Could Izzo out-coach Phil Jackson?

Forum: College Basketball
Author: [College Basketball] Topic: Could Izzo out-coach Phil Jackson?
David_Payne PM David_Payne
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Posted: 4/2/2010 9:20:27 AM
And is the Michigan State frontman a better coach than Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski?

Yes and maybe are my answers.

First off, I believe Coack K and Izzo are both better pure basketball coaches than Jackson. The fact of the matter is Jackson has always had the best player in the league in Jordan, Shaq and Kobe. His 10 rings suggest he has gotten the most out of that talent, even though I still don’t understand the Finals loss to the Pistons in 2004.

But in no way do I believe Jackson could match Izzo or Krzyzewski in X’s and O’s or talent evaluation.

College basketball is such a purer form of the game. Teams actually switch defenses multiple times during a game. Name a team in the NBA that’s known for its harassing zone. Name a team in the NBA that has the ability to take their opponent’s best player out of the game. Name an NBA team that has could overcome the loss of a starting point guard and still manage to reach the semifinals.

When’s the last time you saw the Lakers get an easy basket off an inbounds pass? How often do the Lakers catch an opponent off guard by going to a half-court trap?

That stuff doesn’t happen in the NBA. The players are too big, too quick and can simply overcome the fundamentals of the game with athletic ability. How good of a coach do you really need to be to call an isolation play for Kobe?

Evaluating talent is also a lot easier in the NBA than in college. In the NBA, you may have a pool of a couple hundred draftable prospects, some of which you’ve had the opportunity to put through personal workouts. In college, it feels safe to estimate that there are thousands of possible high school recruits.

In the end, being an NBA coach is much more about organizing egos and exploiting match-ups more than making actual coaching adjustments. Jackson’s very good at that part, but, to me, that’s not coaching. That’s psychology.

As far as Izzo being better than Coach K, it’s really splitting hairs. But if the two were to meet in the `championship game, I’d lean toward the Spartans and the points. Do you think Duke would be here if they lost John Scheyer?
222bad PM 222bad
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Posted: 4/2/2010 9:37:44 AM
Hope Huggins beats Coach K anyway and wouldn't mind seeing Brad Stevens either.  Time for these other coaches to be recognized and the other two be brought down off their lofty perches. Similar to Brian Gregory over Roy Williams last night. When you say great you can't forget some of the legends, Wooden, Rupp, and even Carmody.  No disrespect for either two you mentioned but when you get to the top not much difference between the top 10. BOL and interesting thread.
chilitokid PM chilitokid
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Posted: 4/2/2010 11:11:44 AM
Alot of people would question if Phil Jackson is even a good coach! How difficult could coaching really be when all you need to do is get the ball to Jordan or Kobe?
DOVJAK PM DOVJAK
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Posted: 4/2/2010 11:20:32 AM
yes he is a better coach
BergeyJ06 PM BergeyJ06
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Posted: 4/2/2010 11:59:51 AM

Phil Jackson is a better professional coach, Izzo is a better college coach its as simple as that.


Izzo's techniques would probably not be successful with professionals.  While Jackson's laid back approach would be terrible for college kids.  I mean Jackson must be doing something right.  Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq werent winning titles without Phil.

vpnyc1 PM vpnyc1
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Posted: 4/2/2010 12:26:04 PM

College coaches direct their players.

Pro coaches babysit their players.

Big difference.

hustle_man PM hustle_man
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Posted: 4/2/2010 1:52:08 PM
Different games.  If you had to make a pound for pound comparison, Coach Jackson is better.  He's had more success.

College is easier than the professional game as coaches actually get to pick the players that play for them.  Players perfect for their system.

The NBA is a lot more difficult as you have grown men that you have to manage and make them work as a team.  Jackson was able to win 10 NBA titles.  That's not easy.

As far as the college game being purer, the college game is about as bad as its been for a while due to the overall lack of talent of the younger players.

To answer your last question, Izzo is a better coach than Krzyzewski.


carl42 PM carl42
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Posted: 4/2/2010 2:57:21 PM
Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach out there.
MJ2345 PM MJ2345
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Posted: 4/2/2010 11:44:13 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by carl42:

Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach out there.



NOT!!
appleseed2010 PM appleseed2010
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Posted: 4/3/2010 12:35:05 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by carl42:

Phil Jackson is the most overrated coach out there.


Its people like these that have been screaming Duke's super overrated this year LOL. Yup 10 NBA titles and 11 after this year is just pure luck and talent. Give it a break...Everyone of you used to say Kobe was overrated and a joke until Phil turned him into legendary status.  Phil Jackson coaches at a level you'd never understand. Come on even this team, you guys cry talent now LOL. Before the Lakers NONE OF YOU took Paul Gasol and these other clowns serious. None of these other players are EVEN close to being hall a fame players!!! This Laker team looks talented because of Kobe and Phil NOT because they are talented. Every one of these players are CLOWNS anywhere else they play PERIOD
SCROG PM SCROG
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Posted: 4/3/2010 2:20:58 AM

Why was Phil given a shot with Bulls in the first place? Why was he given a shot with the lakers? Why was Jerry West ordered by Dr. Jerry Buss to draft Magic Johnson???? You're sports knowledge is worse than your research...

Addict101 PM Addict101
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Posted: 4/3/2010 2:30:35 AM
Phil Jackson was his usual genuis self calling off 3 practices during the last Laker road trip and stating Atlanta was a good party town.
Dogjimbo PM Dogjimbo
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Posted: 4/3/2010 3:26:45 AM
How stupid is this. Phil coached Jordan and Pippen.........Without them he would never won. If Phil never had Kobe and Shaq..Never WON.  NBA coaches don't coach, They Babysit!
ginder123 PM ginder123
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Posted: 4/3/2010 4:20:52 AM

Phil Jackson haters

 

At least have some subtance to what you're talking about.

Dogjimbo PM Dogjimbo
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Posted: 4/3/2010 4:49:30 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by ginder123:

Phil Jackson haters

 

At least have some subtance to what you're talking about.

Well then.. speak
carl42 PM carl42
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Posted: 4/4/2010 8:51:27 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by appleseed2010:



Its people like these that have been screaming Duke's super overrated this year LOL. Yup 10 NBA titles and 11 after this year is just pure luck and talent. Give it a break...Everyone of you used to say Kobe was overrated and a joke until Phil turned him into legendary status.  Phil Jackson coaches at a level you'd never understand. Come on even this team, you guys cry talent now LOL. Before the Lakers NONE OF YOU took Paul Gasol and these other clowns serious. None of these other players are EVEN close to being hall a fame players!!! This Laker team looks talented because of Kobe and Phil NOT because they are talented. Every one of these players are CLOWNS anywhere else they play PERIOD

What a moronic ramble from someone who knows nothing about coaching. Coach K (who I don't care for) CAN coach. How many titles did the over rated Jackson win when MJ left? Kobe (Dr Kobe Therapist) won one finally without Shaq. So one ring by Phil's coaching. Man he sure is good.

BergeyJ06 PM BergeyJ06
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Posted: 4/4/2010 1:41:15 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by carl42:

What a moronic ramble from someone who knows nothing about coaching. Coach K (who I don't care for) CAN coach. How many titles did the over rated Jackson win when MJ left? Kobe (Dr Kobe Therapist) won one finally without Shaq. So one ring by Phil's coaching. Man he sure is good.


You do realize that MJ, Kobe, and Shaq have won a combined 0 titles without Phil Jackson as their coach right?

MJ had never made it out of the conference finals until Phil came around.  When Phil Jackson left the Lakers sucked now that he is back the Lakers are title contenders every year again.  Calling Phil Jackson over rated is one of the stupidest comments Ive ever heard on this forum which is saying a lot.  For that congratulations.

BergeyJ06 PM BergeyJ06
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Posted: 4/4/2010 1:42:42 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BergeyJ06:


You do realize that MJ, Kobe, and Shaq have won a combined 0 titles without Phil Jackson as their coach right?

MJ had never made it out of the conference finals until Phil came around.  When Phil Jackson left the Lakers sucked now that he is back the Lakers are title contenders every year again.  Calling Phil Jackson over rated is one of the stupidest comments Ive ever heard on this forum which is saying a lot.  For that congratulations.


I take it back.  shaq did win one with the Heat.  So the correct answer should be them 3 great players have won a combined 1 title without Phil Jackson as their coach.

carl42 PM carl42
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Posted: 4/5/2010 1:00:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BergeyJ06:


I take it back.  shaq did win one with the Heat.  So the correct answer should be them 3 great players have won a combined 1 title without Phil Jackson as their coach.

Drink some more of your kool aid.

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