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[General Discussion] Topic: Proof that there is no god. |
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HutchEmAll |
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#426 Posted: 7/19/2012 3:49:43 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Which is why I do credit Rostos for at least trying lol
I at least respect Rostos's arguments.
SJD is just a spewer of Bible text and really never gets into the crux of the issues. |
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SirJohnDrake |
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#427 Posted: 7/19/2012 4:10:05 PM Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose.
Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do.
The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!
Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual
Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.
Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
That someone who intentionally constructed it... is guess who?...God Almighty the Creator! 
If any of you said it was stardust, comets, rocks or other lifeless, non living matter floating around in the universe...well you are wrong!
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#428 Posted: 7/19/2012 4:32:03 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:
Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose.
Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do.
The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!
Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual
Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.
Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
That someone who intentionally constructed it... is guess who?...God Almighty the Creator!
If any of you said it was stardust, comets, rocks or other lifeless, non living matter floating around in the universe...well you are wrong!
WOW! THAT IS AMAZING!!!!  |
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#429 Posted: 7/19/2012 4:45:36 PM
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#430 Posted: 7/19/2012 6:05:39 PM Quote Posted by Randi:
How much editing was done to make the text understandable and make sense in English?
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There is absolutely no evidence that the Bible has been revised, edited, or tampered with in any systematic manner.
The sheer volume of biblical manuscripts makes it simple to recognize any attempts to distort God’s Word. There is no major doctrine of the Bible that is put in doubt as a result of the minor differences that exist between manuscripts.
Again, the question, can we trust the Bible? Absolutely! God has preserved His Word despite the unintentional failings and intentional attacks of human beings.
We can have utmost confidence that the Bible we have today is the same Bible that was originally written. The Bible is God’s Word, and we can trust it (2 Timothy 3:16; Matthew 5:18)
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#431 Posted: 7/19/2012 6:24:00 PM Quote Posted by RJS:
I believe in Santa Claus - can you prove he doesn't exist?
I talk to him regularly - especially around X-mass.
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Who cares?...I certainly don't care if you believe in santa or the tooth fairy for that matter.
Go right ahead...believe me I won't want any proof of their existence or non-existence.
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#432 Posted: 7/19/2012 7:30:30 PM
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#433 Posted: 7/19/2012 7:41:45 PM Lets get to the crux of the matter.
People here want proof of Gods existence. So unless they have 100% proof , they wont believe....ok....
1 year ago, i ate an apple for lunch. Can i prove this? No i cant prove this. Does this mean i actually didnt eat an apple for lunch? Therefore, because i cant prove it, i must not have eaten it. apparently i must have "imagined it". Theirs the Atheist fav word.
Now, the atheist is going to say, well, based on deductive reasoning and they have seen people eat apples in the past, then they will BELIEVE me when i say i ate the apple.
But hang on, dont i need 100% proof for you to believe i ate the apple, otherwise, you wont believe?
What is happening here is, the game keeos on getting changed by the atheists,the standard of evidence is changing based on different circumstances.
If Kittykatz, system and co are intellectually consistent, they wont believe me that i ate the apple.
What they are doing is, from going to a stance of requiring 100% proof of Gods existence, to lowering the bar to likelihoods and probabilities of believing something.
If you can lower your standard of evidence required and accept my word that i ate the apple for lunch, based on deductive reasoning, then why cant you do exactly the same with God BASED on the same same deductive reasoning process as you do for everything else? ie, look around you, universe came into existence from nothing, life came from non life, complexity of cells, historicity of Christ etc etc....Why are atheists contradicting themselves when on one hand they want 100% proof to believe something, yet , with most things in their lives, dont need 100% proof to believe, but this changes with God...
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#434 Posted: 7/19/2012 7:56:02 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Rostos: Lets get to the crux of the matter.
People here want proof of Gods existence. So unless they have 100% proof , they wont believe....ok....
1 year ago, i ate an apple for lunch. Can i prove this? No i cant prove this. Does this mean i actually didnt eat an apple for lunch? Therefore, because i cant prove it, i must not have eaten it. apparently i must have "imagined it". Theirs the Atheist fav word.
Now, the atheist is going to say, well, based on deductive reasoning and they have seen people eat apples in the past, then they will BELIEVE me when i say i ate the apple.
But hang on, dont i need 100% proof for you to believe i ate the apple, otherwise, you wont believe?
What is happening here is, the game keeos on getting changed by the atheists,the standard of evidence is changing based on different circumstances.
If Kittykatz, system and co are intellectually consistent, they wont believe me that i ate the apple.
What they are doing is, from going to a stance of requiring 100% proof of Gods existence, to lowering the bar to likelihoods and probabilities of believing something.
If you can lower your standard of evidence required and accept my word that i ate the apple for lunch, based on deductive reasoning, then why cant you do exactly the same with God BASED on the same same deductive reasoning process as you do for everything else? ie, look around you, universe came into existence from nothing, life came from non life, complexity of cells, historicity of Christ etc etc....Why are atheists contradicting themselves when on one hand they want 100% proof to believe something, yet , with most things in their lives, dont need 100% proof to believe, but this changes with God...
Surely you cannot compare the magnitude of the claim that you ate an apple once to the claim that a being exists that supersedes the laws of physics.
The difference is the claim that you ate an apple, just like the claim that everything came from nonlife, as you say, does not violate the laws of physics. God violates the laws of physics and the truth of his existence would have an impact of universal importance. If we found out that the atheists were 100% right, then nothing would change, the universe would simply carry on as it has been (obviously all religion would be eliminated, but im talking about the implications of a fact). The implications of a being existing that can transcend the laws of physics would mean that the laws of physics can be transcended and that opens up a whole new can of worms.
The burden proof, or, rather, the threshold required can change based on the significance of the claim. That is why I will take your word for it that you ate an apple a year ago, but I will demand conclusive evidence when you claim that a being exists that transcends the laws of physics. |
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#435 Posted: 7/19/2012 8:15:29 PM Rostos, great post
Its useless to convince the non believers because most non believers need to be told what to believe in life. If some human scientist tells them God doesnt exist, then they believe him.
All they keep rattling off is the law of physics, but they have zero proof the law of physics wasnt created by God
I dont believe God exists because anybody told me to believe that, i believe he exists because thats what my own mind and heart tell me.
I will never force my beliefs on anybody, its up to each person to find their own way. The non believers want to believe everything came from 1 cell, thats their choice. |
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KittyKatz286 |
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#436 Posted: 7/19/2012 8:33:25 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329: Rostos, great post
Its useless to convince the non believers because most non believers need to be told what to believe in life. If some human scientist tells them God doesnt exist, then they believe him.
All they keep rattling off is the law of physics, but they have zero proof the law of physics wasnt created by God
I dont believe God exists because anybody told me to believe that, i believe he exists because thats what my own mind and heart tell me.
I will never force my beliefs on anybody, its up to each person to find their own way. The non believers want to believe everything came from 1 cell, thats their choice.
False. |
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#437 Posted: 7/19/2012 8:36:24 PM Sorry kitty, but unlike you am not brain washed by anybody into believing anything.
I told you how i formed my opinion of why i think God or somebody created everything. If you dont want to believe that, i really dont give a garbage |
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#438 Posted: 7/19/2012 8:42:23 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
Surely you cannot compare the magnitude of the claim that you ate an apple once to the claim that a being exists that supersedes the laws of physics.
Thats not the issue. The issue here is that you people have changed your stance from being in a position where you need 100% evidence for something, then when something else is brought in front of you, it gets lowered and you base your belief on something that is less than 100%, ie, something that cannot be proved. This is not intellectually consistent.
The difference is the claim that you ate an apple, just like the claim that everything came from nonlife, as you say, does not violate the laws of physics. God violates the laws of physics and the truth of his existence would have an impact of universal importance. If we found out that the atheists were 100% right, then nothing would change, the universe would simply carry on as it has been (obviously all religion would be eliminated, but im talking about the implications of a fact). The implications of a being existing that can transcend the laws of physics would mean that the laws of physics can be transcended and that opens up a whole new can of worms.
A couple of things. Atheists will NEVER find out if they are right. They will only find out when they are wrong. Also, we provide very very solid arguments, ie, origins of the universe, ontological argument, historicity of Christ etc, when we provide these arguments, you throw them down the drain without assesing these and straight away demand 100% proof, thats exactly what system does. On one hand, you people in your every day life believe things without 100% evidence and make a judgement based on deductive reasoning, ie, arguments. Them when we look at the arguents for God, you and especially system throw this process humans use everyday in their lives down the bin and want 100% evidence. It is contradictory and not intelelctually consistent and is dishonest.
The burden proof, or, rather, the threshold required can change based on the significance of the claim. That is why I will take your word for it that you ate an apple a year ago, but I will demand conclusive evidence when you claim that a being exists that transcends the laws of physics.
But you are changing the game here , ie, shifting the goal posts...You are prepared to believe in something without evidence, ie, the apple, but you wont believe in God without 100% evidence. Again, it is not consistent. |
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#439 Posted: 7/19/2012 8:52:46 PM Here are a few examples.
The theory of Evolution is not 100% full proof. Their are many gaps in evolutionary theory.
I recently (last night actually) heard a professor in bio-chemistry and evolutionary sciences say consider evolution as a jig saw puzzle....With only about 30% of the pieces of the puzzle together (scattered)....What scientists do and have done , is gone to the manufacturer and get the missing pices in the puzzle made to fit the puzzle.........
This is argument is not about wether evolution is true or not, rather, is a perfecr example of how atheists believe in something where the evidence is certainly less than 100% and instead base their beliefs on deductive reasoning.
And the theory of evolution is certainly an extra ordinary event all the way back to the creation of life.
All what i am doing here is exposing how you guys are inconsistent with the process you guys use for beliving things.
On one hand you want 100% proof of God, yet in facets of your lives, you dont use this standard, especially with the the theory of evolution which is certainly less than 100% proven.... |
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#440 Posted: 7/19/2012 8:56:51 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329: Sorry kitty, but unlike you am not brain washed by anybody into believing anything.
I told you how i formed my opinion of why i think God or somebody created everything. If you dont want to believe that, i really dont give a garbage
Scientists can explain their theories without resorting to magic. That is why I choose to believe them and not in magic.
Rostos - I am looking for direct evidence of a being that can transcend the laws of physics. What I am asking is for something to occur in my lifetime where the only conceivable explanation is something beyond this world. I hope this adequately explains why I will accept at face value that you ate an apple and not that god exists. |
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#441 Posted: 7/19/2012 8:58:39 PM |
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#442 Posted: 7/19/2012 9:03:31 PM Well kitty good luck with that, like i said if everybody knew God existed with 100 percent proof, there would be zero reason for even bothering to create the world. He doesnt want us to believe because we are afraid of him, because thats what with 100 percent certainty would happen. This is what you cant seem to grasp and will only believe if he shows himself to you. If that happened, you would never do anything wrong again in your life, because you would be afraid of what God could do to you and that my friend isnt what God wants.
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#443 Posted: 7/19/2012 9:04:40 PM Also Kitty, i keep asking for it, but so far none of you have provided it.
What proof does science tell you that God doesnt exist? |
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#444 Posted: 7/19/2012 9:09:16 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329: Also Kitty, i keep asking for it, but so far none of you have provided it.
What proof does science tell you that God doesnt exist?
I don't need to prove anything to you. The natural position is that god doesn't exist. |
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#445 Posted: 7/19/2012 9:11:21 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329: Well kitty good luck with that, like i said if everybody knew God existed with 100 percent proof, there would be zero reason for even bothering to create the world. He doesnt want us to believe because we are afraid of him, because thats what with 100 percent certainty would happen. This is what you cant seem to grasp and will only believe if he shows himself to you. If that happened, you would never do anything wrong again in your life, because you would be afraid of what God could do to you and that my friend isnt what God wants.
To me, there is no logical reason as to why a supreme being would give a garbage. Why create a universe? Why create it over 13.7 billion years? Why wait so long to create intelligent beings on Earth? Why wait so long after creating these intelligent beings to let them know about you? There are so many things that make absolutely no sense (besides the obvious - that this is magic like harry potter style magic). It seems so incredibly implausible that I would have to be a complete fool to believe it. |
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#446 Posted: 7/19/2012 10:16:44 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329: Also Kitty, i keep asking for it, but so far none of you have provided it.
What proof does science tell you that God doesnt exist?
we can't give you proof for the same reason that you can't give me proof that their isn't a little invisible man living on my shoulder?  and you shouldn't have to...
I love how you have no response for this...
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#447 Posted: 7/19/2012 10:22:22 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by cd329:
Well kitty good luck with that, like i said if everybody knew God existed with 100 percent proof, there would be zero reason for even bothering to create the world. So, that is the reason this "god" created the earth? To test us
He doesnt want us to believe because we are afraid of him, because thats what with 100 percent certainty would happen. Why is it so important to this "god" for us to believe in it Why all the games This is what you cant seem to grasp and will only believe if he shows himself to you. If that happened, you would never do anything wrong again in your life, because you would be afraid of what God could do to you and that my friend isnt what God wants.
Not knowing for sure is the only reason you don't do bad things
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#448 Posted: 7/19/2012 11:32:12 PM System, I dont have the answers, you ask him if you ever get to meet him,her or it.
Until bozos like you can show me proof God doesnt exist, i choose to believe that he does exist. And truthfully i dont give a damn if you dont believe, am not gonna lose 1 minute of sleep tonight.
So show me the proof and not a bunch of man made bullshit that soem scientist tells you.
All you non believers keep babbling out of your mouths is, the believers have to show you proof he exists.
Heres the thing, we dont need to show you anything, now get lost |
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#449 Posted: 7/19/2012 11:43:24 PM Has anybody seen that skeptic crrecords?
Hey buddy got anymore verses in the bible that is too puzzling for you to interpret?
You know who to come to and ask for the right interpretation.
Don't feel bad because a lot of atheists like yourself who are not familiar with the bible have problems interpreting certain verses correctly.
It can be tricky if you just randomly pickout verses here and there without reading the entire book and in some cases previous books prior to the one you're reading.
But hey I'm here if you need help.
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#450 Posted: 7/19/2012 11:47:03 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by KittyKatz286:
The theory of evolution obeys the laws of physic and we know for certain that evolution exists (it has been observed). Thus, presuming that evolution is what led us to where we are today seems much more plausible than magic.
And the universe coming into existence uncaused is not magic?
Life coming from non life is not magic?
Amazing how a camel cannot see its own hump....
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