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[Politics] Topic: Unbiased view on U.S political parties |
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Fobbyfob |
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#1 Posted: 10/15/2008 11:43:33 PM Alrite, so I'm am a Canadian Citizen. There is more news about the U.S political election than the Canadian one over here. After following U.S politics for some time, I will show you what other people might think about your political parties.
Republican Party.
*They are very hateful.
After watching some of the recent Palin rallies, that reaffirms my thoughts about this party.
They are also running a very hateful campaign that doesn't focus on the issues.
* They aren't very compassionate.
They only seem to care about their type of people. eg. Christians...
If you aren't like them then they don't give a shit about you.
* They are not truthful. They say one thing, but not the whole truth.
eg.1 They accuse the democrats of raising taxes, but that would mean they are only talking to 5% of the U.S population. They don't explain that if you make under 250k per year than your taxes will not go up a cent and might even go lower.
eg. #2 They accuse Obama of lying for saying he wasn't going to vote against funding for troops but he did it anyways afterwards. The WHOLE truth is that Mccain also voted NO but the only difference is Mccain voted NO because there was a deadline to pull out troops, and Obama voted NO because there WASN'T a deadline to remove troops from iraq.
Now on to the democrats...
# They are very smart
They don't make silly mistakes like picking a VP that has no idea what a VP does everyday.
#2 They care about the country AND of other people that may or may not have the same views as them.
It just seems like Democrats are nicer people and aren't hateful like the GOP. And thats why Obama NEEDS to win.
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newkid |
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#2 Posted: 10/15/2008 11:45:43 PM  |
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TheGoldenGoose |
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#3 Posted: 10/15/2008 11:51:38 PM
Republicans are in a state of denial right now. They can't believe a black man is going to be moving into the White House. How can you NOT believe that there is going to be voter backlash after 8 years of Bush and Cheney?
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NFLNightmares |
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#4 Posted: 10/15/2008 11:58:00 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
Republicans are in a state of denial right now. They can't believe a black man is going to be moving into the White House. How can you NOT believe that there is going to be voter backlash after 8 years of Bush and Cheney?
You think the MAJORITY of republicans are upset a "black man" is getting into the white house? That is nonsense, they are upset a liberal or a democrat is getting in. They would be just as upset or worse if hillary got in. This is not about race.
For all you can say about bush he had several minorities in power during his two terms. I disagree GG with your statement |
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TheGoldenGoose |
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#5 Posted: 10/16/2008 12:06:10 AM
NFLN: Cabinet posts are slightly different than POTUS. If you think that Southern Republicans don't care about race, you are a naive person.
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NFLNightmares |
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#6 Posted: 10/16/2008 12:14:46 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by TheGoldenGoose:
NFLN: Cabinet posts are slightly different than POTUS. If you think that Southern Republicans don't care about race, you are a naive person.
A small percentage yes. republicans as a whole absolutely not. you think the MAJORITY of republicans are racist? If you think that you are not naive, you are cynical and uninformed.
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LeRinkRat |
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#7 Posted: 10/16/2008 2:35:18 PM you think the MAJORITY of republicans are racist?
from cuts that I have seen of Palin rallies I have seen recently, they look more like RepubliKLAN meetings.  |
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MrOPC |
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#8 Posted: 10/16/2008 2:47:04 PM Fobby....
There are decent and caring men and women on both sides of the equation.
Republicans tend to want to be more involved in international matters....It was, for one, Nixon's passion..ever since he met Kruschev as Ike's VP....Reagan, a little less....Bush Sr, yes...Bush Jr...absolutely.
The Democrats are more domestic issue oriented....which is also where they get into major disagreements with Republicans because to be domestic issue oriented, you have to have a larger federal government and less states' rights.
I don't agree completely with NFL's comment.....The surrogates..be they local party leaders or religious clergy....have done a pretty good job of connecting Obama's father to Bin Laden in the eyes of the weaker, uneducated sheep....just look at that townhall meeting that McCain had last week when that grayhaired lady said that she was afraid of Obama because he was an Arab.
To me, I don't think that she read that in the National Review or even saw it on Fox News....it was a collective thought that had come together in her mind because of what the McCain campaign had been putting together.
You are seeing some of the worst that this country has to offer |
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KOAJ |
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#9 Posted: 10/16/2008 2:59:32 PM
--------------------
The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
States respectively, or to the people.
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MrOPC |
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#10 Posted: 10/16/2008 3:14:49 PM KOAJ....good to see you, hope you had Philly last night....
In 1776 or even 1876, that might have worked.....
But, as I brought up the last time we conversed.....education, for one, if left to the states can have brutal results....If left to one person, like Christine Todd Whitman, it can be disaster.
LIke I mentioned...look at Holmdel district for one example....prior to Whitman, Holmdel had become the top district in the state for Math and Science scores on SAT's (thanks in large part to the sons and daughters of ATT employees)....and some of the best scores in the nation....a program that you could be proud of.
Then Whitman did some redistricting and strong budget cutting in education...ask any teacher who was around then.....end of programs, end of scores.
On federal, state, or local levels "checks and balances" don't always work if you have a very powerful elected official...and that was CTW.
I do not believe in Socialism; but I do believe that we have grown so complex that we need more controls at higher levels so that those at lower levels have a fair shot...more and more, that is not happening....
And, yes........I absolutely do not trust the Private Sector. |
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Ap1Bfreetorun |
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#11 Posted: 10/16/2008 3:30:42 PM Fobbyfob: please let me give YOU my unbiased opinion. Well, I am somewhat biased but I am only human. As a student of politics for over 50 years this is what I believe. Nearly all politicians are liars and crooks and will cut your throat for a dime. They are for themselves first, their particular party second, the people of their state next. Then, if there is anything left over they might do something good for the people of the country. I hope that Canada is not this way. You can choose a party to support because it is favored for National Security, maybe. This economic crisis has been caused by greedy politicians not regulating greedy brokers, banks and mortgage brokers. It has been every man for himself in Washington for years. It makes a person think of becoming an Anarchist sometimes. I guess the closest thing to that is to support the messiah, I am against him. There really is no good choice. It will get worse, much worse, before it gets better. Just my opinion, I hope I am wrong. |
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MrOPC |
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#12 Posted: 10/16/2008 4:02:10 PM Ap...
There are thousands and thousands out there that buy their meds from Fobby's country because of our insurance/pharmaceutical/healthcare mess.......this cannot be a states' issue or a private sector issue; it is imperative that we develop a strong federal health program than also oversees the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.....That is a Democrat concern and has not been a Republican concern....WHO the candidate is is not as important as the party of the candidate. |
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KOAJ |
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#13 Posted: 10/16/2008 4:24:40 PM
here's the problem...the regulators are dumb and slow. private sector has the best and brightest motivated by capitalism to create superior goods and services.
if the constitution worked in 1789 and 1889 why wouldnt it work now? why is it irrelevant? maybe if the feds left a lot of issues to the states we wouldnt be in a black hole of debt on the federal level. feds are to provide a military and care for general welfare (infrastructure) and not much else...everything else is "buying votes"
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MrOPC |
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#14 Posted: 10/16/2008 4:37:17 PM KOAJ....
" motivated by capitalism "
That is exactly the problem......If you had gone on that recent duck hunting trip to England with AIG you would understand 
Seriously....enough trust of the guy who lives in Upper Saddle River and has that summer house in Mantaloking....understand?
His ability to "buy votes" because of the lack of control of Washington has put us in this situation....and you know that.
With more rigidity in Washington, his ability to manipulate becomes hampered....he still can do it on a local level...have you had your mayor thrown in jail recently?....but federal is a different kettle of fish........
As far as 1789, 1889 question....complexity.
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erikthedevil |
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#15 Posted: 10/16/2008 4:52:38 PM Canadiens are socialists, so to be honest your opinion loses a little bit to an intelligent american. This is not an opinion but fact. Many Canadien government policies are almost communist in nature especially healthcare. This is an undisputable fact so please do not argue this. We here in the states believe that free market should rule and Republicans believe in limited government interference. It is no wonder you prefer Obama because he is the socialist candidate. I am not trying to be hateful but not all people share your opinion on the style of Gov't that works best. |
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BestPlay2Day |
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#16 Posted: 10/16/2008 5:51:34 PM Fobbyfob: Not a bad summary. However, the Republicans are running more hateful campaign because they are getting their asses kicked and are desparate. You nailed the Christian thing spot on, they have George Bush in their back pocket and basically tell him what to do for 8 years. Republicans cater to the rich/upper class and big business and don't care about the middle or lower income families.
Democrats are usually for more government programs and cater to the lower income families. They look less hateful because they are way ahead and know they will win by just staying cool and focus on the issues instead of slinging mud.
However, I doubt either will keep their campaign promises especially cutting taxes and neither party in the past gave a shit about the middle class. Usually if you are rich, you vote Repubican. If you're poor, you vote Democrat. |
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ThtsGoodKnwldge |
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#17 Posted: 10/16/2008 6:08:30 PM
You sure don't sound like an "intelligent American" and you do sound hateful even if you are not trying to be. Funny you mention health care. Are you saying socialized health care in Canada isn't working? Im sure Fobbyfob could school all of us on the benefits of his country's socialized health care system...so could any European citizen. The second you wake up to the realization of the awesome job the insurance companies and the right wing have done in making Americans fear the word "socialized" you will understand why your arguement doesnt hold water. Do you believe in Social Security and Medicare? These are perfect examples that if structured and implemented properly socialization of entitlement programs actually work. Until the insurance companies, who make more money by denying care, dont have a seat at the table, we will never be able to solve the problem.
And dude, anyone preaching the glory of a free market economy right now doesn't sound too intelligent either. That's like trying to sell waterfront property during a hurricane. You're watching the walls fly off in the storm and still saying the foundation is still good.
Maybe Fobbyfob is giving the Democrats a break and painting them with an angelic brush, but his take on US politics, though simple, is pretty spot on. But you are a Republican and don't care about what other countries think.
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SoonerFan54 |
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#18 Posted: 10/16/2008 6:19:34 PM TGK - Social Security is the ultimate ponzie scheme and it only works if there are more people paying in than there are receiving benefits. It is a failure and it should be phased out. even with the latest 5% raise in benefits the average recipient only gets a few dollars over 1000 per month!! That is not a successful program.
Medicaid and Medicare don't work either. Paying doctors 30% of what the prevailing acceptable charge is one reason rates keep rising. Not that insurance companies are any better and they too are discounting payments toDocs.
We have a country that has virtually eliminated REAL poverty and created the largest middle class in the world using capitalism as our economic model. Socialism and it's cousin communism take from producers and give to non-producers and eventually, these societies collapse because the non-producers will soon outnumber the producers and the producers will soon have no incentive to continue producing.
Instead of teaching a man to fish so he can feed himself, socialism teaches you to sit on the bank watching someone else fish and then taking some of his fish for yourself.
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cd329 |
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#19 Posted: 10/16/2008 6:36:50 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by ThtsGoodKnwldge:
Erik,
You sure don't sound like an "intelligent American" and you do sound hateful even if you are not trying to be. Funny you mention health care. Are you saying socialized health care in Canada isn't working? Im sure Fobbyfob could school all of us on the benefits of his country's socialized health care system...so could any European citizen. The second you wake up to the realization of the awesome job the insurance companies and the right wing have done in making Americans fear the word "socialized" you will understand why your arguement doesnt hold water. Do you believe in Social Security and Medicare? These are perfect examples that if structured and implemented properly socialization of entitlement programs actually work. Until the insurance companies, who make more money by denying care, dont have a seat at the table, we will never be able to solve the problem.
And dude, anyone preaching the glory of a free market economy right now doesn't sound too intelligent either. That's like trying to sell waterfront property during a hurricane. You're watching the walls fly off in the storm and still saying the foundation is still good.
Maybe Fobbyfob is giving the Democrats a break and painting them with an angelic brush, but his take on US politics, though simple, is pretty spot on. But you are a Republican and don't care about what other countries think.
great post You hit the nail right on the head. The republicans have spent years telling everybody to be afraid, all the while they have been helping to line their rich buddies pockets.
Your 100 percent right about social programs working if they are managed right. Medicare is a perfct example, if the insurance companies didnt have their slimy hands in it, this program would work well.
Look at the prescription drug policy medicare part d that just came out recently. The entire thing was written by the insurance companies. That should have never happened, but these people got so much power they tell the lawmakers what to do. Its time to take govt back from all these corrupt crooks.
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cd329 |
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#20 Posted: 10/16/2008 6:40:43 PM Another example of a broken system. Why if you have an health insurance plan from your employer, should you have to be forced into medicare when you turn 65 and your regular plan becomes the secondary plan? Because the insurance companies dont want to pay anymore and instead would rather have the govt pay first. They wrote this into the law.
Just changing this one rule, could save billions of dollars. |
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SoonerFan54 |
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#21 Posted: 10/16/2008 6:51:39 PM "Do you believe in Social Security and Medicare? These are perfect examples that if structured and implemented properly socialization of entitlement programs actually work."
Thank you for telling us why socialism WON'T ever work!! Human nature isn't about working hard to give to others. Doctors aren't doctors just because they want to help people, they also are trading their services for a lifestyle expectation.
Secondly - You place faith in the altruistic benevolence of the govt. The same govt. bureaucrats that take money from the highest bidder, and block reform attempts that would harm their friends. There can never ever be a long term society that doesn't have at it's roots a work reward relationship.
Simply put - If you want food, shelter and clothing, go out and earn it by working. If you want better food, clothing and shelter, go out and earn MORE!!
If you don't want to work, then you get no food, shelter or clothing. It's all about choices, and you have the choice and the right not to work, but that means your reward is youstarve.
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NFLNightmares |
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#22 Posted: 10/16/2008 6:55:06 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Ap1Bfreetorun: Fobbyfob: please let me give YOU my unbiased opinion. Well, I am somewhat biased but I am only human. As a student of politics for over 50 years this is what I believe. Nearly all politicians are liars and crooks and will cut your throat for a dime. They are for themselves first, their particular party second, the people of their state next. Then, if there is anything left over they might do something good for the people of the country. I hope that Canada is not this way. You can choose a party to support because it is favored for National Security, maybe. This economic crisis has been caused by greedy politicians not regulating greedy brokers, banks and mortgage brokers. It has been every man for himself in Washington for years. It makes a person think of becoming an Anarchist sometimes. I guess the closest thing to that is to support the messiah, I am against him. There really is no good choice. It will get worse, much worse, before it gets better. Just my opinion, I hope I am wrong.
I take exception with your comment that " nearly all politicians are liars and crooks" I do not agree at all. However a large percentage of politicians on the national stage do sadly fit your description. The problem with politics is in order to become a truly high achiever, mayor of a major city, congressman, senator,etc etc of either party, 99% of the time you have to compromise your own views, manipulate, bend to special interests, lie etc etc. There are HUNDREDS maybe thousands of good honest politicians however they never advance past local city council jobs, small town mayors, and yes I will say it community organizer  . That was not a shot at obama everybody take a deep breath  This is the problem with politics from its core. There is a negative correlation between success and integrity. |
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ThtsGoodKnwldge |
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#23 Posted: 10/16/2008 7:19:15 PM
I gave eamples of successful govt programs, set up by democrats, that do work if the '"free market" doesnt interfere like Bush's plan to release SS into the stock market, so we can gamble with money in a program that has the freakin word "secure" in it, would have. Thank god not all republicans got on board. If they did pass that proposal, in the last two weeks we would have lost 15% of SS too. Brilliant idea...feel free to defend that one.
Your argument is typical of one who looks at a problem and thinks they can solve it by one sentence or thought...work hard, earn yours etc. Except that doesnt respond to my points and the opposite of your argument isn't what i am saying at all. Us liberals actually look at the facts and attempt to make informed decisions and the opposition just resorts to lumping any democrat as a lazy socialist...thats a lazy cop out if you ask me.
So are if/when you become sick/retired are you going to send back those medicare and SS checks? Dont bother answering because none of us believe you.
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kevk87 |
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#24 Posted: 10/16/2008 8:03:43 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by ThtsGoodKnwldge:
Erik,
You sure don't sound like an "intelligent American" and you do sound hateful even if you are not trying to be. Funny you mention health care. Are you saying socialized health care in Canada isn't working? Im sure Fobbyfob could school all of us on the benefits of his country's socialized health care system...so could any European citizen. The second you wake up to the realization of the awesome job the insurance companies and the right wing have done in making Americans fear the word "socialized" you will understand why your arguement doesnt hold water. Do you believe in Social Security and Medicare? These are perfect examples that if structured and implemented properly socialization of entitlement programs actually work. Until the insurance companies, who make more money by denying care, dont have a seat at the table, we will never be able to solve the problem.
And dude, anyone preaching the glory of a free market economy right now doesn't sound too intelligent either. That's like trying to sell waterfront property during a hurricane. You're watching the walls fly off in the storm and still saying the foundation is still good.
Maybe Fobbyfob is giving the Democrats a break and painting them with an angelic brush, but his take on US politics, though simple, is pretty spot on. But you are a Republican and don't care about what other countries think.
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jasonwhitesknee |
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#25 Posted: 10/16/2008 8:25:36 PM SoonerFan54 - you seem like a nice guy and I'm a fellow sooners fan but I have to say that of all posters on here you my polar opposite when it comes to politics.
At least you're not annoying like the Bobs |
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