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[Politics] Topic: Here's my question about Obamacare |
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ClubDirt |
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#1 Posted: 8/2/2012 11:11:17 PM
if you are a rightwing women, or a rightwing male married to a woman, or with a mother, daughter or other relative who's a woman or just like women in general, and you or she gets these medical benefits now for free under obamacare when before your/her insurance plan either didn't cover them or might arbitrarily deny them based on what some insurance company employee says you/she needs medically or made you/her pay a lot of money for them, do you still hate obamacare with a passion because foxnews and your favorite republican mouthpiece says it and its bad?
According to a new HHS report also released today, approximately 47
million women are in health plans that must cover these new preventive
services at no charge. Women, not insurance companies, can now make
health decisions that will keep them healthy, catch potentially serious
conditions at an earlier state, and protect them and their families
from crushing medical bills. The eight new prevention-related services are: - Well-woman visits.
- Gestational diabetes screening that helps protect pregnant women from one of the most serious pregnancy-related diseases.
- Domestic and interpersonal violence screening and counseling.
- FDA-approved contraceptive methods, and contraceptive education and counseling.
- Breastfeeding support, supplies, and counseling.
- HPV DNA testing, for women 30 or older.
- Sexually transmitted infections counseling for sexually-active women.
- HIV screening and counseling for sexually-active women.
The
health care law has already helped women in private plans and Medicare
for the first time gain access to potentially life-saving tests and
services such as mammograms, cholesterol screenings and flu shots
without coinsurance or deductibles.
These services are based on recommendations from the Institute of
Medicine, which relied on independent physicians, nurses, scientists and
other experts as well as evidence-based research to develop its
recommendations.
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don juan |
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#2 Posted: 8/3/2012 7:02:38 AM The answer is simple... they hate Obama SO much because he's against assault weapons, for womens rights, for equal rights, and Black, that they even vote against their own best interests.
They are brainwashed by Rush Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity and the rest of the Fox news propaganda machine. |
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ClubDirt |
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#3 Posted: 8/3/2012 10:33:39 AM
what is the thought process for others in a similar position.
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kaponofor3 |
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#4 Posted: 8/3/2012 11:35:35 AM
I think there is some significant disagreement CD about the part I have underlined here.
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kaponofor3 |
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#5 Posted: 8/3/2012 11:37:18 AM
I'm curious CD as to how all these new services will now be covered "at no charge". No such thing as a free lunch. Does the cost get passed on to health insurance policies held by men now? Or does the insurance company just stiff the doctor or the healthcare facility who performs these new services?
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#6 Posted: 8/3/2012 11:56:32 AM
Kap 
What is really funny that some lambs actually believe/ TRUST/worship how ANY government should have ANY bizness in my personal healtchcare decisions 
Is this REALLY how the 21st century Rome burns  
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ClubDirt |
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#7 Posted: 8/3/2012 12:04:11 PM
crusher, i'm not sure what you are trying to say there. what personal healthcare decisions is the government making for you? i thought the government was just forcing you to buy health insurance if you can afford it so i don't have to pay for your healthcare when you do use the healthcare system at some point, which you will.
but again, i'm not really taking a position on it. i read about it, if it makes sense, i like it but if it is skewed or inaccurate, i'm open to hearing about that. or, i could watch foxnews, have them tell me obamacare was conceived by the devil and be satisfied with that and the go buy a chick-fil-a sandwich and feel like i've support family values, whatever the darn that means.
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kaponofor3 |
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#8 Posted: 8/3/2012 12:13:59 PM
But think about the efforts and costs of enforcement, CD -- I find it really hard to believe that this would offset the costs of employing individuals to enforce the mandate as well as the resource cost of trying to collect the fees/penalties/tax if you don't comply with the mandate for coverage. Further, the amount that any uncovered individual would pay to get a policy that complies with the federal government mandates would be money that is sent to a private insurance company, not a government operated entity.
My point of view on this is that the law has a (hopefully unintended, but probably intended) benefit of driving private insurance companies out of business. How the hell can a private insurance company stay in business when they HAVE to cover pre-existing conditions?
Someone tell me what is the motivation to actually get coverage when you don't need it if, after you get sick or develop some sort of health condition, you can get insurance and that plan HAS to cover your expenses?
Government -- always about good intent, but rarely about results or effective execution.
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#9 Posted: 8/3/2012 12:24:04 PM
that being said, i agree with the rest of your post. the insurance stranglehold over an otherwise fucked up medical system is a disaster. will obamacare change it for the better? 1) i have no idea and 2) i doubt it. but many people are benefited by it. and i find it interesting, in a religious mindset sort of way, how some of those same people despise it because they are told to.
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Crusher13 |
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#10 Posted: 8/3/2012 12:48:28 PM
Rome burning, a successful democracy succumbs to it's own wealth, prosperity, and unquenching desire to overegulate.control, and mandate/dictate( ) destroying as of that time, the most advance society ever inhabiting this planet
Kap, every time I hear IRS agents, I always imagine the tax collectors absconding from the peasants
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ClubDirt |
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#11 Posted: 8/3/2012 1:20:45 PM
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bowlslit |
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#12 Posted: 8/3/2012 2:17:59 PM |
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lbcake |
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#13 Posted: 8/3/2012 6:54:31 PM |
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Stiln |
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#14 Posted: 8/4/2012 1:43:35 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:
I simply detest the mandate. I don't believe government has the right to force me to purchase somthing that I may or may not need.
Then move to a 3rd world country that doesn't force you to, perhaps you'd fair better in sudan..
Please name me one first world nation that doesnt have some kind of universal care for its citizens??
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djbrow |
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#15 Posted: 8/4/2012 7:32:25 AM
We already pay in multiple ways including the concept that unpaid medical expenses raise costs for all of us, donations for families, etc.
Take EMTALA away and there is no difference between our health care system and that of Somalia where you stand at the hospital entrance and beg until you have enough money to pay.
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thirdperson |
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#16 Posted: 8/4/2012 8:18:08 AM |
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#17 Posted: 8/4/2012 9:15:23 AM
PPACA insures the flow of rents to those who extract them from those who actually need the health care, (to the tune of 1 Trillion $ annually )
If this is your flow chart
People (who we will assume ALL NEED to use the services that health care providers, provide)
<EVERYONE THAT STAND BETWEEN THIS TRANSACTION AND DEMANDS YOU PAY THEIR TOLL BEFORE YOU CAN PASS THIS ECONOMIC BRIDGE>
Health care providers (who provide those services)
The red in the middle, is what is making health care so unaffordable. Health insurance was born of the concept that one couldn't afford health care on their own, so now that it too is unaffordable, the solution is a governmental assurance, so we can have insurance on our insurance. And magically, this will make something better? Lower costs? HOW?
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#18 Posted: 8/4/2012 11:52:23 AM
this, i fear, is a problem that will never have a real solution here. kind of like illegal immigration, the problem seems to be too big and too ingrained in our system for anyont to do, or want to do, anything about it. multibillion dollar industries and the politicians they own don't go down easily.
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thirdperson |
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#19 Posted: 8/4/2012 7:59:58 PM
Obamacare attempts to reduce insurance administrative costs but it is just a small part of total costs. Insurance premiums are high because of high healthcare costs and not high profit margins. According to Morningstar, U.S. health insurance industry's profit margin is low 3-4%. Even if administrative costs are reduced, healthcare costs would still be high. |
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dl36 |
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#20 Posted: 8/4/2012 8:59:27 PM
I am not saying I am for obama care... but a simple knee jerk reaction to obama care either way with out knowing what it really entails is just ignorant...
im with you CD... I want to know more about it
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ClubDirt |
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#21 Posted: 8/4/2012 9:08:11 PM
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dl36 |
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#22 Posted: 8/4/2012 9:26:42 PM
I think there is a difference between miseducation and pure ignorance... while often times especially in this forum they dont look much different...
as some that has experience working for/with public health care I can say that ER visits cost far more then urgent care, which cost far more then regular doctors visits...
so providing people with regular visits actually saves the overall system money... preventative care costs less then emergency care... plus a healthier america overall would cut costs also...
just like people that said that people receiving public health care should be drug tested and if they fail they should have their coverage taken away (dangerous precedent if that goes to the private sector)... I believe that if people dont make their regular preventative doctors visits for themselves and their children they should lose their benefits...
however that would never work because of the "Health Care Mandate" imposed by Reagan...
they would get their coverage cut... get sick and show up at the ER where reagan mandated that they must be treated at the level of care that is the highest cost to everyone...
So with the Reagan's healthcare mandate in place, preventative medicine is the best option to reduce costs... which is some thing that I think should be a part of the obama....
from a shortsighted standpoint, opening up coverage may seem like increasing costs... but when you factor in Reagan's healthcare mandate, having people avoid the most expensive levels of care with coverage for screening and regular visits seems like a prudent economical choice in the long run...
hard for the shortsighted people to grasp
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#23 Posted: 8/6/2012 3:42:12 PM Originally posted by stiln:
Then move to a 3rd world country that doesn't force you to, perhaps you'd fair better in sudan..
Please name me one first world nation that doesnt have some kind of universal care for its citizens??
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What a dumb suggestion. Are you suggesting that you're in favor of the government being able to force you to spend money on commerce?
If you are, then you may be even more ignorant than I had imagined.
If I wanted 'free' health care then I would move to Canada or France.
I should have the right to make my own decisions despite some people in this country thinking they can make them for me.
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dl36 |
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#24 Posted: 8/6/2012 9:13:10 PM 
his suggestion was to move to a 3rd world country.... plain and simple... no Spin, no BS... just move...
then.... he asked you to name one first world nation that doesnt have some kind of universal health care....
you didnt/couldnt...
The rest is your typical blabbering on about talking points
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Stiln |
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#25 Posted: 8/7/2012 1:03:05 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit: Originally posted by stiln:
Then move to a 3rd world country that doesn't force you to, perhaps you'd fair better in sudan..
Please name me one first world nation that doesnt have some kind of universal care for its citizens??
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What a dumb suggestion. Are you suggesting that you're in favor of the government being able to force you to spend money on commerce?
If you are, then you may be even more ignorant than I had imagined.
If I wanted 'free' health care then I would move to Canada or France.
I should have the right to make my own decisions despite some people in this country thinking they can make them for me.
Well you don't have your right and if you look around you (the world) nearly every single progressive industrialized nation has some kind of universal care whether it be part of a Bismark model, national health insurance model, or Beveridge.
But then again you probably no 0 about the various health care models that use utilized around the globe.
Google it..... You're obviously not very informed.
But you seem to insist that we should have the out-of-pocket model that nearly the entire world aside from AFrica, rural parts of india, and south America have.
Like I said before if you don't want to pay into a system that clearly works in other parts of the world... THEN MOVE!!!!!
Because that's tough garbage, bowlfuck...
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