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Author: [General Discussion] Topic: If Christ died on the cross for all of humanity
HutchEmAll send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#5326
Posted: 3/15/2012 5:48:29 PM
Just a thought. Are atheism and intelligence oxymorons? I'm truly beginning to wonder. Based on this thread atheism is closely related to laziness, delusional thought patterns and avoidance psychosis
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What does laziness, delusional thought patterns, and avoidance psychosis have to do with intelligence?  If you were intelligent, you'd know that these can absolutely be mutually exclusive and often are.    
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#5327
Posted: 3/15/2012 5:50:58 PM
SJD- I'm wondering how you figured that out or did System tell you she was a woman. I could have sworn it was a dude. 
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#5328
Posted: 3/15/2012 5:52:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Just a thought. Are atheism and intelligence oxymorons? I'm truly beginning to wonder. Based on this thread atheism is closely related to laziness, delusional thought patterns and avoidance psychosis
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What does laziness, delusional thought patterns, and avoidance psychosis have to do with intelligence?  If you were intelligent, you'd know that these can absolutely be mutually exclusive and often are.    
Put some work in Hutch and stop avoiding the issue. 
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#5329
Posted: 3/15/2012 5:54:28 PM
On a different subject. I'm not sure if any of you atheist joined the NCAA pool or not but payouts have been announced. I know you guys lead some boring lives but I would think a little contest would at least get you going again. After all this is a sports capping site. 
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#5330
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:39:36 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

SJD- I'm wondering how you figured that out or did System tell you she was a woman. I could have sworn it was a dude. 

you're not very smart, are you
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#5331
Posted: 3/16/2012 10:09:11 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Put some work in Hutch and stop avoiding the issue. 

Avoiding what issue?  And I've put in plenty of work.  


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#5332
Posted: 3/16/2012 10:10:29 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Its quite simple really....

1. All things that begin to exist have a cause

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This is an intriguing argument.  But why doesn't it apply to God?

I know, I know, we are on to the supernatural and our scientific "laws" don't apply.  How do we know?  Then why does it have to be God that created the universe?  Couldn't it just as easily be a supernatural entity we don't yet know of or understand?  How can we claim to understand the supernatural?  Does understanding the supernatural mean seeing a UFO or having an out of body experience?  Not for me.  

Explain how the supernatural can exist from nothing, but our world cannot. 


And stop telling me to put in "some work" and answer my question.  
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#5333
Posted: 3/16/2012 11:53:56 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


And stop telling me to put in "some work" and answer my question.  
Answer your question? We have done nothing but answer all of you guys questions. What have you guys done? Give us one word answers or dismiss it entirely. Like I said put some work in. You haven't done that at all. I have posted several challenges on this thread. You're the one that said I was going off the deep end. Prove me wrong. Do the research and prove me wrong. Then come back here and tell me how crazy I am. 
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#5334
Posted: 3/16/2012 12:06:15 PM
As usual the atheist are good at throwing out bombs or labeling people but when it comes to actually backing up their trash, there's not an atheist to be found. I have given an open invitation to prove me wrong. Should be easy for atheists since this falls right into your wheel house. We're talking science now. Your silence is deafening. One can only assume that you truly don't believe the crap you spew out for public consumption. If you really believed this trash then you would at least put some effort into backing it up with work. 
We had one atheist (Vanzack) basically admit his laziness by saying he wasn't even going to bother "read all that" and then proceeded to answer a question that wasn't asked. This has been an eye opening experience for me because I have a completely different view of atheist based on the display of laziness, lack of knowledge and a complete disconnect with reality demonstrated repeatedly on this thread. Let's not forget the constant contradictions that we have read coming from atheist on this thread. The drums are still beating waiting for an atheist to back up his or her words and beliefs with some action. 
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#5335
Posted: 3/16/2012 12:44:35 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

Answer your question? We have done nothing but answer all of you guys questions. What have you guys done? Give us one word answers or dismiss it entirely. Like I said put some work in. You haven't done that at all. I have posted several challenges on this thread. You're the one that said I was going off the deep end. Prove me wrong. Do the research and prove me wrong. Then come back here and tell me how crazy I am. 

I have spent hours and hours and hours discussing God with plenty of people.  Quit assuming I haven't.  

I haven't given you one word answers and I haven't dismissed God entirely (I love it how you group me into the folks who say they are convinced God doesn't exist....I have never said that).  

Why don't you stop being lazy and and address this?  It doesn't require you to do any research....you already believe you know.  So just explain it to me.  

Its quite simple really....

1. All things that begin to exist have a cause

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This is an intriguing argument.  But why doesn't it apply to God?



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#5336
Posted: 3/16/2012 12:50:47 PM
Answer your question? We have done nothing but answer all of you guys questions. 
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Its quite simple really....

1. All things that begin to exist have a cause

________________

This is an intriguing argument.  But why doesn't it apply to God?


Answer this.

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#5337
Posted: 3/16/2012 12:53:00 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


I have spent hours and hours and hours discussing God with plenty of people.  Quit assuming I haven't.  

I haven't given you one word answers and I haven't dismissed God entirely (I love it how you group me into the folks who say they are convinced God doesn't exist....I have never said that).  

Why don't you stop being lazy and and address this?  It doesn't require you to do any research....you already believe you know.  So just explain it to me.  

Its quite simple really....

1. All things that begin to exist have a cause

________________

This is an intriguing argument.  But why doesn't it apply to God?



SJD has addressed this issue quite thoroughly IMO. I suggest you read his posts on this subject. I guess it's safe to say that you will ignore my request as usual. It's Friday and I have work to do. TTYL.
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#5338
Posted: 3/16/2012 2:13:18 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

SJD has addressed this issue quite thoroughly IMO. I suggest you read his posts on this subject. I guess it's safe to say that you will ignore my request as usual. It's Friday and I have work to do. TTYL.
 
SJD also posted a quote from Einstein in support of his "argument." And it was taken out of context because Einstein doesn't believe in a personal God (Rostos says so as well).

I'm interested in your opinion.  Fill me in.  
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#5339
Posted: 3/16/2012 3:01:52 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by smoothd20:

SJD has addressed this issue quite thoroughly IMO. I suggest you read his posts on this subject. I guess it's safe to say that you will ignore my request as usual. It's Friday and I have work to do. TTYL.

Exactly.

Guys like hutch are a waste of time. They keep asking about who caused God or who created God and we keep telling them God is eternal He is the uncaused cause.

You would think it would sink in by now but these guys are not very smart.

You can give biblical, philosophical reasons why God exist but it won't sink in. When judgment day comes oh boy there is going to be a lot of sad faces.

And that quote by Einstein that I posted is one of his many quotes that have been collected and it is not taking out of context. He said what he said. Einstein might have been a brilliant man of science but he lacked an understanding of the Almighty God.

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#5340
Posted: 3/16/2012 3:09:18 PM

The First Cause Argument (Part 4)

There is a single common logical structure to all four proofs. Instead of proving God directly, they prove him indirectly, by refuting atheism. Either there is a first cause or not. The proofs look at "not" and refute it, leaving the only other possibility, that God is.

Each of the four ways makes the same point for four different kinds of cause: first, cause of motion; second, cause of a beginning to existence; third, cause of present existence; and fourth, cause of goodness or value. The common point is that if there were no first cause, there could be no second causes, and there are second causes (moved movers, caused causers, dependent and mortal beings, and less-than-wholly-perfect beings). Therefore there must be a first cause of motion, beginning, existence, and perfection.

How can anyone squirm out of this tight logic? Here are four ways in which different philosophers try.

First, many say the proofs don't prove God but only some vague first cause or other. "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not the God of philosophers and scholars", cries Pascal, who was a passionate Christian but did not believe you could logically prove God's existence. It is true that the proofs do not prove everything the Christian means by God, but they do prove a transcendent, eternal, uncaused, immortal, self-existing, independent, all-perfect being. That certainly sounds more like God than like Superman! It's a pretty thick slice of God, at any rate—much too much for any atheist to digest.

Second, some philosophers, like Hume, say that the concept of cause is ambiguous and not applicable beyond the physical universe to God. How dare we use the same term for what clouds do to rain, what parents do to children, what authors do to books, and what God does to the universe? The answer is that the concept of cause is analogical—that is, it differs somewhat but not completely from one example to another. Human fatherhood is like divine fatherhood, and physical causality is like divine causality. The way an author conceives a book in his mind is not exactly the same as the way a woman conceives a baby in her body either, but we call both causes. (In fact, we also call both conceptions.) The objection is right to point out that we do not fully understand how God causes the universe, as we understand how parents cause children or clouds cause rain. But the term remains meaningful. A cause is the sine qua non for an effect: if no cause, no effect. If no creator, no creation; if no God, no universe.

Third, it is sometimes argued (e.g., by Bertrand Russell) that there is a self-contradiction in the argument, for one of the premises is that everything needs a cause, but the conclusion is that there is something (God) which does not need a cause. The child who asks "Who made God?" is really thinking of this objection. The answer is very simple: the argument does not use the premise that everything needs a cause. Everything in motion needs a cause, everything dependent needs a cause, everything imperfect needs a cause.

Fourth, it is often asked why there can't be infinite regress, with no first being. Infinite regress is perfectly acceptable in mathematics: negative numbers go on to infinity just as positive numbers do. So why can't time be like the number series, with no highest number either negatively (no first in the past) or positively (no last in the future)? The answer is that real beings are not like numbers: they need causes, for the chain of real beings moves in one direction only, from past to future, and the future is caused by the past. Positive numbers are not caused by negative numbers. There is, in fact, a parallel in the number series for a first cause: the number one. If there were no first positive integer, no unit one, there could be no subsequent addition of units. Two is two ones, three is three ones, and so on. If there were no first, there could be no second or third.

If this argument is getting too tricky, the thing to do is to return to what is sure and clear: the intuitive point we began with. Not everyone can understand all the abstract details of the first-cause argument, but anyone can understand its basic point: as C. S. Lewis put it, "I felt in my bones that this universe does not explain itself."

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#5341
Posted: 3/16/2012 3:46:05 PM
The bible says vegetarians are being seduced by evil spirits. It makes perfect sense. Sure high cholesterol is a problem and billions have died from arteriosclerosis, but our benevolent Father has produced Lipitor now. So my fellow Christians, Eat, Pray and take your Lipitor!

What the Bilbe says about Vegetarians:

 Acts 10:9-13
Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Romans 14:2
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

1 Timothy 4:1-3
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils ... commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
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#5342
Posted: 3/16/2012 4:20:33 PM
Guys like hutch are a waste of time. They keep asking about who caused God or who created God and we keep telling them God is eternal He is the uncaused cause.
____________

Why?  How is God eternal?  How do you know?  You don't.  Faith is not knowing, it's believing. There is a difference. 

Still haven't answered my question.  What if something ELSE that was eternal created the earth and the heavens?  You apparently think that God was never created.....he just always was.  Couldn't there be another thing that always "was."  It's the supernatural.  How do you know that God is the only thing eternal (if there is such a thing)?  

You've already taken Einstein out of context in an attempt to prove your point.  What is next?


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#5343
Posted: 3/16/2012 4:23:23 PM
but anyone can understand its basic point: as C. S. Lewis put it, "I felt in my bones that this universe does not explain itself."
__________

I "FELT."  What about people who haven't felt it?
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#5344
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:01:02 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

Guys like hutch are a waste of time. They keep asking about who caused God or who created God and we keep telling them God is eternal He is the uncaused cause.
____________

Why?  How is God eternal?  How do you know?  You don't.  Faith is not knowing, it's believing. There is a difference. 

Still haven't answered my question.  What if something ELSE that was eternal created the earth and the heavens?  You apparently think that God was never created.....he just always was.  Couldn't there be another thing that always "was."  It's the supernatural.  How do you know that God is the only thing eternal (if there is such a thing)?  

You've already taken Einstein out of context in an attempt to prove your point.  What is next?



don't you know by now Hutch, it's because they saidjust forget using any logic and just listen to what they say

this is a guy who lives his life in fear... "when judgement day comes oh boy there are going to be a lot of sad faces"
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#5345
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:30:01 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:

____________

Why?  How is God eternal?  How do you know?  You don't.  Faith is not knowing, it's believing. There is a difference. 



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#5346
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:33:09 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by HutchEmAll:


I "FELT."  What about people who haven't felt it?

 

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#5347
Posted: 3/16/2012 7:10:22 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by CRRECORDS:

The bible says vegetarians are being seduced by evil spirits. It makes perfect sense. Sure high cholesterol is a problem and billions have died from arteriosclerosis, but our benevolent Father has produced Lipitor now. So my fellow Christians, Eat, Pray and take your Lipitor!

What the Bilbe says about Vegetarians:

 Acts 10:9-13
Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Romans 14:2
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

1 Timothy 4:1-3
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils ... commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Here is a good example of an atheist misinterpreting the Holy Bible and not fully understanding the message.

In Acts Chapter 10, the chapter was about Peter visiting Cornelius, a Roman officer, who was a devout and God-fearing man, and well respected by the person and a Gentile.

This passage was really about the Gentiles hearing the Good News from Peter. Peter seen it clearly that God shows no favoritism. In every nation He accepts those who fear Him and do what is right.

The part about animals, reptiles and birds were when Peter was in a trance and it is all symbolic leading up to the real message the Lord was conveying. It had nothing to do with vegetarians...lol One needs to read the whole chapter thoroughly and completely to understand the true meaning.

In Romans Chapter 14, the chapter was about 'The Danger of Critism'. The Lord was saying accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don't argue with them about what they think is right or wrong.

He then gives an example and says for instance, one person believes it's all right to eat anything, but another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don't. And those who don't eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for He has accepted them.

In 1 Timothy Chapter 4, the chapter was about "Warnings against False Teachers". The Lord tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith, they will follow deceptive spirits and teaching that come from demons.

Those people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead. They will say things like it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods.

But God created those foods to be eaten with thanks by faithful people who know the truth. Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks.

So these 3 different passages in the Holy Bible has nothing to do with vegetarians being seduced by evil spirits.

It looks like you have been seduced by an evil spirit to post something that is utterly false...shame on you!

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#5348
Posted: 3/16/2012 7:45:52 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by SirJohnDrake:

Here is a good example of an atheist misinterpreting the Holy Bible and not fully understanding the message.

In Acts Chapter 10, the chapter was about Peter visiting Cornelius, a Roman officer, who was a devout and God-fearing man, and well respected by the person and a Gentile.

This passage was really about the Gentiles hearing the Good News from Peter. Peter seen it clearly that God shows no favoritism. In every nation He accepts those who fear Him and do what is right.

The part about animals, reptiles and birds were when Peter was in a trance and it is all symbolic leading up to the real message the Lord was conveying. It had nothing to do with vegetarians...lol One needs to read the whole chapter thoroughly and completely to understand the true meaning.

In Romans Chapter 14, the chapter was about 'The Danger of Critism'. The Lord was saying accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don't argue with them about what they think is right or wrong.

He then gives an example and says for instance, one person believes it's all right to eat anything, but another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don't. And those who don't eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for He has accepted them.

In 1 Timothy Chapter 4, the chapter was about "Warnings against False Teachers". The Lord tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith, they will follow deceptive spirits and teaching that come from demons.

Those people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead. They will say things like it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods.

But God created those foods to be eaten with thanks by faithful people who know the truth. Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks.

So these 3 different passages in the Holy Bible has nothing to do with vegetarians being seduced by evil spirits.

It looks like you have been seduced by an evil spirit to post something that is utterly false...shame on you!

this is the exact "criticism" i am talking about....these liberal atheists who think "greens are your power food" do not understand the teachings of our Lord and Master. Now get over to mickey d's and get a double quarter pounder with cheese....hallelujah......get the meal deal the fries and hot apple pie they are to die for
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#5349
Posted: 3/16/2012 7:55:36 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by CRRECORDS:

this is the exact "criticism" i am talking about....these liberal atheists who think "greens are your power food" do not understand the teachings of our Lord and Master. Now get over to mickey d's and get a double quarter pounder with cheese....hallelujah......get the meal deal the fries and hot apple pie they are to die for

I know comprehension was not one of your strongest skills while attending school...am I right about that?...lol

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#5350
Posted: 3/16/2012 8:21:56 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by CRRECORDS:

this is the exact "criticism" i am talking about....these liberal atheists who think "greens are your power food" 

Eating sensibly helps. Vegetables are really good and so is a nice steak to go along with those vegetables once in a while.

Eat right, exercise regularly, don't smoke, maybe an occasional lite beer, drink lots of water, take your vitamins...these things should help you live a healthy, long life.

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