If Clemens is innocent 12-15-2007-1:26 Covers

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Author:	[Baseball] Topic: If Clemens is innocent
depeche2	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Legend Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 57982 Location: Illinois	#1 Posted: 12/15/2007 1:26:58 AM then he has to sue MLB. If he really didn't do it then it's worth getting his name back and he should win. If he did do it, then obviously he can't sue. Therefore, if he doesn't sue then the only conclusion can be that he can't sure, and if he can't sue, that means the allegations are TRUE.
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Cruisefan	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Rookie Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 695 Location: Nevada	#2 Posted: 12/15/2007 3:21:47 AM
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wdawson	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 3529 Location: Texas	#3 Posted: 12/15/2007 4:50:31 AM Too bad in court the burden of proof is a "he said she said" and any judge and jury will not be able to reach a decision.
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hustle_man	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Captain Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8678 Location:	#4 Posted: 12/15/2007 5:01:48 AM I cant get over the fact that people wanted to accuse Bonds of cheating for years without proof but when Clemens is busted, everyone questions the validity of the report. Only in America (can overt racism continue to exist)
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Jurassic2	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Captain Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 5238 Location: New York	#5 Posted: 12/15/2007 5:47:58 AM You got that right.
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ClubDirt	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4030 Location: United States	#6 Posted: 12/15/2007 9:13:45 AM true. cheaters like clemens and bonds would definitely be suing if what has been written about them using steroids is false (particularly bonds since a whole book was written about him). obviously, you'd have to be a complete moron to think bonds wasn't on the juice due to the overwhelming evidence and if clemens doesn't sue after this, the same can be said about him.
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MuEagles79	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3286 Location: Illinois	#7 Posted: 12/15/2007 11:12:43 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wdawson: Too bad in court the burden of proof is a "he said she said" and any judge and jury will not be able to reach a decision. Wrong....the burden of proof in a libel suit, which is what he would be suing under since the report has now been printed, is that the published material is false, that the person reporting knew it to be false, and that there is malice upon the part of the reporter. It is an almost impossible legal hurdle to climb. Basically what I am saying is that it would be impossible for Clemens to win on something like this...it is his public figure status that kills him. Some of the lesser known players might have a better shot since they might not be deemed a "public figure" and then that changes the burden of proof. Lester Munson of ESPN has a decent analysis of it if you would like to read further
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wdawson	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 3529 Location: Texas	#8 Posted: 12/15/2007 11:52:11 AM We both just said the same thing. Clemens cant win or lose this because there is no way to prove who is telling the truth. And him going to court is a great PR move because he has nothing to lose right now, and he still gets to make it look like he is innocent by fighting it.
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wdawson	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 3529 Location: Texas	#9 Posted: 12/15/2007 11:59:21 AM The only way I think can lose this battle is if he refuses to take the stand, and the trainer says he knocked him up 4 times while under oath. And I really dont think Clemens is ready to perjure himself. And I do believe the trainer doesent even have to take the stand if this goes to trial, because of his statement in the Mitchell Report is admissible evidence. And who does Clemens go after, the trainer, Mitchell, MLB ???
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NJDevils	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook
Hall of Fame Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 24793 Location: Nevada	#10 Posted: 12/15/2007 12:14:02 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by hustle_man: I cant get over the fact that people wanted to accuse Bonds of cheating for years without proof but when Clemens is busted, everyone questions the validity of the report. Only in America (can overt racism continue to exist) Uh, Bonds in the report too genius
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ClubDirt	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4030 Location: United States	#11 Posted: 12/15/2007 2:33:21 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by MuEagles79: Wrong....the burden of proof in a libel suit, which is what he would be suing under since the report has now been printed, is that the published material is false, that the person reporting knew it to be false, and that there is malice upon the part of the reporter. It is an almost impossible legal hurdle to climb. Basically what I am saying is that it would be impossible for Clemens to win on something like this...it is his public figure status that kills him. Some of the lesser known players might have a better shot since they might not be deemed a "public figure" and then that changes the burden of proof. Lester Munson of ESPN has a decent analysis of it if you would like to read further yeah, but i think it's more about perception thany anything else. this may be a tough lawsuit from a legal standpoint but the average person doesn't know the intricacies of a libel suit and doesn't care. people talk about suing other people for all sorts of shit. i think if what they reported about clemens was false, he would at least threaten to sue or say he's having his lawyers look into it or say that since he's knows it's false, he's confident he can win the lawsuit. something. it's worse for bonds. a whole book was written about him including a statement that he admitted to juicing in his grand jury testimony. that's easy to disprove. just get the transcript. but i think we all know why bonds and clemens won't sue anyone over this.
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TyDarius	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1058 Location:	#12 Posted: 12/15/2007 2:58:21 PM I look at it like this, some things we just use use common since. Look at Clemens numbers, at age 43 he has 1.87. I don't care what he does, that's not natural, so he's doing something just as Barry was. Why can't society instead of giving him advice on how to come across as innocent, just stand up and say, we now understand how you were able to cotinue dominating for so long. Your busted and the only option you have is to explain why you did what you did? Imma realest I don't need to hear Clemens (someone i don't know ) try and deny this. Just like 9/11. I don't need anyone to explain to me how the the towers can come down in 9 seconds which would be freefall speed. I know what's going on, and if you don't wanna come out and be honest the I don't wanna hear what lies you have to tell, because too many ignorant people will want to believe it.
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umgmu	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
All-Star Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 14023 Location:	#13 Posted: 12/15/2007 4:02:02 PM If you look at Clemens physical size from 1986 -when the REd Sox played the Mutts in the WS to today 2007 , you'll notice a DISTINCT SIZE difference in Clemens .. He played for my Jays in 97 when he was in his mid 30's and won 45 games in 2 years after Boston said he was washed up.. It was some kind of juice -that's just a fact .. Otherwise , HE should sueas Depeche said ..
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MuEagles79	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3286 Location: Illinois	#14 Posted: 12/16/2007 11:04:20 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by wdawson: We both just said the same thing. Clemens cant win or lose this because there is no way to prove who is telling the truth. And him going to court is a great PR move because he has nothing to lose right now, and he still gets to make it look like he is innocent by fighting it. Actually, Clemens going to court...or any of these guys going to court....on a libel suit is the worst thing they can do. Our legal system has this wonderful device in civil suits called discovery. Basically, both sides can obtain documents, statements, and other evidence from the other side. For Clemens, this is going to include his medical records, prescriptions, etc. Additionally, the threat of perjury exists for Clemens. For those two reasons, you will never see Clemens in a courtroom with his attorney suing MLB for libel. He can make all the statements through his attorney that he never took HGH/steroids but they don't mean shit. Remember when Bonds was denying all of these charges and threatening to sue the San Francisco Chronicle for "Game of Shadows"....still waiting Barry for that suit
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depeche2	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Legend Joined: Feb 2002 Posts: 57982 Location: Illinois	#15 Posted: 12/16/2007 2:49:01 PM Mu, exactly, but that's why he can't sue if there is any truth to what was said. Because he would be exposed. BUT, if it is all simply a complete fabrication then discovery should be nothing to fear. He won't sue. And the reason is because what was reported is true, or at least mostly true.
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The Hawk	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Captain Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5235 Location: California	#16 Posted: 12/18/2007 12:01:19 PM Clemen..........and the word "innocent"
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The Hawk	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Captain Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 5235 Location: California	#17 Posted: 12/18/2007 12:05:32 PM ClemenS...............sorry A juicer by any other name..............
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MuEagles79	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Veteran Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3286 Location: Illinois	#18 Posted: 12/18/2007 7:46:13 PM the denial today was priceless what I love is how the "Mainstream media"...aka ESPN....is so quick to believe these guys excuses or denials. For example, all of a sudden we are supposed to believe Brian Roberts only used steroids once when a week ago he was denying he used them at all. For anyone wondering whether Clemens juiced or not, take a look at when he first started using steroids in the Mitchell Report....it happens to coincide with a 14 game winning streak and a 21-5 season
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chillery	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook
Captain Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 8225 Location: California	#19 Posted: 12/19/2007 2:24:08 AM Clemens / free Barry
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