Messages

Forum Index : General Discussion : Messages Page 2 of 3  1 2 3  
Author: [General Discussion] Topic: JFK Assassination
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#26
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:26:12 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by canovsp:

Even though the show was an hour long the only thing they really concentrated on was the fatal head shot. 

The title of the show was "JFK: Inside the Target Car." I don't know when it comes on again but if you haven't seen it I recommend it.


2008

This kind of computer analysis has only been available for about five years,

While blood spatter analysis existed in the 1960s, modern innovations have greatly improved its accuracy and the amount of information that can be gleaned from drops of blood.

A mock-up of the Dallas, Texas crime scene was set up, including the depository, the "grassy knoll," and other nearby landmarks. Artificial surrogates of Kennedy were placed in a car. Sharpshooters then shot the surrogates from the model depository, the grassy knoll, and four other plausible locations.
Schliebe, along with Tom Bevel, an independent expert forensic investigator, were brought in to examine the simulated crime scene. Both scientists had no idea what the experiment was for or that it was a reenactment of the JFK assassination.

 The two experts found a simulated gunshot would to the head that closely matched the wound Kennedy suffered. Most of the simulated body material had spattered forward into the car, consistent with a shot that entered the back of the head and exited toward the front. There was some back-spatter -- material that flew back in the opposite direction of the bullet's trajectory -- but not much.
The general lack of back spatter and the preponderance of spatter in another direction are two of the clues, among others, that the investigators used to pinpoint the origin of the shots.
"After Tom and I looked at the scene, we pointed up and back away from the vehicle," said Schliebe. "Apparently that lined up perfectly with where the sharpshooter had hit the model head."
Along with advances in blood spatter analysis, another advantage modern forensic experts have is simulated body parts.
The team used some of the most advanced artificial human heads in the world for the ballistic tests. Made from a proprietary mixture by Australia-based Adelaide T&E Systems, the heads have three different materials which simulate the brain, skull and external soft tissue (skin) -- that together respond to the trauma the same way a human head would.
The simulated brain material was made from a pig-skin-derived gelatin, dyed green. The skull surrogate is made from a special vinyl ester resin filled with calcium and proprietary fibers. The artificial skin uses a polyurethane and plasticizers to mimic human skin's physical properties. The head was even custom-fitted, based on Kennedy's hat size.
"The heads they used were quite interesting," said Bevel. "They were considerably more sophisticated than anything I've seen before."
In addition to the physical environment, a virtual environment was also set up. A team from Los Angeles-based Creative Differences went to the original Dallas crime scene and took precise measurements of all the angles, distances, wind speed and directions, etc., in the area to create a 3-D model of the crime scene.
To animate it, the team looked at a video of the assassination filmed by Abraham Zapruder. The Zapruder film, as it's called, is generally believed to be the most complete video of the shooting because of its clear view of the motorcade and the height it was shot from.
Only two of the 486 Zapruder frames actually show Kennedy being shot. Computer graphics expert Doug Martin highlighted the red parts of the frames and the blood resulting from the wound, and plotted them onto the computer simulation to see where the fatal shot came from.


quote
PokinSmot send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
PokinSmot
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6348
Location: United States
#27
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:27:04 AM



let's see who had to gain from his death




quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#28
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:27:34 AM
Thank Ruby for giving Oswald the most painful of deaths, that no state executioner would have been able to do. Oswald moaned and moaned in agony until he lost conciousness, he was aware of the shot and knew he would die from that moment. Kennedy probably never had any time to be aware or to suffer.
quote
PokinSmot send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
PokinSmot
Participation Meter
Captain
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6348
Location: United States
#29
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:28:52 AM

so JFK was speaking out against...
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#30
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:30:41 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

The real key in the JFK mystery is whether you believe a bullet could enter the back of a human, exit the throat, enter and exit the shoulder, enter and exit the wrist, and land undamaged.

If you do, then you can argue that there was one shooter.

____________

Read "Case Closed" by Posner.  It's the best, most complete comprehensive examination of the whole thing.  Answered all my questions.  Forensically fascinating, but it goes well beyond that in its examination of everything surrounding what happened.  





Remarkably, as late as 2004, Posner wrote that "it would take nearly 30 years [by Failure Analysis, as reported by Posner in his book in 1993) for science to establish the [single-bullet) theory as fact" (Los Angles Times, August 29, 2004, p.R5). But the Warren Commission clearly established the single-bullet theory by testimony of scientists back in 1964, and the HSCA did likewise with scientists in 1978. Actually, science never required, as Posner suggests. Only common sense. A bullet passing through soft issue in Kennedy's body and then exiting the body had nowhere else to go but to Governor Connally's body, which was in perfect alignment with Kennedy's body to be hit by the exiting bullet. No more than ten seconds of reflection is necessary to know this.

quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#31
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:31:30 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

The real key in the JFK mystery is whether you believe a bullet could enter the back of a human, exit the throat, enter and exit the shoulder, enter and exit the wrist, and land undamaged.

If you do, then you can argue that there was one shooter.

____________

Read "Case Closed" by Posner.  It's the best, most complete comprehensive examination of the whole thing.  Answered all my questions.  Forensically fascinating, but it goes well beyond that in its examination of everything surrounding what happened.  





Gerald Posner, in Case Closed, does much better than Moore, but again, his book can not

be considered an anti-conspiracy book (except in the sense of maintaining through out, as Posner's and !vIoore's books and several others do, that Oswald killed Kenneds and had no confederates, and seeking to show the fallacy of many contentions made by the conspiracy community). Posner devotes only approximately 50 pages of his 607-page book (again, I may be off by a few pages) to refuting the various conspiracy theories. But at least half of those pages are spent on rebutting New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison's charges; Posner does not address and try to disprove the theories of military-industrial complex, or anti-Castro Cuban exile involvement in the assatination and though he makes several passing references to the CIA ("CIA domestic spying," received information," etc.), I could not collectively find more than two or three full pages in his entire book, if that, where it could inferentially be said he was attacking one of very most important allegations of all, that of CIA complicity in the assassination.Devoting approximately 8 percent of one's book, as Posner does, to presenting evidence arguments to refute the many conspiracy theories in the murder of John F Kennedy

would not seem to qualify it as an anti-conspiracy book.

Bugliosi



quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#32
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:33:45 AM
After over 40 years of the most prodigiously intensive investigation and examination of a murder case in world history, certain powerful facts exist which cannot be challenged:

No other weapon other than Oswalds Mannlicher-Carcano rifle has ever been found and linked in any way to the assassination.

Not one bullet other than the 3 fired from Oswalds rifle has ever been linked to the assassination

No person other than Oswald has ever been connected by evidence, in any way, to the assassination.

No evidence has ever surfaced linking Oswald to any of the major groups suggested by conspiracy theoristsof being behind the assassination.

No evidence has ever been found showing that any person or group framed Oswald for the murder they commited.
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#33
Posted: 2/22/2012 2:35:02 AM

Volume 11 of the vVarren Commission. U.S. Marine Corps Major Eugene D. Anderson tes tified that!\1arine Corps records show that on December 21,1956, Oswald fired a 212 on the range with his M-I rifle, making him a sharpshooter.

Even on May 6, 1959, when Oswald was about to leave the Marine Corps, and hence, wouldn't have had any incentive to fire well, he fired a 191, qualifing him as a "marksman" with the M-I rifle.

quote
canovsp
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
canovsp
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4793
Location: United States
#34
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:13:14 AM
Hell. I didn't think about YouTube. It's there to see.
quote
dl36 send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com |
dl36
Participation Meter
Hall of Fame
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 23571
Location: United States
#35
Posted: 2/22/2012 5:10:29 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by canovsp:


The dude in Arizona was insane. Insanity is the same reason Jeffrey Dahmer killed those people and ate their body parts.

We can speculate for hours why JFK was killed: Oswald was a Communist, Oswald was a patsy, the mafia had it in for him and RFK, the Pentagon wanted war with Vietnam, the CIA thought he was soft because of the Bay of Pigs. We may never know.


I am not disagreeing that the arizona shooter was insane... but often people's worldview that has them do things like this actually makes sense to them in their own mind and with enough justification anything is game...

I am not an expert on dahmer, but it is my understanding that serial killers get pleasure from doing something they know is wrong... so they take precautions not to get caught so they can try to repeat the action as much as possible and then the compulsion kicks in and they can no longer stop themselves in controlling their impulses. 

Shooters of politicians like in the arizona shooting actually believe they are on the right...  because in what they believe, it makes sense to to engage in the shooting...

what is dangerous about really insane/crazy people is that their brain does not function correctly so you are often looking for a set of symptoms...

one is concrete thinking... They are not able to understand metaphors or abstract concepts... as concrete thinkers they take everything literally...  So if someone convince him in his world view that shooting a politician was correct they would do it willingly thinking they are being a true american hero...  If they were to see an image of a politician in the cross-hairs of a bullseye they would not be able to distinguish it as being about elections instead of the message from god for a green light to take a shot...

so when people talk crazy, sane people are able to distinguish them as crazy and ignore it...

but when people talk crazy to crazy/insane people who are not able to distinguish it as crazy and in fact is closer to the language of their brain then sane people, you have a problem... and you have a shooter...
quote
canovsp
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
canovsp
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4793
Location: United States
#36
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:19:16 AM
The reason I compared Dahmer to Loughner is because I think both are/were the clinical definition of insane. I don't think Oswald was. Oswald may or may not have been by the lone gunman but he wasn't insane.
quote
STARKS 3
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
STARKS 3
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1146
Location: North Carolina
#37
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:43:51 AM
Secret Service Standdown
quote
STARKS 3
RSI Wagerline RSI Rating
send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
STARKS 3
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1146
Location: North Carolina
#38
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:44:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8
quote
HutchEmAll send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
HutchEmAll
Participation Meter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 37709
Location: Minnesota
#39
Posted: 2/22/2012 11:57:33 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BMA:




recommend

Reclaiming History

The Assassination Of President John F.Kennedy

author  Vincent Bugliosi




Sounds like this guy has his detractors as well:

http://www.reclaiminghistory.org/

I think dj makes a good point.  Most of these books tend to be an attempt to convince people of something rather than an attempt to find the truth.  

As with 9/11, many of the "facts" still seem to be disputed.  
quote
dytide send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
dytide
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2956
Location: California
#40
Posted: 2/22/2012 1:21:08 PM

magic bullet

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKxCFN8ZLlw

quote
666LES send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: BetDSI |
666LES
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2311
Location: New York
#41
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:38:30 PM

According to Crossfire by JimMarrs no one can place LHO on the 6th floor of Book Depos. BUT there are several witnesses including police who stopped him in 1st floor cafeteria within a minute of shoots being fired and he was drinking a coke. With no elevator,I know that after I change history I want to run down 6 flights and get the pause that refreshes.

This tv doc sounds like the rush to judgement that the networks/newspapers gave after the warren comm. delivered a stillborn.

Crossfire by Jim Marrs  book upon which OliverStone based his movie JFK.

 

CLUE

I say  The Vice President in Daley Square with a CIA hit squad.

quote
666LES send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: BetDSI |
666LES
Participation Meter
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2311
Location: New York
#42
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:42:48 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BMA:

After over 40 years of the most prodigiously intensive investigation and examination of a murder case in world history, certain powerful facts exist which cannot be challenged:

No other weapon other than Oswalds Mannlicher-Carcano rifle has ever been found and linked in any way to the assassination.

Not one bullet other than the 3 fired from Oswalds rifle has ever been linked to the assassination

No person other than Oswald has ever been connected by evidence, in any way, to the assassination.

No evidence has ever surfaced linking Oswald to any of the major groups suggested by conspiracy theoristsof being behind the assassination.

No evidence has ever been found showing that any person or group framed Oswald for the murder they commited.
There has and there are such persons/evidence and they are legion.
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#43
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:49:38 PM

So we know, not just beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond all doubt, that Oswald's rifle was the murder weapon, the weapon that fired the bullets that struck down the thirty-fifth president of the United States. If there were no other evidence against Oswald, the fact that the murder weapon belonged to him, and that there was no evidence or even likelihood that anyone else had come into possession of the weapon, would be devastating evidence of his guilt.
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#44
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:50:44 PM
A large brown handmade bag of wrapping paper and tape of the appropriate size to contain Oswald's disassembled Carcano rifle, undoubtedly the bag Wesley Frazier saw Oswald carry into the Book Depository Building on the morning of the assassination, was found inside the sniper's nest on the sixth floor close to the three cartridge cases ejected from Oswald's rifle. Oswald's left index finger print and right palm print were found on the bag.
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#45
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:51:12 PM

Oswald's left palm print and right index fingerprint were found on top of a book carton next to the windowsill of the south easternmost window on the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building. The carton appeared to have been arranged as a convenient gun rest. Both prints were pointing in a south westerly direction, the same direction the presidential limousine was proceeding down Elm Street. A print of his right palm was found on top of the north west corner of another carton just to the rear of the gun-rest carton.
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#46
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:52:00 PM
So we know that not only was Oswald the owner and possessor of the rifle that killed Kennedy. but he was also the owner and possessor of the revolver that killed Tippit. In a city of more than 700,000 people, what is the probability of one of them being the owner and possessor of the weapons that murdered both Kennedy and Tippit, and yet still be innocent of both murders? Aren't we talking about DNA numbers here, like one out of several billion or trillion? Is there a mathematician in the house?
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#47
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:53:42 PM

A Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, serial number C2766, was found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository Building shortly after the shooting in Dealey Plaza. Handwriting experts determined that the writing on the purchase order and money order for the rifle was Oswald's. And the seller shipped the rifle to Oswald's post office box in Dallas. So Oswald owned the Carcano. Also, photographs taken by Oswald's wife, Marina, in April of 1963 show Oswald holding the Carcano, and Oswald's right palm print was found on the underside of the rifle barrel following the assassination." So we know that Oswald not only owned but possessed the subject rifle.
quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#48
Posted: 2/22/2012 3:55:37 PM

Within a few hours of the assassination, virtually all of Dallas law enforcement already knew Oswald had murdered Kennedy.




Indeed, it was obvious to nearly everyone, not just law enforcement.




At 4:45 p.m. on the day of the assassination ,NBC network news anchorman Bill Ryan reported that "all circumstantial evidence points to the guilt of the suspect Lee Oswald. "




Exactly what happened was that obvious within hours of the shooting.
quote
joshbeeboo2 send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
joshbeeboo2
Participation Meter
Prospect
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 131
Location:
#49
Posted: 2/22/2012 4:01:48 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by BMA:

After over 40 years of the most prodigiously intensive investigation and examination of a murder case in world history, certain powerful facts exist which cannot be challenged:

No other weapon other than Oswalds Mannlicher-Carcano rifle has ever been found and linked in any way to the assassination.

Not one bullet other than the 3 fired from Oswalds rifle has ever been linked to the assassination

No person other than Oswald has ever been connected by evidence, in any way, to the assassination.

No evidence has ever surfaced linking Oswald to any of the major groups suggested by conspiracy theoristsof being behind the assassination.

No evidence has ever been found showing that any person or group framed Oswald for the murder they commited.



there was a german woman, daughter of a german cruiser captain.the cruiser was in havana when she was 17, right when the revolution happened.castro impregnated her but forced her to abort.later on she worked a lot for the cia and they ordered her to kill castro, but once back in cuba she didnt do it.she also worked for that anti castro 'group 40' for the cia, they blew pro castro stuff up left and right in the USA.that woman always has always claimed (in several court cases and interviews) that the night before the assassination there was a weapon transport to dallas and there it was where she saw oswald with cia agents and members of the mafia.
she had worked earlier together with oswald.

its been 20 years or so since i have watched the JFK movie, the woman and her people might be in the new orleans chapter, duno.

*seeks wiki link about the woman...*
..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marita_Lorenz

quote
BMA send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
BMA
Participation Meter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 13782
Location:
#50
Posted: 2/22/2012 4:04:04 PM

Since Oswald knew he had killed Kennedy with that Carcano rifle, he knew he had no choice but to deny that the rifle was his. (It's interesting to note that although Oswald himself knew the obvious,


that ownership of the murder weapon was tantamount to identifying himself as Kennedy's killer, his countless defenders in the conspiracy community apparently do not realize this.)



When Oswald was shown a backyard photograph of himself holding the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, he lied and said it was not he holding the rifle, that someone had superimposed his face on someone else's body.



He also lied when he said he had never seen the photograph before, even though handwriting experts concluded it was Oswald's handwriting on the back of a copy of the photograph that was found among the personal effects of a friend of Oswald's who later died.


quote
Forum Index : General Discussion : Messages Page 2 of 3  1 2 3  
You have entered the forum as a GUEST. 
You must login/register to post or reply.