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Author: [Politics] Topic: family of trayvon martin to hold one year rememberance in NYC tonight
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#51
Posted: 2/27/2013 8:56:33 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



Why is he a coward simply by carrying a concealed firearm?

You fail to hold Trayvon to a much different standard.

A. You don't start swinging until you're sure the other guy is going to do the same.

B. If you're winning the fight you scale back and control the situation until help arrives or the other person concedes.

I have yet to see/hear about anything that Zimmerman did to Trayvon physically that would justify Trayvon to repeatedly slam his head into the cement.

Furthermore, Zimmerman was likely very stunned by the punch that broke his nose.

Yet you seem to focus on the weopon that Zimmerman carried and not the clown actions of the dead person.

more examples
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#52
Posted: 2/27/2013 8:58:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

You and darkhorse are horrible at reading clues.

You ignored what I said about his tone of voice on the police call. His tone of voice was not the voice of some vigilante that was bent on going out of his way to get justice for what had been going on.

Who cares about what he should have done? Most issues happen because someone did something they shouldn't have. You can't put full blame on Zimmerman just because he chose door number 1. Trayvon had the option to simply find out exactly why Zimmerman was following him before he started swinging. Putting full blame on Zimmerman simply because he didn't head the words of a dispatcher is simply ignorance at its finest.

You would think that if he was a racist son of a girl that he would have screwed up on at least one of the other 40 or so calls to police. Or even if he was hell bent on getting even with the burglars.

If he moved from the neighborhood because of the crime then you could surely call him a coward. Clint Eastwood wouldn't have moved. Did you ever see the movie Grand Torino?

Just because you stay to help battle the criminals doesn't make you a vigilante. Especially with his tone of voice when he thinks there is going to be a confrontation.

more examples
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#53
Posted: 2/27/2013 9:55:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:


more examples


Is that the best you can do for detail? Anyone can say someone is being ignorant. But please elaborate as to what makes it ignorant.

I bet you can't do it. Just like it pains you to have this discussion because you can't refute what I've said.

But you'll choose some way of deflecting avoiding the whole thing. I know the real reason.
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#54
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:06:44 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by darkhorse12:

Doesn't take a detective to see that Z was in the wrong.He became the aggressor the second he ignored what he was told and followed M.

If he didn't want to confront M why did he follow him?

If I stop at a stop sign 39 out of 40 times and the one time I don't stop and kill or injure someone do I get credit for the 39 times I did?

Z was a hot head and a wannabe do you actually believe he didn't say something  when he was confronted by M?

 



I can follow you across the world without being an aggressor.

Think about it.
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#55
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:08:46 PM
If he didn't want to confront M why did he follow him?

I guess there is no chance in your head that Trayvon couldn't have doubled back to confront Zimmerman. Which is exactly what Zimmerman said happened.

Absent any conflicting evidence, what can you say otherwise?
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#56
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:13:46 PM
Bowl -- I am not going into examples because the entirety of your posts are examples.  I do not need to go through every sentence.  

Reread through your posts in this thread if you really want an answer. They are littered with speculative comments... 

You talk about

1) tone of voice
2) motivation when the cops are coming
3) scaling back when winning a fight (despite being in the heat of the moment)
4) Travon sucker punching Z...
5) Z not wanting to use his gun based because he his was concealed.
6) the points you make about the 35 other calls (what does that prove) etc...


These are just a few examples of speculation... If not speculation than what are they?????

Speculation is not a bad word - so do not get so offended. It just means that your are basing your opinion based on your interpretation of what you believe happened.

that is all I am trying to say.  
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#57
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:18:11 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



Is that the best you can do for detail? Anyone can say someone is being ignorant. But please elaborate as to what makes it ignorant.

I bet you can't do it. Just like it pains you to have this discussion because you can't refute what I've said.

But you'll choose some way of deflecting avoiding the whole thing. I know the real reason.

and contrary to what you believe -- I originally wanted to avoid the discussion because you and I have had EXHAUSTIVE discussions on this topic.  And therefore anything else is redundant and pointless.

Just because a new thread is made on this topic -- Why should you and I go through the motions of discussing a topic that we have 1) gone through IN GREAT DEPTH recently and 2) we both know that neither of us are going to be swayed by the other? 

it does not make sense.

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#58
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:20:08 PM
Mattbrot,

There is a severe lack of the 2nd side of this story. I agree to that fully.

If Zimmerman gets acquitted or sentenced it will be based on speculation.

If you add 1-6 up in post #58 it doesn't add up to murder.
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#59
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:23:24 PM
If you follow someone around the world that would be stalking and that could very easily be taken in a threatening manner.

Zimm can say anything he wants about Martin doubling back or any other part of the account of the story.

He definitely has some motivation to make it look like Martin was the aggressor and the bad guy.

Unfortunately we will never know the other side of the story because he followed after Martin, as he said in the 911 transcript, instead of doing what the dispatcher told him to do.

I just see more opportunities where Zimm could have defused the situation as oppose to where Martin could have. Not saying its entirely Zimm's fault but it seems most of it is.
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#60
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:24:23 PM
Don't forget that I have said more than once...when I first came across this story for 3 weeks I was on your side of this. Because I didn't dig all that deep into the witness statements and the chronological order of things.

I switched sides on the whole thing after I dove in and did some homework.

The main thing that some of these people are saying is that Z is guilty of murder because he kept following Trayvon after he was told that he didn't need to do it.

I checked the murder statute and that doesn't equal the elements necessary for a murder charge.
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#61
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:28:43 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:

If you follow someone around the world that would be stalking and that could very easily be taken in a threatening manner.

Zimm can say anything he wants about Martin doubling back or any other part of the account of the story.

He definitely has some motivation to make it look like Martin was the aggressor and the bad guy.

Unfortunately we will never know the other side of the story because he followed after Martin, as he said in the 911 transcript, instead of doing what the dispatcher told him to do.

I just see more opportunities where Zimm could have defused the situation as oppose to where Martin could have. Not saying its entirely Zimm's fault but it seems most of it is.


Very true, thats why we look at things like tone of voice when he thinks he might be confronted (in his truck with a locked door).

And then we look to see what happened the other 35 times he called police to report suspicious activity.

And then we look at the reasonable fact that Zimmerman knew the cops were on the way. That is not speculation as some other ignorant people might suggest.

What are the chances that Zimmerman gonna clown up when he knows the cops COULD be there in 10 seconds or whenever?
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#62
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:32:52 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Don't forget that I have said more than once...when I first came across this story for 3 weeks I was on your side of this. Because I didn't dig all that deep into the witness statements and the chronological order of things.

I switched sides on the whole thing after I dove in and did some homework.

The main thing that some of these people are saying is that Z is guilty of murder because he kept following Trayvon after he was told that he didn't need to do it.

I checked the murder statute and that doesn't equal the elements necessary for a murder charge.

  
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#63
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:44:32 PM
GUILTY !!! CASE COSED !!!
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#64
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:51:20 PM
Bowl,

What's your view on SYG as a whole?
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#65
Posted: 2/27/2013 10:57:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:

Bowl,

What's your view on SYG as a whole?


I agree with it.

I understand there will be cases that are troublesome.

The one where one guy picked a fight with another guy in a bar and then got his tail whipped pulled out a gun and tried to claim SYG.

Witness statements and other evidence that presents itself is key in these kinds of cases.


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#66
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:00:51 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:



Honestly though.... Please just shut up...

You're not a defense attorney in the state of Florida neither do you even have a law degree or an graduate degree (most likely) maybe not even a degree at all... Try not to get offended I'm only speculating based on your absurd comments over the course of time you've spent here on covers that have been characterized by really asinine comments as well as stupid ones..

However with all of that being said... Try to focus on what I'm about to type here instead: We the public will witness this trial beggining on April 22.

Again though, however, IF zimmerman does see jail time (25 years to life) it will be because of a decision by a jury, not bowslits very limited understanding of murder laws...


'An graduate degree'



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#67
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:21:26 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:



Yeah typos never happen.. Don't worry no one forgets your "80% of Americans own guns" comment...


"AN" is not a typo it is a grammatical error. No, really, I'm shocked that you didn't know the difference.

Anyway, Since when did I start calling you "BOSS"?

I DIDN'T

Go censor someone else docker.
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#68
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:25:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



'An graduate degree'




Bowl -- no need to get hung up on minor details like a vs an.  it really has NOTHING to do with the discussion.  


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#69
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:32:24 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:

You often see that especially those who are relegated to corrected spelling mistakes, grammatical mistakes, whatever he wishes to call it....

Point is.....IF zimmerman does see jail time (25 years to life) it will be because of a decision by a jury, not bowslits very limited understanding of murder laws...


Ok S hole.

I said that following someone doesn't qualify as murder and you had a problem with that statement and tried to censor me.

Please tell me what is wrong with that statement that makes it so absurd?
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#70
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:34:19 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:


Bowl -- no need to get hung up on minor details like a vs an.  it really has NOTHING to do with the discussion.  




Mattbrott.

Um no mention of anything to him for his censorship attempt on me?

Also, no mention to him that his statement had nothing to do with the discussion?

Are you playing favorites now?
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#71
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:39:17 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stiln:

I checked the murder statute and that doesn't equal the elements necessary for a murder charge.

He was charged with 2nd degree murder, so whatever you think, or whatever you think you know is WRONG!!!!!!!

You are not an attorney, law enforcement officer, or a criminal justice expert... Please don't offer any more asinine opinions on this subject......

As if your level of credibility hasn't reached negative levels by now on this site.....


If you really believe he SHOULD be charged with murder then please explain what he did that fits the statute for murder?


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#72
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:40:32 PM
Bowl -- I just respond to the comments (admittingly  those that I read).  
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#73
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:46:56 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



If you really believe he SHOULD be charged with murder then please explain what he did that fits the statute for murder?



sorry to be obvious man here... but he did kill someone.  

right or wrong WE DO NOT KNOW but the act of killing someone at a minimum fits the grounds for a murder investigation....


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#74
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:51:06 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by mattbrot:


sorry to be obvious man here... but he did kill someone.  

right or wrong WE DO NOT KNOW but the act of killing someone at a minimum fits the grounds for a murder investigation....




I watch Gunsmoke every now and then and bonanza. I've seen Hoss, Little Joe kill several people. Are you saying they committed murder every time?
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#75
Posted: 2/27/2013 11:54:12 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:



I watch Gunsmoke every now and then and bonanza. I've seen Hoss, Little Joe kill several people. Are you saying they committed murder every time?

sorry to sound condescending here - but is that really your counter argument???

We disagree on almost everything but you are better than that.....
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