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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: Children Or No children?
minion0812 send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook | My Sportsbook: Sports Interaction |
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#51
Posted: 1/19/2012 1:22:29 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by vancleaveb:

Minion,

You have gotten great advice here.  Now you just have to make up your mind in what you want.  Despite what others have said, you should keep your woman involved in your thinking/decisions.  You obviously love her and you should make this decision as a team. 

I'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know...or that others haven't already posted.

But I was in your  situation a couple years ago.  Slightly different because we were married, but the same principles.  We had dated for 5 years before we got married and had obviously discussed children.  We were both on board for having a couple, but only after we spent some more quality time together.

A year or two into the marriage, we started to both wonder whether we wanted kids or not.  We were having a ton of fun together, and we knew that things would change dramatically once we had the added responsibility of a child (or two).  We debated whether to have one for the next couple years.  About two years ago, we decided to let fate happen...if she got pregnant, awesome....if not, no biggie.  Of course, she soon after got pregnant....and nine months later we had a baby boy.

I knew things would change, but I didn't expect them to change, FOR THE BETTER.  Like others have said...you don't realize you could love ANYONE as much as you love your own child.  The joy and satisfaction in watching your child grow (hes only 9.5 months now) is incomparable.  I'm a selfish person by nature...but he has changed all that.  And to be honest, while things have changed with my wife and I....that too, was a change for the better.  Our teamwork in raising Nathan has just brought us that much closer together.  And while we have some limitations to what we do...it hasn't stopped us from having spontaneous fun.

Just a couple weekends ago...my host called me up on a friday night and asked if my wife and I wanted to come out to vegas for the weekend....I said no...had plans for Sat. night that we couldnt get out of....Then I realized my wife would LOVE for a spontaneous evening....so I told him that I'd come out if he would fly me out for the night only.  He did and we took the baby...hopped on a flight and were back 14 hours later.

Now don't get me wrong...its not all peaches and cream.  Its a ton of hard work and dedication.  But it is SOOOOO worth it!!!!!


Thanks so much Van!
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#52
Posted: 1/19/2012 1:24:37 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jmilrod:

kids are the greatest gifts you could ever imagine

nothing will make you more happy or more proud than having a child of your own

i'm not going to say one way or the other ... that is completely up to you and the lady.. as it should be

but what i can say from my lifes experiences is that once that child comes it makes you want to be a better person instantly

i was always one to go out and party too, live it up, drink it up whatever. but now i have more fun than i ever did before in just a different kind of way

yes the responsibility factor kicks into gear automatically but it's well worth it because it naturally becomes something you want to do ... take care of your family

it opens your eyes to a whole new life

i never knew i could love someone as much as i do now... especially my little girls mother, it opened me up to a whole new side of her that i never would have even known existed without having a baby with her.

best wishes to you and your woman

im' sure whatever decision you end up making will be the right one



Thanks Jmilrod very nice to hear that good news!
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#53
Posted: 1/19/2012 2:32:31 PM

I've got 4 kids, i'd rather be around them more than anyone else

my mother in law lives with us

free baby sitter i can trust 

i'm sure i save about 600 a month having 4 (i give her 200 a month) she also cooks and cleans

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#54
Posted: 1/19/2012 2:48:45 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by boberts427:

I've got 4 kids, i'd rather be around them more than anyone else

my mother in law lives with us

free baby sitter i can trust 

i'm sure i save about 600 a month having 4 (i give her 200 a month) she also cooks and cleans



yeah the trust is the best part plus the cost effective way is nice too!
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#55
Posted: 1/19/2012 7:55:12 PM
Your situation is almost identical to mine. I'm 33, she's 35.. all the stuff about her not wanting kids and me being 50/50 on it, her being hot, smart, considerate, treating me like gold.. all the same. Let me tell you how I rationalize it:

If I decided I wanted a kid, I could very easily find a woman who will give me that. Is it worth giving up near perfection in every other way that I value? The answer is an overwhelming NO.

Every other woman that I know would give me that kid, but it would come with some baggage I don't want to deal with it. If you're just 50/50, forget about kids. Pick your battles.. this probably isn't important enough to you. Good luck
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#56
Posted: 1/19/2012 9:33:35 PM
Great thought and I've thought this way as well! Thanks puck!
Posted using a mobile device.
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#57
Posted: 1/20/2012 12:59:02 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jesron1269:

There is a lot of great points of views here for your consideration.  I stress that the decision should be yours (and your significant others of course) and forget what you hear from anyone else whether it be here, friends, family, etc.  Someone said it best... follow your heart as you will come to the right solution every time.

One thing I want to just hit on is the idea of the screwed up world we live in.  Dude this world has been screwed up since the dawn of man.  The Roman empire, the middle ages, the dark ages, the beginning of Christianity (when it was more of a cult), the Spanish Inquisition, Nazi Germany, Africa (always) etc, etc, etc.  $hit has been bad as long as there has been man.  This is something you cannot control and something I don't think I would worry about.  If $hit really hits the fan (such as rapture) what are you going to do about it anyway?  What does it really make a difference if you have a child (or two) or not?  The whole purpose of having children frankly is pass on your love, wisdom and life to someone else.  It really is a legacy if you will.  Because your children are your legacy it is something that you will work harder at than anything you have ever done and love more than you have ever loved before.  So yeah you can say having children is selfish too just go in with the right mindset, whatever your heart says and you will never go wrong.  BOL!


I was enjoying this thread until I stumbled on the above.

Look at what he says. The world has 'screwed up' since the dawn of man. He then goes through periods where man exposed his dark side (and then says Christianity was more of a cult in the past than it is today, as though there was a specific moment it stopped being one). 

But then of course, he gets to "Africa". And as he puts it, Africa has ALWAYS been screwed up. Oh yes, man has went through some dark times, but when we get to Africa, and the "dark man", well that has been in dark ages forever and still is. 

The statement lacks a very basic understanding of the history of Africa, which makes you wonder what the education system is providing, both high school and college alike (and 99.99% of the posters here are guilty of the same lack of knowledge).

He doesn't mention the history of colonization in Africa (which few people know of since Africa is just a "fucked up place" of mass poverty, deserts and black guys who roam plains with spears and whatever) which resulted a ravaged continent all in the name of imperialism, greed and exploitation of a land rich in natural resources to power the industrial revolution. And who ravaged it? France, Portugal, Britain. Yes they were Caucasian of course, pillaging and plundering the world over with a Manifest Destiny banner of righteousness to absolve them. Do I even need to mention the 4 centuries prior in which the transatlantic slave trade took TWELVE MILLION of its native people's into bondage, all in the name of forced labor?


And we wonder, as idiots do, why Africa is so 'fucked up' today. It most certainly couldn't be because of a legacy of subjugation and domination. Because as the poster said, it has ALWAYS been screwed up. 

Carry on with the child bearing talk. That interlude was a necessary one and that most certainly couldn't have been left unsaid. 
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#58
Posted: 1/20/2012 1:28:44 AM
Leave it to scalabrine to ruin a perfectly good thread as usual.


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#59
Posted: 1/20/2012 10:18:14 AM

From a logical, economic point of view, there is no reason to have children anymore.  150 years ago, you needed to have a lot of kids to work on your farm to just survive.  Now, you will never get the money back from what you have to invest to raise a kid, not to mention the time involved.

But, throwing out logic, once you have a kid, then you become emotionally attached (unless you are a deadbeat) and that emotional attachment justifies the time and money you put into raising them and then some.




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#60
Posted: 1/20/2012 10:26:38 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

I know people with kids who absolutely wanted kids, are great parents, have great kids, and wouldn't have it any other way.  Of course these people are going to say "have kids."

I also know people who have had kids.  Have been bad parents. Kids are more than a handful emotionally and likely will have problems as they grow up.  

One thing I consistently hear is that people who have kids "because it's the next step" or "the next thing to do" and aren't completely committed usually end up on the miserable side.  

The key isn't whether you "can't imagine your life without them" AFTER you have them.  It whether you can't imagine life without them BEFORE you have them.  If you are both not completely committed, then the answer is NO.

I do not have any kids.  I get my fix to some degree with all my nieces and nephews.  I'm selfish and I know it.  I also have big time reservations bringing a child into this world knowing what I know of it and fearing what might happen in the next 20-40 years.  

If anyone ever has to convince you or your wife to have children, then you did it for the wrong reasons. 


Hutch, I believe you have hit the nail on the head.  Great job of explaining it.  I do take issue with the "selfish" part though.  I believe that is just part of our generations mentality "if you don't have kids, you are selfish".   Nonsense.  That isn't being selfish at all.  If you don't want kids, don't have em.  NOthing selfish about that.  Just the opposite.  You are doing yourself and the world a favor, imho.   Always refreshing to read your posts Hutch.
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#61
Posted: 1/20/2012 10:30:25 AM
I see some posts about family.  Family, is what you make of it.  Fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, cousins, etc, etc.  You don't have to have children to have "family".  We live in a quiet neighborhood and know our neighbors very well.  Lived here for 19 years.  They are like family to us.  
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#62
Posted: 1/20/2012 10:32:39 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by minion0812:



Thanks so much Van!


As a frequent traveler, please, PLEASE do not TAKE A BABY on a trip on a jet.  It is NO fun for everyone.  
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#63
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:19:36 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:


I was enjoying this thread until I stumbled on the above.

Look at what he says. The world has 'screwed up' since the dawn of man. He then goes through periods where man exposed his dark side (and then says Christianity was more of a cult in the past than it is today, as though there was a specific moment it stopped being one). 

But then of course, he gets to "Africa". And as he puts it, Africa has ALWAYS been screwed up. Oh yes, man has went through some dark times, but when we get to Africa, and the "dark man", well that has been in dark ages forever and still is. 

The statement lacks a very basic understanding of the history of Africa, which makes you wonder what the education system is providing, both high school and college alike (and 99.99% of the posters here are guilty of the same lack of knowledge).

He doesn't mention the history of colonization in Africa (which few people know of since Africa is just a "fucked up place" of mass poverty, deserts and black guys who roam plains with spears and whatever) which resulted a ravaged continent all in the name of imperialism, greed and exploitation of a land rich in natural resources to power the industrial revolution. And who ravaged it? France, Portugal, Britain. Yes they were Caucasian of course, pillaging and plundering the world over with a Manifest Destiny banner of righteousness to absolve them. Do I even need to mention the 4 centuries prior in which the transatlantic slave trade took TWELVE MILLION of its native people's into bondage, all in the name of forced labor?


And we wonder, as idiots do, why Africa is so 'fucked up' today. It most certainly couldn't be because of a legacy of subjugation and domination. Because as the poster said, it has ALWAYS been screwed up. 

Carry on with the child bearing talk. That interlude was a necessary one and that most certainly couldn't have been left unsaid. 

Scal you cannot tell me that there is a bunch of bad $hit going on in Africa.  You of all people cannot deny the genocide that is going on.  Before you jump to conclusions you should ask for clarification.  Genocide and bad $hit has been going on in that continent since the dawn of man.  Yes some of it brought on by others (Romans, British, etc) but all the same people seem to turn a blind eye to stuff going on there but that doesn't mean the world is not screwed up.

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#64
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:21:21 AM
By the way Scal my comment didn't mention one race.  We all know that in some of the countries there are just as many white people as black (such as South Africa for example) so give it a rest.
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#65
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:29:37 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bandit1010:



As a frequent traveler, please, PLEASE do not TAKE A BABY on a trip on a jet.  It is NO fun for everyone.  


Haha nice! yeah I travel often too for business and I see what you mean. I just always have headphones handy so it doesn't get to me that bad.
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#66
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:32:26 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bandit1010:


Hutch, I believe you have hit the nail on the head.  Great job of explaining it.  I do take issue with the "selfish" part though.  I believe that is just part of our generations mentality "if you don't have kids, you are selfish".   Nonsense.  That isn't being selfish at all.  If you don't want kids, don't have em.  NOthing selfish about that.  Just the opposite.  You are doing yourself and the world a favor, imho.   Always refreshing to read your posts Hutch.


Yes totally agree. I just say the selfish thing because that is the societies take but F that. Overall family is what you make of it. Babies or not family can still be important. Plus if I never have babies I will be changing diapers anyway way my parents get old lol!!


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#67
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:43:02 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jesron1269:

By the way Scal my comment didn't mention one race.  We all know that in some of the countries there are just as many white people as black (such as South Africa for example) so give it a rest.

Well, I'm not accusing you of being a racist. You actually appear to be very levelheaded when it comes to the topic of race on this site. I was pointing out that Africa always is viewed in negative terms when compared with other continents and there is a legacy behind that. Also, South Africa most certainly has whites as you say, and to keep it white, it has one of the worst recent histories of apartheid in the modern world. 

Anyhow, to the OP, you and your wife may want to check out the forums as the following site to discuss views with those who do not have children. You will always find people who are for having children as many have expressed here, and rightfully so. 

Children bring great joy. Unfortunately, they will likely bring a strain on the relationship given that you and your wife will now be dedicating all your time and energy to your newborn; time that would otherwise be spent with eachother. It is important that you both will be prepared for that as things will change, but ultimately can change for the better with a new life that you will regard unlike any other.

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#68
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:45:19 AM

 My kids are grown & gone..............& I miss them.

 She may change her mind down the road so don't feel like it's now or never. I can tell you 2 things for sure.............you both need to agree completely on the decision to have kids, & once you do (have kids) your life changes forever.

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#69
Posted: 1/20/2012 12:09:27 PM
Thanks Mugg agree it has to be both completely agreeing!

Scal-I will check that forum out thanks
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#70
Posted: 1/20/2012 11:24:26 PM
women have a maternal instinct, its instilled into them, if your lady doesnt want kids, thats a big red flag, i would think about other issues though, denying your parents a grandchild, when you die, who will get your assets, dont u want to raise a family? expense should never be a consideration unless you want to have 10 kids
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#71
Posted: 2/23/2012 12:33:14 AM


anyone been to california where its either 40s50s w. no kid or 1 kid or the welfare illegals all have 3+????
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#72
Posted: 2/23/2012 7:07:49 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by boberts427:

I've got 4 kids, i'd rather be around them more than anyone else

my mother in law lives with us

free baby sitter i can trust 

i'm sure i save about 600 a month having 4 (i give her 200 a month) she also cooks and cleans



Dude you are rapping her. We pay our non-live in nanny 2,000 a month!
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#73
Posted: 2/23/2012 9:32:22 PM

     Myself and my chic struggle with this all the time.  Not with each other, but neither of us can decide if we want any.  Together for 11 years, living together for about 5, engaged for 2-12.  And yes I get asked all the time... "What are you guys waiting for?"  But that's irrelavant to this discussion I think.

     We're just not sure if we want to give up our freedom.

     But that's a tough call on your part bro.  And I don't think anyone can help you.  With all due respect, it sounds like you might have to make that decision on your own eventually.  You seem, to me, like you really WANT to have a kid.  And from what you posted, it seems that she really DOESN'T want that. 

     And she seems like a great catch too!

     Good luck with that dude.  Keep us posted.

    

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#74
Posted: 2/23/2012 9:34:33 PM

... engaged for 2-1/2

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#75
Posted: 2/23/2012 9:39:54 PM
kids are a tremendous responsibility, will cost you a boatload of money until they can fend for themselves, and will cause your hair to turn grey prematurely. but, it's worth it all. i have been blessed with two of my own and love every minute being a dad. there's nothing like it. i recommend it highly.
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