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Author: [Horse Racing] Topic: Black Caviar
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#26
Posted: 2/21/2011 11:58:39 AM
USA  come and get us attitude never dies
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#27
Posted: 2/21/2011 5:27:21 PM
Cheers guys for your comments. But I must stand by my MLB comment. But as far as the horses go I see where your coming from. Not much dirt track racing around the world. So that makes it even harder I guess. By the way we have just started betting on Meadowlands Harness Racing on Thursdays and Saturdays your time. I hope im right there. Anyone we can follow for tips? Unfortuantly we are betting into smallish pools so exotics are out but might grow as time goes by. Thanks
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#28
Posted: 2/21/2011 6:46:02 PM

Just thought i would say American racing is not as highly regarded as you might think outside of America. Places like Hong Kong, England, Australia and Japan rate very highly. Dubai is a once a year highlight.

In American sprints on dirt they seem to just get out and go right from the start which would not be a tactic they could use in Aus or HK as they would finish closer to last than first. Obviously the harder dirt tracks in America allow them to run faster times which makes it much more difficult for horses to run on at the end.

Im also not sure whether it would be worth the risk of taking Black Caviar to America to race on dirt. She has worked and raced on the turf her entire career and the chance of an injury would not be worth it especially when there are races just as good if not better at home and in Hong Kong.

The most recent American horse i can remember travelling overseas to race in the UK and Australia was Cannonball and that horse was terrible except for 1 run in the mud against a very modest field. Im not totally up to date with American horses but who are the best in recent times that have travelled overseas to race?

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#29
Posted: 2/21/2011 6:50:11 PM

Black Caviar's World Ratings just keep soaring

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/ratings-glory-on-cards-for-sprint-queen-black-caviar/story-fn67siys-1226009170317 

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#30
Posted: 2/21/2011 7:00:50 PM

Also on the MLB thing i also feel a bit annoyed by it being called the "World Series". What about the Indian Premier League (cricket) they auction off the best players in the world for that but it is still only called The Indian Premier League.

I dont really care that much about it, just a little thing but as people were talking about it i thought i would too :)

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#31
Posted: 2/21/2011 7:58:23 PM

Tough to compare, but the pace early in America "appears" faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyEjyKbDN7s

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#32
Posted: 2/21/2011 10:24:10 PM

Here is a video about the World Rankings of So You Think and Black Caviar which includes the final 400m of Black Caviar in the Patinack Farm Classic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYsNQXa1o4U&feature=related

 

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#33
Posted: 2/21/2011 11:02:24 PM

I cant find a couple of her runs but here are most.

2yo Cromwell - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt6AqwT5aSc&feature=related

Blue Sapphire 2yo stakes - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz52-ngJGss&feature=related

Essendon Mazda G2 Stakes - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfGrlQcFF0c&NR=1

Schillaci G2 Stakes - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMEmiP6u8Zk&feature=related

Schweppes Stakes G2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd5mM6Wg_Ds

Patinack Farm G1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYsNQXa1o4U&feature=related

Lightning Stakes G1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6G2-IbpntY

Just for interest sake here is a couple of Hay List's runs to draw comparison:

WA Racing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PiKWy7IllU&feature=fvsr

Manikato Stakes G1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12YEjjgvrNc&feature=related

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#34
Posted: 3/8/2011 8:25:58 AM

The unbeaten champion mare Black Caviar will step out this Saturday in Australia's premium sprint handicap down the Flemigton straight. Black Caviar has been allocated top weight of 58kg in the G1 Newmarket Handicap (1200m)

Leading Australian bookmaker Sportsbet has installed Black Caviar at $1.27 with Hay List the second favourite at $13

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#35
Posted: 3/11/2011 10:47:25 PM

Unbelievable!!!

She destroyed them in Australia's premium sprint race by around 4 lengths!

Jockey Luke Nolen had her under a vice like grip with 250m to go after striding clear of her opposition. He let her go and she put 4 lengths on them in a couple of bounds.

The top weight of 58kg for the mighty mare, giving 8kg to the 2nd horse was no issue as she once again crushed her opposition.

Anyone out there willing to take her on?

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#36
Posted: 3/12/2011 8:14:11 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stockdale:

Unbelievable!!!

She destroyed them in Australia's premium sprint race by around 4 lengths!

Jockey Luke Nolen had her under a vice like grip with 250m to go after striding clear of her opposition. He let her go and she put 4 lengths on them in a couple of bounds.

The top weight of 58kg for the mighty mare, giving 8kg to the 2nd horse was no issue as she once again crushed her opposition.

Anyone out there willing to take her on?

I totally agree with the analysis of the race, she was easily dominant.

The question is though, is she willing to take anyone on?  There appears to be no real competitors in AUS.

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#37
Posted: 3/12/2011 2:45:31 PM

The Australian sprinters are some of the best in the world but she just makes them look like old hacks. Young horses like Star Witness and Crystal Lily are brilliant young horses who have won over a million and 2.5 million in prizemoney respectively each. Horses like Ortensia who was very competitive in HK being beaten 2 lengths by JJ the Jet Plane, Rocket Man and Sacred Kingdom. Eagle Falls is a good horse who raced well in Dubai with no luck. Then there is Hay List who is rated one of the best sprinters in the world and she just killed him. If Black Caviar was not around Hay List would of won all these races imo and would then be pushing for top sprinter in the world.

What i would like to see is champion Sydney mare More Joyous take her on in the 1300m race in Queensland when Black Caviar heads there

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#38
Posted: 3/12/2011 2:48:27 PM

For anyone who wants to see the Newmarket win

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjuMo8cuM9k

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#39
Posted: 3/12/2011 3:25:23 PM
There is this little thing called the "Breeders Cup" which the Aussies seem to avoid, wonder why? The horses there seem to just plod along and run for 200 yds. Yeah, I know it's a long way to ship and get beat. What kind of purses do these valiant steeds run for down under as equated to dollars?
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#40
Posted: 3/12/2011 6:23:46 PM

How many americans have come to contest the Melbourne Cup, WS Cox Plate, Newmarket Handicap or Golden Slipper???

Its a 2 way street.

You obviously have no idea if you think they just plod along then run at the end. Saturdays Newmarket was run at a hectic speed on a dead 4 track. Black Caviar won eased up in a race record time of 1.07.3 - just 0.2 seconds outside the track record. Add to that the fact when the track was renovated a few years ago times have been considerably slower than the old hard track and people thought no one would ever get near the straight track records again it is an amazing run. If she had been pushed out to run as fast as she could she would have demolished the track record.

Yes, In Australia you need to be able to have a sprint at the end otherwise you will be no chance. A classic example was when the UK champion Septimus came out to take on the Melbourne Cup and ran it along hard and was gone on the corner and only beat a handful home.

For the record we have dollars down here too and our dollars are worth slightly more than yours but you can draw easy comparison. The Melbourne Cup is worth over $6 Million, WS Cox Plate over $3 Million, Golden Slipper $3.5 Million (Richest 2yo race in the world), Doncaster Handicap $2 Million, BMW $2.25 Million, Caulfield Cup $2.5 Million, Victoria Derby $1.5 Million. Then there are many many more races worth $1 Million that i cannot be bothered listing

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#41
Posted: 3/21/2011 9:33:27 PM

Black Caviar will next step out this weekend in the G1 William Reid Stakes (1200m) at Moonee Valley.

Odds for the race:

Black Caviar $1.06

Field: $8

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#42
Posted: 3/21/2011 9:49:17 PM
Stockdale -

not looking to start a pissing contest here and no doubt your filly is a freak playing with her friends over there.  as i have said previously the BC Turf Sprint (run at 5F which in my view is incorrect should be 6 or longer) is a reasonable spot for her to settle some arguments.  she could make some noise but it would be no walk in the park there will be 5 or 6 in that 14 horse field that can show some very serious sizzle and/or close like a rocket. 

with all due respect and in my very humble opinion the G1 Breeder's Cup Sprint at 6F on dirt open to males and females would be simply overwhelming to her.  if she entered I would be absolutely shocked if she did NOT cave in at the top of the lane.  in this race there will be several guys that take no prisoners and they mean business when they show up.  it's not so much the pace (maybe 22 and 45) but the full field of classy dudes breathing down each others necks is extremely intimidating and tough for even top colts to handle.  that race is a major ballbreaker and you gotta be tough as freaking nails to survive. 

I do not believe she could hang with those guys.  if she opened up for some strange reason and skipped away from those monsters at least 2 of them would inhale her late in the final furlong. 
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#43
Posted: 3/22/2011 7:29:11 AM
Has she ever stretched out?
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#44
Posted: 3/23/2011 4:35:45 AM

You are entitled to your opinion atlasshrugged, i dont agree with anything you said but you are entitled to have an opinion. Dont take this the wrong way but America is not the pinnacle of racing so i highly doubt she will bother going there, she may but i doubt it, her main international goals are going to be Hong Kong, UK, Japan and possibly Dubai. To give me some comparison who do you believe is the best US sprinter to race overseas in recent years?

She is the number #1 rated horse in the world according to timeform ratings and she is yet to be fully extended

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#45
Posted: 3/25/2011 8:17:49 AM

...............and she wins again.

Sat 3 and 4 wide the trip while the leader had an easy time in front then just put them away in a matter of a few strides to race away. Once again eased right up to a canter on the line.

 

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#46
Posted: 3/25/2011 1:13:30 PM
MLB in the United States is BY FAR the premeire baseball leauge of the world by miles. The teams are incredibly diverse (hence the Central American, South American, and Asian influences)...that's why it is the WORLD series. Indian Criquet League? Please...BOL fellas
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#47
Posted: 3/26/2011 12:22:49 AM

Cricket is a more popular sport than baseball and the IPL (Indian Premier League) is the premier domestic 20/20 league in the world with players from all over the world being auctioned and competing including India, Australia, England, New Zealand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, South Africa, West Indies etc.

But whatever this thread is not for baseball or cricket talk its to talk about the greatest horse in the world - Black Caviar.

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#48
Posted: 3/28/2011 1:39:04 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Stockdale:

You are entitled to your opinion atlasshrugged, i dont agree with anything you said but you are entitled to have an opinion. Dont take this the wrong way but America is not the pinnacle of racing so i highly doubt she will bother going there, she may but i doubt it, her main international goals are going to be Hong Kong, UK, Japan and possibly Dubai. To give me some comparison who do you believe is the best US sprinter to race overseas in recent years?

She is the number #1 rated horse in the world according to timeform ratings and she is yet to be fully extended



Hey Stockdale maybe we should just agree to disagree

I do not have any names off the top of my head of American sprinters that have gone overseas to run in sprints on natural DIRT.  I suppose they don't feel the need to do so with multiple G1 sprints here on dirt and some on synthetic now and the BC Sprint 6F on DIRT open to males and females.  I know they have the big one in Dubai and some in Hong Kong, Singapore, England, and Japan but all on synth (for the non turf sprints) if I am correct, no?

I don't have any reason to doubt you about the TimeForm ratings I am sure you are correct.  I haven't looked at those since the BC.  Can you please post a link I am interested?  If you can link the numbers post the Dubai races that would be great.  I have a feeling a couple of those winners would pop up (not necessarily above your gal) and when Goldikova runs a couple races we have to surmise she will be prominent.

Your gal is an absolutely fabulous and outstanding thoroughbred - no doubt in my mind and if I can speak for others no doubt in their mind either.  

My point is that she would be in very deep in the BC Sprint 6F on dirt with the boys.  I am sticking to this point.  This is why I say she should come over for the BC Turf Sprint at 5F.  As I stated I don't think that would be a layup but no reason why she couldn't get it done.

Has she sprinted against males on natural dirt at 6F or longer?

If she ran in a G1 on dirt in a ten horse field (or more) with Big Drama, Smiling Tiger, and A Priority in the field a month from now on a neutral site (but it has to be natural dirt) do you think she would win?  I do not. 

"Greatest Horse in the World" well that my friend is a stretch.  Generally people would use that term for a horse that goes two turns and not only two turns but 10 furlongs or more.  Right now my choice for that would be Goldikova.  Although she only goes up to nine furlongs it is two turns and she is so freakishly and ridiculously phenomenal she deserves it.  Plus nobody else has really emerged at the Classic distances but I would also give Workforce a very strong mention as well.  
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#49
Posted: 3/28/2011 1:49:09 AM
I'll even toss MacLean's Music in that proposed field (and The Factor if need be).  just a little baby young dude with one start but it was a doozy taking a nap going 21 and change and 43 and change and winning in a hand ride at 1:07.4 on dirt.  114 Beyer and I am willing to bet that number holds up on The Sheets and Timeform. 

Even Big Drama's owners would be with the guys I mentioned in there. 
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#50
Posted: 3/28/2011 1:52:40 AM
We could also cut back Twirling Candy and Sydney's Candy if they are healthy and toss them in.  You are correct America is NOT the end all be all of thoroughbred racing but if you want to run a G1 on dirt at 6F or 7F we can fill a field with some very, very tough customers. 
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