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[Politics] Topic: US Domestic Drilling vs. Price of Gas |
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DiscoD69 |
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#1 Posted: 3/21/2012 4:16:01 PM
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KOAJ |
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#2 Posted: 3/21/2012 4:17:55 PM
drilling helps if there is rising demand, but demand is collapsing in the US. people who call for drilling as a solution to high gas prices don't understand why gas prices went up in the first place
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potter36 |
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#3 Posted: 3/21/2012 4:19:52 PM |
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KOAJ |
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#4 Posted: 3/21/2012 4:20:44 PM
she studied economics in college and has a degree in it and not once did she mention the Federal Reserve in relation to commodity pricing in her article
thats a lot of money down the toilet. i guess when your paycheck is from government grants and from parties who want you to publish pieces favorable to them you turn a blind eye to facts
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DiscoD69 |
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#5 Posted: 3/21/2012 5:08:57 PM 
KOAJ goes a roundabout way to bring up a good point, that ultimately a variety of factors affect the price of gas, not just domestic drilling.
I believe that was the point of the article KOAJ. You have a special place in your talking points for the fed, but I'm sure there are other factors she left out as well. You talk fed, I'll talk oil industry greed and price gouging.
The point is, it's not just 'Drill Baby Drill' like the GOP want the heard to believe.  |
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wallstreetcappers |
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#6 Posted: 3/21/2012 5:15:03 PM
Until OPEC is taken apart or we control 90% of domestic supply, AND remove speculators from the commodities arena, pricing will continue to be removed from the supply and demand curve.
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#7 Posted: 3/21/2012 5:48:51 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69: What are you guys talking about? It's an AP study using EIA data.
KOAJ goes a roundabout way to bring up a good point, that ultimately a variety of factors affect the price of gas, not just domestic drilling.
I believe that was the point of the article KOAJ. You have a special place in your talking points for the fed, but I'm sure there are other factors she left out as well. You talk fed, I'll talk oil industry greed and price gouging.
The point is, it's not just 'Drill Baby Drill' like the GOP want the heard to believe.
why yes, you ought be sure, because there are many moving parts here. Why didn't she chart domestic production and price per gallon of gas, along with interest rates, and money supply? We all know monetary issues effect gas prices more than domestic production.
2001 Oil Consumption by Nation
# 1 United States: 19,650,000 bbl/day
# 2 Japan: 5,290,000 bbl/day
# 3 China: 4,570,000 bbl/day
2009 Oil Consumption by Nation
# 1 United States: 18,690,000 bbl/day
# 2 China: 8,200,000 bbl/day
# 3 Japan: 4,363,000 bbl/day
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cd329 |
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#8 Posted: 3/21/2012 5:54:01 PM
To much of our economy relies on oil and theres no reason for groups of speculators messing with our economy.
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KOAJ |
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#9 Posted: 3/21/2012 6:39:34 PM
blaming speculators is typical and ridiculous
in March 09, avg gas was 1.75 or so right before QE1. 3 years later with trillions of money printed its 3.90 or so
is there more than double the demand? no
cd - please please watch the bears movie i linked above...5 minutes
disco you too...please i beg you to watch the bears
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KOAJ |
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#10 Posted: 3/21/2012 6:41:05 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers: Its a control of supply issue.
Until OPEC is taken apart or we control 90% of domestic supply, AND remove speculators from the commodities arena, pricing will continue to be removed from the supply and demand curve.
every small business in the world speculates...when we buy product, we need to have enough confidence that we can sell the item at our price in 60 days or less
without speculation, there is no business at all. Walmart, Target, grocery stores all speculate. they analyze past sales trends and patterns and stock accordingly
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#11 Posted: 3/21/2012 6:59:32 PM
speculation in a fascist system where the most politically privileged are free to operate knowing that losses are socialized and profits privatized, all the while trapping the plebs into a zero sum game/chicken fight, where they feed um keep um fat and speculate on which one will peck the other to death first = 
you can look at any market, and there is a open price. That is at this moment in time, the present, what it costs to trade said item. What will oil cost tommorrow? how about 48 years from now when i'm 78 and eligible for Social Security? to ask or answer those questions is to engage in speculation.
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wallstreetcappers |
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#12 Posted: 3/21/2012 7:28:36 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by KOAJ:
every small business in the world speculates...when we buy product, we need to have enough confidence that we can sell the item at our price in 60 days or less
without speculation, there is no business at all. Walmart, Target, grocery stores all speculate. they analyze past sales trends and patterns and stock accordingly
There is a difference between hedging and speculating.
I dont care if someone speculates, just adjust the speculation leverage rate..make the speculators have more skin in the game, then you weed the rats out and leave the hedgers and respectful parties in.
No reason that you should have the leverage we see now, it serves no purpose on a liquidity level or any other reason than to feed the beast..
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OakleyDoak |
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#13 Posted: 3/21/2012 7:31:26 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by KOAJ:
watch the bears
drilling helps if there is rising demand, but demand is collapsing in the US. people who call for drilling as a solution to high gas prices don't understand why gas prices went up in the first place
"Markets will go to equilibrium regardless of what speculators do."
The 'falling dollar' is responsible for current spikes in gas price - despite 'high supply & low demand.'
Thanks for this link.
Da bears -  |
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wallstreetcappers |
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#14 Posted: 3/21/2012 7:35:13 PM
Speculators are front running and speculating. You can have a currency in flux and not have a correlating effect on commodities.
One is driving the other because people are making money off the correlation.
Put some margin increases in the pits and see what happens...that will never happen because the CBOE makes more money when more contracts are traded..you raise the margin requirements and volume goes down..so greed feeds greed.
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OakleyDoak |
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#15 Posted: 3/21/2012 7:42:15 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
I dont buy the falling dollar comment, compare the USD vs the Euro or other currencies..compare the rate now vs in 2008, what do you see?
Speculators are front running and speculating. You can have a currency in flux and not have a correlating effect on commodities.
One is driving the other because people are making money off the correlation.
Put some margin increases in the pits and see what happens...that will never happen because the CBOE makes more money when more contracts are traded..you raise the margin requirements and volume goes down..so greed feeds greed.
WELL,
now I'm back to being confounded !
I better educate myself and stay tuned-in. |
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#16 Posted: 3/21/2012 7:58:28 PM
the dollar is weakening because of the increase in debt burden. individuals/private sector is delevering while the public sector is picking up their slack and then some.
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rooster010 |
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#17 Posted: 3/21/2012 8:00:23 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by KOAJ:
watch the bears
drilling helps if there is rising demand, but demand is collapsing in the US. people who call for drilling as a solution to high gas prices don't understand why gas prices went up in the first place
  the bernanke |
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DiscoD69 |
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#18 Posted: 3/22/2012 9:58:49 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by KOAJ:
watch the bears
drilling helps if there is rising demand, but demand is collapsing in the US. people who call for drilling as a solution to high gas prices don't understand why gas prices went up in the first place
Your video focuses on the fed (colour me surprised), but I don't know if it explained why prices fluctuate in relation to their argument. Maybe I missed it.
If you listened to the logic in the video, prices would always act according to the actions of the fed (constant printing), so in essence they are saying prices constantly rise. Except they don't.
Maybe it was the robot voices but that video didn't really help much.
The message: It's not oil/gas companies, it's not wall st., no mention of OPEC... it's Bernanke, the fed, and the gov't all causing an increase in price through inflation.
I don't think that's accurate. Using that logic prices would follow inflation and steadily rise but there are too many fluctuations for me to buy into that. I think generally inflation has an effect and doesn't help, but that can be said for ANY product or commodity. It's not specific to gas prices at all.
Also, why couldn't they get real voices or actors to do that video? What are they afraid of? Why angry libertarian robot bears?  |
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KOAJ |
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#19 Posted: 3/22/2012 12:18:04 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by wallstreetcappers:
I dont buy the falling dollar comment, compare the USD vs the Euro or other currencies..compare the rate now vs in 2008, what do you see?
Speculators are front running and speculating. You can have a currency in flux and not have a correlating effect on commodities.
One is driving the other because people are making money off the correlation.
Put some margin increases in the pits and see what happens...that will never happen because the CBOE makes more money when more contracts are traded..you raise the margin requirements and volume goes down..so greed feeds greed.
they are all paper fiat currencies all getting weaker simultaneously compared to gold, silver, cotton, oil, copper etc
when QE was announced or there were rumors in mid 08, i called my financial advisor to figure how to play it. my logic was simple, if the dollar gets weaker, things traded in dollars go up, or at least stay the same regarding purchasing power...so i bought silver, and double long ETFs loaded in commodities. is that front running? speculation?
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KOAJ |
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#20 Posted: 3/22/2012 12:19:02 PM
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so if the markets are flooded with reserve currency dollars, that has no affect on the price of oil? 
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KOAJ |
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#21 Posted: 3/22/2012 12:26:29 PM
money printing by the Fed has been slow and steady from 1913 to 2008, since 2008, they have been pushing Ctrl-P non stop
why is having the reserve currency is so important? well you can export your inflation meaning you can print money to no end or until the market collapses and if someone tries to get off your reserve currency to trade oil for gold, you use your 2m strong army to bomb the piss out of them (see Iraq and Libya and soon Iran although I hope not)
it is the greatest robbery in human history
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rick3117 |
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#22 Posted: 3/22/2012 12:49:05 PM
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wallstreetcappers |
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#23 Posted: 3/22/2012 1:42:50 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by KOAJ: You can have a currency in flux and not have a correlating effect on commodities. ---------- so if the markets are flooded with reserve currency dollars, that has no affect on the price of oil?
I think you know the answer to that question. A flood of currency dollars does nothing unless it is used.
Sometimes I wonder if you hold onto logic just to make an argument.
I dont recall you mentioning going long leveraged commodities, you have always been long the inverse 10 yr..but if you did that, congrats.
And to answer the question, are you using 10-20-30-50 to 1 leverage and moving the markets on your little trade? I dont think so.
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wallstreetcappers |
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#24 Posted: 3/22/2012 1:43:56 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by rick3117: Euro + US both going down in value, but they are falling in tandem with small divergence.
Bingo..
The logic of excess supply of USD equating to a falling currency is flawed. The currency rate is relative to another. I dont know how that elementary concept is so often lost.
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14daroad |
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#25 Posted: 3/22/2012 1:57:39 PM From the article:
Then-Sen. Barack Obama said in 2008, when he was running for president, that "here in Ohio, you're paying nearly $3.70 a gallon for gas, 2-1/2 times what it cost when George Bush took office."
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And where were all the AP "facts" and "analysis" on domestic drilling during that time?
A bunch of leftists took to the Internet to point out how silly Obama was for trying to use gas prices as a campaign tool, right?
*GIGGLE* |
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