to find reasons to justify that prescribed view...

that is why I make the comparison to the OJ simpson murder trial...  that many people thought about this from a "cart before horse" thinking process...

Have you not heard me say this before?

let me give you a real life experience as an example...

I used to work with this one lady... she was african american... Im not being racist, I am just telling you about the situation...  and she told me that she followed the details of the OJ simpson case very closely...  and she felt that it was obvious that he was innocent...  and was completely incapable of being able to see anything but the conclusion she had already... just wanted to try to convince you he was innocent even if it didnt make sense...

The racial component of this case is clear similarity... As were the partisan lemmings...  you know... the kind of brainless followers that talk in terms of "we/us"...

This woman was an obama voter... I didnt work with her during the 2012 election but I would bet anything that she simply voted for obama again...  once again... not being racist... but she called herself a progressive but because of her weird religious views she was antigay and prolife...  because her church family values brainwashed her as much her partisan BS... but I think I can bet with confidence on her opinion on this case also... the white guy is getting away with killing the black guy... again...

you remind me alot of this woman...  not in what your views are... but how you think...

it is one thing to argue about the details like a GD discussion and play the "cart and horse" with out talking politics in the politics forum...

but if you would want to join me in a political discussion and talk about a socio-political aspects of the case, I would be happy to do so...

and do so with out meltdown and attacking people with insults calling them ignorant or boring... so please try and calm down before responding... thanks in advance...
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#125
Posted: 3/1/2013 10:53:07 AM
DL

I respect your story and personal experience. I hope you noticed that I have most always keep things civil until I have been bashed or attacked in some way for my views.

Yes I've made general statements to say that 'if you believe this then you are an idiot' but that is not a personal attack'.

Even regarding you and cdnumbers, I have kept things civil until you do something deliberate to try to piss me off.

If you've truly been paying attention to me and why I believe Zimmerman is innocent, then it is very ignorant to say that I am viewing this from a racist viewpoint.

I have stated very clearly the elements in the case and the lack of evidence the other way that lead me to change my initial stance and believe that Zimmerman is not guilty of murder.

Do you think Zimmerman is guilty of murder based on what you know about the case?

I do find it interesting, that you label me as the cart before the horse thinker on this. I only met the elements for that in the first three weeks because I hadn't studied the details closely.

Your example ignored several pieces of evidence to support her claim that OJ was innocent. There were thousands of people who felt like her about his case. Strangers usually don't turn their victims into a PEZ dispenser unless they are part of a drug cartel. That means the purp showed a lot of emotion in the killings and OJ had the best motive or skin in the game.

Please show me what evidence I have ignored to make you think I am like her!
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