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Author: [Politics] Topic: Open & Shut Trayvon Martin Gets Cluttered With Facts
bowlslit send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: 5Dimes |
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#451
Posted: 4/3/2012 4:43:40 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

He shouldn't have "lost sight" of him to being with. Let the cops find him.

Its really sad that all of your "FACTS" are falling apart and all of your projections turning out to be wrong.

It must really suck to have no common sense.

I have to speculate because I'll never know what its like.

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cashin
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#452
Posted: 4/3/2012 5:09:40 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Its really sad that all of your "FACTS" are falling apart and all of your projections turning out to be wrong.

It must really suck to have no common sense.

I have to speculate because I'll never know what its like.

Bowl - not saying it's illegal, but obviously it's not the job of a watchman to pursue or stalk someone & then confront them. From what I understand, it's just to alert police & then wait for them.

2 questions - what will you think if it's clearly shown that it's Martins voice crying for help, not Z's?

And would the gf's statement saying what she's already said about their phone conversation (which also contradicts Z's story) change anything for you? Or would you just believe she's lying? 

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#453
Posted: 4/3/2012 5:15:03 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

Bowl - not saying it's illegal, but obviously it's not the job of a watchman to pursue or stalk someone & then confront them. From what I understand, it's just to alert police & then wait for them.

2 questions - what will you think if it's clearly shown that it's Martins voice crying for help, not Z's?

And would the gf's statement saying what she's already said about their phone conversation (which also contradicts Z's story) change anything for you? Or would you just believe she's lying? 

A. Just because its not his job does that mean you charge him with somthing?

B. I could give a darn about an expert that doesn't have voice samples to do a proper eval. I care about Trayvons father saying it wasn't his sons voice AND I care about the 13 year old boy saying he saw the one on the bottom screaming. Based on the police report of Zimmerman bleeding from his nose and the back of his head...HE WAS ON THE BOTTOM.

C. The girlfiend said she heard Trayvon ask Z "Why are you following me" and then she heard a man say "What are you doing around here?"

What is so incriminating about that?

 

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#454
Posted: 4/3/2012 5:17:25 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

Its really sad that all of your "FACTS" are falling apart and all of your projections turning out to be wrong.

It must really suck to have no common sense.

I have to speculate because I'll never know what its like.

I feel the same way
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#455
Posted: 4/3/2012 5:26:20 PM
There is so much conflicting information.  The only thing to do is let them finish the investigation and answer all these questions.  
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cashin
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#456
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:07:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bowlslit:

A. Just because its not his job does that mean you charge him with somthing?

B. I could give a darn about an expert that doesn't have voice samples to do a proper eval. I care about Trayvons father saying it wasn't his sons voice AND I care about the 13 year old boy saying he saw the one on the bottom screaming. Based on the police report of Zimmerman bleeding from his nose and the back of his head...HE WAS ON THE BOTTOM.

C. The girlfiend said she heard Trayvon ask Z "Why are you following me" and then she heard a man say "What are you doing around here?"

What is so incriminating about that?

 

A Meaningless - never said that

B And Martins parents say it was Trayvon. But you don't care what 2 independent voice experts with the latest technology & a reputation to uphold have to say? 

C Her affadavit contradict's Z's account & if believed, shows him to be lying.

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#457
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:15:58 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

A Meaningless - never said that

B And Martins parents say it was Trayvon. But you don't care what 2 independent voice experts with the latest technology & a reputation to uphold have to say? 

C Her affadavit contradict's Z's account & if believed, shows him to be lying.

Think about it.The only reason his parents changed their mind is because it paints Trayvon as a fight starter or fight instigator and doesn't fit their 'victim' mentality.

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#458
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:20:50 PM
I don't believe George Zimmerman was on duty as neighborhood watch that night .. when he called 911  (call 1) he didn't identify himself as such.........he was going /coming to Target ..on the way home..
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#459
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:29:23 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by SarasotaSlim:

I don't believe George Zimmerman was on duty as neighborhood watch that night .. when he called 911  (call 1) he didn't identify himself as such.........he was going /coming to Target ..on the way home..

I heard the same thing. Which changes the whole dynamic of him being stupid or not for having the gun on him.

If he was not on duty, then I don't see it as being stupid.

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#460
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:34:55 PM

I've also listened to the 911 tape over 10x's ,that they claim he said under his breath "F'kin person.." [he was basically talking to himself] not to the 911 dispacher and not to Tayvon....

I don't hear that ..beyond a reasonable doubt..what I hear I is something I've said before myself many times " F'kin alanColmes"..

We also know that he is bilingual and speaks Spanish often during the day ..he could have accidentally struck himself in the groin area while running ..because he was carrying a phone and said "F'kin cojones"..

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#461
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:44:24 PM
I never claimed to be anything. That was you. I am still waiting for you to discuss how many criminal cases you have been involved with, how many cases involving bullet injuries you have tried, and how many Motions to Suppress you have filed based on initial police investigatory work at the crime scene.
=========================

You are claiming to have filed motions to suppress.

For starters.

the examiner will determine cause of death, nature of wounds, and nature of injuries.

===========================
The medical examiner will also figure out the path of bullets.
You left that part out.

This is simply outside the scope of a medical examiner.
=======================

Um, Dr. DiMaio was a medical examiner.

If a medical examiner tried to testify to the above at trial, it would be excluded under the Frye Standard.
===========================

Er, you mean unless the medical examiner was Dr. DiMaio, right?

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#462
Posted: 4/3/2012 6:50:18 PM
But you don't care what 2 independent voice experts with the latest technology & a reputation to uphold have to say? 

====================

You don't have any clue what they actually said.

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#463
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:32:01 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

But you don't care what 2 independent voice experts with the latest technology & a reputation to uphold have to say? 

====================

You don't have any clue what they actually said.

OK, then go read it for yourself

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#464
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:41:42 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by cashin:

OK, then go read it for yourself


Er, I did.

And they didn't say what you said they did.
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#465
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:42:12 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:

I never claimed to be anything. That was you. I am still waiting for you to discuss how many criminal cases you have been involved with, how many cases involving bullet injuries you have tried, and how many Motions to Suppress you have filed based on initial police investigatory work at the crime scene.
=========================

You are claiming to have filed motions to suppress.

For starters.

the examiner will determine cause of death, nature of wounds, and nature of injuries.

===========================
The medical examiner will also figure out the path of bullets.
You left that part out.

This is simply outside the scope of a medical examiner.
=======================

Um, Dr. DiMaio was a medical examiner.

If a medical examiner tried to testify to the above at trial, it would be excluded under the Frye Standard.
===========================

Er, you mean unless the medical examiner was Dr. DiMaio, right?

Um, no. I asked you how many you filed.

'Medical examiner' is a broad descriptor similar to 'doctor.'

You should read Dr. Di Maio's book. He admits that, while he likely one of the world experts on bullet wounds, he wouldn't be qualified to testify as to the cause of death. It is quite a remarkable read.

And the part I quoted was the distance chapter. It are those kind of specificities that a simple medical examiner would not be qualified to determine.

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#466
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:45:21 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

That is my point. A medical examiner's office doesn't perform wound ballistics. A medical examiner's officer performs an autopsy. 

 


Really?

Adeowale "Wally" Adelowo died on Nov. 6, 2009, of multiple gunshot wounds to his back, hip and stomach, according to Dr. Daniel Konzelmann, associate medical examiner for the Arkansas Crime Laboratory.

The doctor testified Wednesday during the first-degree murder trial of Cordell Wells, 24, who is charged with Adelowo's murder.

The victim had a total of eight gunshot wounds, the medical examiner testified, but only five bullets were recovered from Adelowo's body. Some of the wounds had corresponding exit wounds, he told the jury and Prosecuting Attorney Scott Ellington.

The wounds were to Adelowo's center back, the left hip, the right buttock, the back of the right thigh, the left side of the abdomen, the right arm, lower left stomach, and left hand.

The back wound caused injuries to the stomach, liver and other organs before coming to rest in the lower back of the chest cavity, the doctor testified. The abdomen wound caused injuries to the small bowel, pancreas, liver, diaphragm, cardiac sac and the heart.

There was no evidence that any of the bullets were fired from close range, the doctor said.

Under cross examination by defense attorney Bill Stanley, Konzelmann explained the trajectory of the wounds, or the direction from which the gun was fired.

Using his co-counsel, Ray Nickle as a model, Stanley had the doctor demonstrate the angle of each shot and suggested that the shooter would have to be kneeling or lying on the ground to fire from the right angles.

In further testimony, Ellington, using his deputy, Curtis Walker Jr. as a model, demonstrated how the shots could have been fired from a normal, standing position if the victim were trying to get away from the shots.

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#467
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:48:19 PM
'Medical examiner' is a broad descriptor similar to 'doctor.'

=====================

Um, I've only used "medical examiner's" office six times now.

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#468
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:49:45 PM
And the part I quoted was the distance chapter. It are those kind of specificities that a simple medical examiner would not be qualified to determine.


Um, I just linked you to a contemporary news account proving other wise.

Would you like another one?
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#469
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:56:13 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by 14daroad:


Really?

Adeowale "Wally" Adelowo died on Nov. 6, 2009, of multiple gunshot wounds to his back, hip and stomach, according to Dr. Daniel Konzelmann, associate medical examiner for the Arkansas Crime Laboratory.

The doctor testified Wednesday during the first-degree murder trial of Cordell Wells, 24, who is charged with Adelowo's murder.

The victim had a total of eight gunshot wounds, the medical examiner testified, but only five bullets were recovered from Adelowo's body. Some of the wounds had corresponding exit wounds, he told the jury and Prosecuting Attorney Scott Ellington.

The wounds were to Adelowo's center back, the left hip, the right buttock, the back of the right thigh, the left side of the abdomen, the right arm, lower left stomach, and left hand.

The back wound caused injuries to the stomach, liver and other organs before coming to rest in the lower back of the chest cavity, the doctor testified. The abdomen wound caused injuries to the small bowel, pancreas, liver, diaphragm, cardiac sac and the heart.

There was no evidence that any of the bullets were fired from close range, the doctor said.

Under cross examination by defense attorney Bill Stanley, Konzelmann explained the trajectory of the wounds, or the direction from which the gun was fired.

Using his co-counsel, Ray Nickle as a model, Stanley had the doctor demonstrate the angle of each shot and suggested that the shooter would have to be kneeling or lying on the ground to fire from the right angles.

In further testimony, Ellington, using his deputy, Curtis Walker Jr. as a model, demonstrated how the shots could have been fired from a normal, standing position if the victim were trying to get away from the shots.

I have no idea what this is trying to show. The article referred to the expert as a medical examiner and a Dr. If a DNA expert testifies at trial, he would likely be referred to as Dr. as well. It hardly means that any doctor would be competent to testify as to such a specific area.

Its clear at this point that you are just arguing to argue. It would be great if you read the book because I think you would get a clear understanding of the distinctions.

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#470
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:56:45 PM
Um, no. I asked you how many you filed.

================


are you going to pretend you didn't say you've read thousands of pages of police reports?
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#471
Posted: 4/3/2012 7:58:35 PM
I have no idea what this is trying to show.

Um, really?

Because  you asserted that wound ballistics " include an examination of the wound to determine distance, angles, trajectory, and powder burns"

Or are you going to pretend that the associate medical examiner didn't testify about distance and trajectory?

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#472
Posted: 4/3/2012 8:01:16 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by djbrow:

That is my point. A medical examiner's office doesn't perform wound ballistics. A medical examiner's officer performs an autopsy. 

 


I guess that is why an associate medical examiner is in court testifying about the distance between the shooter and the victim and the angle of the bullets entering the body.

 
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#473
Posted: 4/3/2012 8:12:31 PM
Its clear at this point that you are just arguing to argue.

=====================

No, it is clear you've been exposed.

I think it is possible you're in law school, but there is no way in hell you're a practicing attorney in the criminal area. Nor have you  seen hundreds, if not thousands of investigative reports after shootings. 

Never. 
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#474
Posted: 4/3/2012 8:15:04 PM

Except you have no idea of the training of Dr. Konzelman. As I said above, Dr. Di Miao states he wouldn't be qualified to testify as to cause of death. Forsensic science is truly intricate in nature.

I look forward to discussing this after you have read his book.

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#475
Posted: 4/3/2012 8:20:10 PM
QUOTE
Originally Posted by djbrow:

I've seen hundreds, if not thousands of investigative reports after shootings. Never have a seen one where the police refused to question the shooter, nor where no ballistic tests were conducted.

Never. 


I don't believe you.

You asserted that you concluded that no wound ballistics were conducted because it is absent in the police report. No such information would be contained in a report by officers at the scene of a shooting.

You asserted a medical examiner's office doesn't perform wound ballistics. I can link you to hundreds of stories demonstrating various medical examiner's testify in trials regarding the examination of the wound to determine distance, angles, trajectory, and powder burns"

Example:
The afternoon session began with Dr. Cynthia Gardner, Chapel Hill’s former chief medical examiner, who performed Carson’s autopsy. Gardner confirmed that Eve Carson was shot five times on the morning of March 5, 2008—in the face, body, right arm and right buttock with a handgun, and in the right temple with a shotgun.

“Only one wound was immediately fatal, and that was the shotgun wound to the head,” she said. Carson also had a shotgun wound to the hand—a defensive wound, Gardner said, as she raised her hand to block the shot.

Gardner said the evidence indicates that Carson was shot from a distance of 2 to 4 feet. 

==============

There is simply no way you're being honest.


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