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Okay all kidding a side, how does our country fix this

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Posted: #1
whole entire mess we are in?  I mean with all these businesses and banks failing, states and local govts are right around the corner.
How could all these things just be failing at the same time?  Was there no good management in place anywhere.
 
So i really would like to hear some ideas that can be done to save this country before we all are in gun battles with our neighbors over a can of tuna fish.  Please dont post any smart ass comments like its all the unions faults or other silly comments, am being dead serious about this. Personally i dont have a clue as to what can be done to save this country and even the rest of the world.  The only thing that i can think of, is do we have to many people actually living in our country to actually support our country?  I mean we have 300 million people in the country, is that to many for the country to support?
cd
I really believe we are headed towards a major depression that cant be stopped with a massive revolution happening in the country.
 
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Posted: #2
Tell the "capitalists" to stop buying Hondas.
 
 
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Seriously, if Americans only bought American products, we would be in charge.
 
Global powers are being fought in the marketplace and cash registers.  This pipe dream of the military solving problems is ridiculous.
 
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Posted: #4
California might be the first to go bankrupt

If people start saving money, this market may face a liquidity trap which will cause a depression from deflation (Look at Japan in the 90's). But since the Fed cut target rates to 0-2.5%, basically we need to start spending money to stimulate the economy.  Basically right now we are fixing deflation by risking the future of inflation (hopefully we won't face hyperinflation ).  To be quite honest, I have no idea how we are going to jump start this economy with rising unemployment rates (b/c banks aren't willing to lend). Also those who wants to refinance their home needs a damn good credit score (I believe you need at least a 720 FICO score). I think right now, we gotta rely a lot on the fiscal policy now. I believe Obama and his team is working on a stimulus plan (which should be a massive package) SO PEOPLE IN DEBT, PLEASE PAY OFF YOUR DAMN DEBT!!!

Also after this mortgage crisis, we gotta deal with ALT-A and Option ARMS loans which I heard from some reports are defaulting pretty bad.
 
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Home mortgages have nothing to do with it.  The commercial financing market is all but frozen and that creates the jobs and funds so people can pay the mortgages.
 
The banks have taken a hit with some bad residential mortgages but the problem will multipy if they don't free up the commercial financing.
 
 
 
 
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What I will never understand is how these so called Neo Con "Republicans" drive aroud in Hondas.
 
Of all the crazy political discussions we have had in this forum, that is the one thing that I simply do not get.
 
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In my opinion, I think the CDO assets are just worthless. You can talk about mark to market killing these values, but overall I think these assets are just overpriced. People had money to buy these toxic assets, but there was just no demand for these assets.  The credit market is thawing out, but if you read the Minnesota Fed report they actually debunked 4 myths about this crisis (this report came out right when the bailouts occurred) .
1. Bank lending to nonfinancial corporations and individuals has declined sharply.
2. Interbank lending is essentially nonexistent.
3. Commercial paper issuance by nonfinancial corporations has declined sharply and rates have risen to unprecedented levels.
4. Banks play a large role in channeling funds from savers to borrowers.

 
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Posted: #8
Very long recession - maybe call it depression is definitely in front of us.
 
The fed keeps coming up with new ways to inject liquidity - but it is and always has been a short term fix, exasterbating the problem at hand.
 
There is a huge problem of overcapacity, overconsuption, personal and state debt.  It will not go away until there is a prolonged recession, and considerable inflation in that process.  This is economic fact.
 
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Posted: #9
Quote Originally Posted by FriedShrimp:

What I will never understand is how these so called Neo Con "Republicans" drive aroud in Hondas.
 
Of all the crazy political discussions we have had in this forum, that is the one thing that I simply do not get.


this is not about neo-cons... 
You know what the "status car " is to liberals out west/
THE TOYOTA PRIUS 
Despite many of them having multiple houses and some don't even fly commercial.
That is hypocrisy on steroids.


I agree we need to not just buy american BUT to protect american workers via our trade agreements. Other countries have such restrictive trade agreements with us and we let them do it.

I had a friend who was in japan and long story short saw how expensive fruit was in japan. The laws to ship fruit there seemed pretty lax so he sent a ton of fruit to japan to sell.

You know what japan does? They keep it on the docks, "double checking your permits, credentials, type of fruit etc etc "  FOR WEEKS INTENTIONALLY. Until the fruit is almost 100% spoiled, then they have another crook come over to you and buy your load for next to nothing so you can salvage some of your investment.  That crook then sells it to factories that process it in other products, like yogurts, and beverages. Products where if the fruit is bruised or close to spoiled it is still usable.

This is the type of economic terrorism we fight EVERY DAY worldwide and we are too stupid to hit back.
 
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Posted: #10
Do we need a Lee Greenwood concert? Rally that nationalistic pride? 
 
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Posted: #11
Quote Originally Posted by FriedShrimp:

What I will never understand is how these so called Neo Con "Republicans" drive aroud in Hondas.
 
Of all the crazy political discussions we have had in this forum, that is the one thing that I simply do not get.

It's good to see an open-minded liberal that does not stereotype people and the type of vehicle they drive.  Maybe you can go after some of your fellow liberals for driving the Toyota Prius' and then patting themselves on the back for single-handedly stopping global warming.  Maybe you could go after the lesbians and there love for driving Subarus. 

In Minnesota liberals are far more likely to drive foreign vehicles in my opinion.  Not scientific fact but if you look at who is a republican, mostly outdoorsmen like hunters and fisherman drive F150s, GM 1500s, explorers, trailblazers, and suvs that can tow.  Now  go to the teacher's parking lot (mostly liberals) and look at all the accords, camrys, altimas, and sonatas.  Again not a scientific fact but I definitely see more of the egg-head liberals who should be buying american and supporting fellow union members driving foreign cars.  Check out your local teacher's parking lot and see if you see this also.

 
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Posted: #12
Quote Originally Posted by heywud34:

It's good to see an open-minded liberal that does not stereotype people and the type of vehicle they drive.  Maybe you can go after some of your fellow liberals for driving the Toyota Prius' and then patting themselves on the back for single-handedly stopping global warming.  Maybe you could go after the lesbians and there love for driving Subarus. 

In Minnesota liberals are far more likely to drive foreign vehicles in my opinion.  Not scientific fact but if you look at who is a republican, mostly outdoorsmen like hunters and fisherman drive F150s, GM 1500s, explorers, trailblazers, and suvs that can tow.  Now  go to the teacher's parking lot (mostly liberals) and look at all the accords, camrys, altimas, and sonatas.  Again not a scientific fact but I definitely see more of the egg-head liberals who should be buying american and supporting fellow union members driving foreign cars.  Check out your local teacher's parking lot and see if you see this also.


BULLSEYE!  The hypocrisy is surreal...
 
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Posted: #13
my favorite is seeing the Obama/Biden stickers on Saabs and VWs and some Japanese autos

for what its worth...instead of giving the autos cash, we should allow people to substitute paying taxes for buying an american car

ex. - if your federal taxes are 20k this year, you should be able to get a refundable tax credit from the Feds for buying a Ford, GM, etc

no bailout and people are incentivized into buying american cars

i know this reeks of protectionism which i hate but this would eliminate the auto bailout and lessen the tax burden on americans
 
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Posted: #14
Guys i didnt want this thread to just be about the auto bailout.  I wanted to hear some real ideas on everything that is failing in the country right now.  How do we fix all these things?
 
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Posted: #15
Look, the cost of living keeps going up. Wages don't keep up.
It all started to go down fast when gallon of gas went to 4$ per gal.
Supply side economics don't work.
Consumer is over 70% of the economy, they lose faith, stop spending.
You have what you have now.
To many people that are in charge do nothing but talk about this talk about that, but do nothing.
Would you have bought a Prius if gas wasn't 4$, hell no.
There are so many scam, ripoffs, graft,kickbacks, shake downs, you can't keep up. Trust no one, is what it is and has been for at least 10 yrs that I know of. Getting worse. What goes around comes around, folks.
 
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I like Koaj's idea of a tax credit for buying american cars.  Same thing as a bailout when you boil it down though.  Still taxpayer money.
 
goinggone is right, we are a 70% consumer economy.  The problem is we are not competitive enough in the global economy. 
 
I think it is a pretty easy fix but will need "protectionist" tactics.
 
Koaj- What do you not like about Protectionism?
 
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Posted: #17
Quote Originally Posted by FriedShrimp:

I like Koaj's idea of a tax credit for buying american cars.  Same thing as a bailout when you boil it down though.  Still taxpayer money.
 
goinggone is right, we are a 70% consumer economy.  The problem is we are not competitive enough in the global economy. 
 
I think it is a pretty easy fix but will need "protectionist" tactics.
 
Koaj- What do you not like about Protectionism?

Not KOAJ but, here goes...

Protectionism is bad for our country because it lowers our standard of living. We should not subsidize industries that cannot compete with the rest of the world on equal footing. 

Have you ever heard of the term "camparative advantage?" It simply states, if another country can produce a good at a lower cost, it is in their best interest for the global eonomy to produce that good and export it. On the other hand, if Americans working in the steel and auto industry cannot produce these goods at a lower cost and compete globally with these other countries, they should not be producing these goods.

 Simply put, protectionism is bad for the american economy, because it raises prices on consumers, leads to inefficiencies, and lowers the standard of living. 
 
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Posted: #18
the start of ANY recovery is probably going to be straightening out the housing foreclosure mess.
 
was watching 20/20 friday night and it seems like a a lot of the home foreclosures are because of of adjustable rate mortgages or "ARM's", which many buyers or refinancers got tricked into, re-setting.
 
seems like the solution would be to allow qualified owners to refinance. this isn't going to save the "NINJA-Liar Loan" people or most speculators that were buying homes or condos just to "flip" BUT it would definately help. from what I saw last night, a lot of these greedy mortgage lender crooks that bullshitted people into ARM's instead of 30 years fixed mortgages, are now refusuing to allow people to re-finance without usurious penalties. the Feds should "make them an offer they don't refuse". either drop that bullshit or get INDICTED for FRAUD in the original issuance of the loan.
 
and btw, I find it interesting that when the government offers bridge loans to American industry, the "free market" advocates squawk about "protectionism" when the Japanese, Koreans and European countries since after WWII, and recently the Chinese since the early 1990's, have been screwing the United States with their tarriffs on American manufactured good AND their governments subsidise their industries (European Airbus aircraft and the Japanese-Chinese Steel industries being prime examples).
 
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Shrimp think about it this way, if the econ is bit thick for u

If you were playing basketball against Yao Ming and I told Yao, he can attempt to guard you ,but under no circumstance is he allowed to block your shots or contest them in anyway. Would this be fair to Yao? Is this really a competitive basketall game? Are you more likely to score, because I've set up a "protectionist non-contesting shots agreement with Yao? Are your offensive skills going to greatly improve if Yao is not really competing with you defensively?

You may win the game against Yao and score a bunch of points, but when you return to your team are you any better off and have your offensive skills improved? Sure psychological aspects of winning a bsketball game against Yao may make you feel good (like having a protectionist generated job), but in the end are your skills significatly improved? Or is the country better off in any way? 
 
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and btw, I find it interesting that when the government offers bridge loans to American industry, the "free market" advocates squawk about "protectionism" when the Japanese, Koreans and European countries since after WWII, and recently the Chinese since the early 1990's, have been screwing the United States with their tarriffs on American manufactured good AND their governments subsidise their industries (European Airbus aircraft and the Japanese-Chinese Steel industries being prime examples).
[/Quote]

Your are right, lots of governments do this, and its total bullshit. I agree.   And it is exactly why they will always lag behind in growth....There is a reason we became an economic powerhouse and they didnt'.....Its quite obvious....
 
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Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:

Shrimp think about it this way, if the econ is bit thick for u

If you were playing basketball against Yao Ming and I told Yao, he can attempt to guard you ,but under no circumstance is he allowed to block your shots or contest them in anyway. Would this be fair to Yao? Is this really a competitive basketall game? Are you more likely to score, because I've set up a "protectionist non-contesting shots agreement with Yao? Are your offensive skills going to greatly improve if Yao is not really competing with you defensively?

You may win the game against Yao and score a bunch of points, but when you return to your team are you any better off and have your offensive skills improved? Sure psychological aspects of winning a bsketball game against Yao may make you feel good (like having a protectionist generated job), but in the end are your skills significatly improved? Or is the country better off in any way? 

I see your point and am thinking it overnow but I think I would still prefer the "win" over "skill sharpening".... at least when it comes to money/economics. 

Be like the LPGA not allowing male golfers.

I'm with Rink on this.  The other countries don't play fair and don't know why we have to.  Our jobs are overseas and that is causing problems.

This is an interesting topic

 

 
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Posted: #22
Quote Originally Posted by TILTOLOGIC:


Not KOAJ but, here goes...

Protectionism is bad for our country because it lowers our standard of living. We should not subsidize industries that cannot compete with the rest of the world on equal footing. 

Have you ever heard of the term "camparative advantage?" It simply states, if another country can produce a good at a lower cost, it is in their best interest for the global eonomy to produce that good and export it. On the other hand, if Americans working in the steel and auto industry cannot produce these goods at a lower cost and compete globally with these other countries, they should not be producing these goods.

 Simply put, protectionism is bad for the american economy, because it raises prices on consumers, leads to inefficiencies, and lowers the standard of living. 

 

your friggin nuts and quite honestly you dont deserve to live in this great country called America.

We will never be able to make products for the cost these other nations can make them for because they pay people slave wages to make them. 

 

 
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Do you guys believe in the "money multiplier" principle?..... A dollar spent in the USA multiplies out to 1-10 times over?
 
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Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

 

your friggin nuts and quite honestly you dont deserve to live in this great country called America.

We will never be able to make products for the cost these other nations can make them for because they pay people slave wages to make them. 

 


Leave it to the guy with a Kool-Aid Logo to dismiss the laws of economics.....You obviously and pretty uneducated, so I am not going to rip you too bad...Your post speaks for itself...You are a sad example of everything thats wrong with the left...Its called economics, its not subjective.
 
 
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Posted: #25
Quote Originally Posted by cd329:

 

your friggin nuts and quite honestly you dont deserve to live in this great country called America.

We will never be able to make products for the cost these other nations can make them for because they pay people slave wages to make them. 

 


Your problem is simple, you dream of a world that isn't even remotely close to reality....I can't wait to see you explain away the law of comparative advantage!!!!! 
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