Time to abolish the NHL and start over..................

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Author: [NHL Betting] Topic: Time to abolish the NHL and start over..................
lookingtowin PM lookingtowin
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Posted: 11/20/2012 7:05:24 AM

Its time to start over with a brand new league with no Union and all players will get a new contract every year.  All players will be graded  as a,b,c.   Grades come from previous years output.  A player gets 2,000,000 per year B player 1,500,000 and C 1,000,000. No damn Union and no free agency for a minimum 5 years but pay scale stays the same its only if a player wants to switch teams he gets no extra signing bonus he is simply switching teams.  These players are spoiled.  Ted Lindsay wanted this union and the great GORDIE HOWE said no.  GORDIE WAS HAPPY TO SIGN WITH THE RED  WINGS FOR $3000.00 and a leather jacket.  Now the players want $6,000,000 a year plus part of the owners profits its a complete joke.

lookingtowin PM lookingtowin
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Posted: 11/20/2012 8:18:07 AM
Rocket Richard who was probably better than 98% of the players of today had to work in a steel mill in Montreal during the summer to make ends meet.  People say its all relative bullshit.   My second cousin is Harry Lumley who won two Stanley Cups and his best year ever was $13,000. a year which included a playoff bonus.  If you say that $6,000,000 today is relative to $13,000 back in the late 50's or earlly 60's then you have a huge math problem.  Sydney Crosby makes 9,000,000 a year plus bonuses which works out to $110,000 per game for lets say 25 to 30 minutes of hockey per game.   We have Major Jr A hockey in my hometown which is every bit as entertaining if not more than the NHL  so i don't care if they ever come back.
CalifDreamin PM CalifDreamin
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Posted: 11/20/2012 9:22:31 AM
I agree with a ton of what youre saying. In thisthe economy its hard to sympathize with a bunch of guys in their 20s and 30s whining because theyre only gonna make 1.2 million/yr instead of 1.5 million/yr for playing games while teams go bankrupt. Just rich entitled athletes who think theyre god and couldn't care less about anyone but themselves
Posted using a mobile device.
lookingtowin PM lookingtowin
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Posted: 11/20/2012 9:33:17 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by CalifDreamin:

I agree with a ton of what youre saying. In thisthe economy its hard to sympathize with a bunch of guys in their 20s and 30s whining because theyre only gonna make 1.2 million/yr instead of 1.5 million/yr for playing games while teams go bankrupt. Just rich entitled athletes who think theyre god and couldn't care less about anyone but themselves

Yeah all i was trying to get across back in the days of the original 6 Detroit, Toronto, New York, Boston, Chicago and Montreal players played for the shear love of the game and to put their name on the Stanley Cup was bigger than money.  Now its all about money, money, money period.

shimmersun PM shimmersun
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Posted: 11/20/2012 5:50:43 PM
Harry Lumley really? Wow. That's cool. Got mad love for old goalies. I see what you are saying. There needs to be a  contract that lasts longer than a 5 year span. This strike is so stupid, they should be playing under the current agreement until a new one is worked out.
lookingtowin PM lookingtowin
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Posted: 11/20/2012 7:04:31 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by shimmersun:

Harry Lumley really? Wow. That's cool. Got mad love for old goalies. I see what you are saying. There needs to be a  contract that lasts longer than a 5 year span. This strike is so stupid, they should be playing under the current agreement until a new one is worked out.

Unfortunately Harry passed away a few years back but our hometown arena is named after him here in Owen Sound Ontario its the Harry Lumley Bayshore Community Centre where the Owen Sound Attack play out of and i might add are  the third ranked Major Jr. A team in Canada right now.  Harry was one  hell of a goalie and went up to the Red Wings when he was only 17 or 18 years old and didn't start playing goal until he was 15.   Harry used to attend all home games before his passing but he always told my dad that he much preferred watching the Juniors play rather than the overpaid NHLers.  My dad told me how Harry used to skip school in the mornings go to the rink and suit up and had the arena manager shoot pucks at him.  When i think back to my youth and watching either of the 6 Original teams fight it out for the Stanley Cup and you knew every player on every team no it wasn't as fast as hockey as it is today but it was great hockey.  The old Chicago Stadium with Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita,  Whitey Stapelton man it was all about hockey not MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

bk_widows PM bk_widows
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Posted: 11/20/2012 7:10:44 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by lookingtowin:

These players are spoiled.  Ted Lindsay wanted this union and the great GORDIE HOWE said no.  GORDIE WAS HAPPY TO SIGN WITH THE RED  WINGS FOR $3000.00 and a leather jacket.  Now the players want $6,000,000 a year plus part of the owners profits its a complete joke.

...

...

my friend, do you think gordie howe today, at age 84, travels north america making paid appearances because he loves it?...

he does it to make a living...

in 1968, howe was making $40,000 a year with the assurance of management that he was the highest-paid player on the red wings, and yes, howe was gleefully happy to just sign the contract he got every yr in the mail, and send it back...

the wings acquired bobby baun, who in his wildest dreams was maybe an average defender who happened to play on toronto's 60s Cup-winning teams..baun negotiated his own deals...and one day when he and howe were out at lunch he informed gordie that he, baun, was making twice as much money as howe...

howe went right to management, and got a raise...

yes, there was pure love for the game back in those days because that's ALL the players had...

and if you can explain to me the difference between jim carrey getting $20 million a movie, or springsteen concert tickets costing $300 a pop, and a hockey player making 6 or 7 figures, please free free...

bottom line: they're entertainers and just as entitled to be paid for their talents

lookingtowin PM lookingtowin
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Posted: 11/20/2012 7:40:52 PM
[Quote: Originally Posted by bk_widows] ...

...

my friend, do you think gordie howe today, at age 84, travels north america making paid appearances because he loves it?...

he does it to make a living...

in 1968, howe was making $40,000 a year with the assurance of management that he was the highest-paid player on the red wings, and yes, howe was gleefully happy to just sign the contract he got every yr in the mail, and send it back...

the wings acquired bobby baun, who in his wildest dreams was maybe an average defender who happened to play on toronto's 60s Cup-winning teams..baun negotiated his own deals...and one day when he and howe were out at lunch he informed gordie that he, baun, was making twice as much money as howe...

howe went right to management, and got a raise...

yes, there was pure love for the game back in those days because that's ALL the players had...

and if you can explain to me the difference between jim carrey getting $20 million a movie, or springsteen concert tickets costing $300 a pop, and a hockey player making 6 or 7 figures, please free free...

bottom line: they're entertainers and just as entitled to be paid for their talents

[/Quote}

Make no mistake whether it be baseball, hockey, basketball, movies i don't care everything is out of hand none of them deserve to make the money they are making and its only us idiots who keep paying for the tickets and buying their garbage behind jerseys, hats etc. etc.   Anyways i have decided i will not attend even one more hockey game and if baseball goes on strike again no more ball games same for football i know i am only one but maybe more people will wake up some day.  I'm tired of all the million dollar babys.  I can watch Major Jr. A hockey in my hometown for $17.50 a ticket and its twice the entertainment in my books as the NHL.

LanceLogan PM LanceLogan
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Posted: 11/20/2012 8:02:01 PM
Actually I think  Gordie Howe is a partner with Toigo and Pat Quinn with the Vancouver Giants WHL team.
Flutiemaniac341 PM Flutiemaniac341
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Posted: 11/23/2012 1:23:40 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bk_widows:

...

...

my friend, do you think gordie howe today, at age 84, travels north america making paid appearances because he loves it?...

he does it to make a living...

in 1968, howe was making $40,000 a year with the assurance of management that he was the highest-paid player on the red wings, and yes, howe was gleefully happy to just sign the contract he got every yr in the mail, and send it back...

the wings acquired bobby baun, who in his wildest dreams was maybe an average defender who happened to play on toronto's 60s Cup-winning teams..baun negotiated his own deals...and one day when he and howe were out at lunch he informed gordie that he, baun, was making twice as much money as howe...

howe went right to management, and got a raise...

yes, there was pure love for the game back in those days because that's ALL the players had...

and if you can explain to me the difference between jim carrey getting $20 million a movie, or springsteen concert tickets costing $300 a pop, and a hockey player making 6 or 7 figures, please free free...

bottom line: they're entertainers and just as entitled to be paid for their talents

Difference is that 4th line players like Matheui Darche and fringe defenseman like Ron Hainsey get paid 3 million a year! No one pays to see Ron Hainsey play hockey. Method actors don't get millions per film. Brad Pitt gets paid because ppl want to see him. He has the cache much like Crosby!
I actually think Sidney Crosby is underpaid for what he brings to the NHL!

If u want to talk about fair? How about getting rid of these guaranteed contracts where players like Rick Dipietro get paid 100 million to sit on the bench. How's that fair to the owners! What Allan Eagleson did to them and Clarence Campbell, etc means nothing. Especially to the players of this day and age. If the players had such an appreciation for the sacrifices of those before them much like Erik Cole misplaced words put forth this week. Then, why not ask for a 6 % pension for retired players?? In the very least it would be a great pr move. 47% owners, 47% players, 6% old guard!
bk_widows PM bk_widows
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Posted: 11/23/2012 5:07:56 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Flutiemaniac341:

Difference is that 4th line players like Matheui Darche and fringe defenseman like Ron Hainsey get paid 3 million a year! No one pays to see Ron Hainsey play hockey. Method actors don't get millions per film. Brad Pitt gets paid because ppl want to see him. He has the cache much like Crosby!
I actually think Sidney Crosby is underpaid for what he brings to the NHL!

If u want to talk about fair? How about getting rid of these guaranteed contracts where players like Rick Dipietro get paid 100 million to sit on the bench. How's that fair to the owners! What Allan Eagleson did to them and Clarence Campbell, etc means nothing. Especially to the players of this day and age. If the players had such an appreciation for the sacrifices of those before them much like Erik Cole misplaced words put forth this week. Then, why not ask for a 6 % pension for retired players?? In the very least it would be a great pr move. 47% owners, 47% players, 6% old guard!

...

...

look, it's not ron hainsey's fault if a team offers him a ridiculous contract...

what's he supposed to do?...turn it down?...

same with dipietro...your argument holds water if dipietro went to the islanders management, held a gun to their heads, and said pay me or else...

that didn't happen...

it is absolutely ridiculous to blame players for the spending lunacy of owners, and it is laughable that ownership spends the summer months signing guys to 12 year contracts, then in september locks out the players and says to them, among other things, we need a cap on contract length...

anyone who thinks that makes perfect sense has the IQ of a bag of pucks

josbran PM josbran
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Posted: 11/23/2012 7:20:07 AM
The owners should make one last offer to the players and if they turn it down the owners should shut down the season. If the players want to go play in Europe so be it. Play in Sweden where the players get an average pay of 100k per season. In my opinion all atletes are independent contractors and the only thing the union should be used for is their health benefits and pension plan. Also, no player should get a contract for more than 2 years with an option for a third if the team wants him. All player unions have become to powerful and need to be broken like the NFL did when they used replacement players and Gene Upshaw came begging back to the owners. If I were the owners in the NHL it's time to give the players an ultimatum. Sign on the dotted line or we cancel the season. And if you still want to play hardball maybe the 2013-14 season will be cancelled too.
bk_widows PM bk_widows
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Posted: 11/23/2012 12:09:10 PM

...

the players association has one significant alternative in this dispute...

de-certify, then file anti-trust suit against owners...

that move would force this ridiculous dispute to a head...i mean, cmon, 3 strikes/lockouts/whatever u wanna call it...on their own, these two sides are gonna ruin the game

Flutiemaniac341 PM Flutiemaniac341
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Posted: 11/23/2012 3:59:09 PM
Bk windows,

Of course, it's not Ron Hainsey's fault that he picked up a 3 million dollar deal. Much like it wouldn't be his fault if he won the lottery!

He's lucky that he has a perfect lottery ticket in the NHL. But much like a winning lottery ticket. You have a choice with what to do with the money!

Instead of thinking about me, me, me. The players need to think about the game of hockey! They have an obligation to not a dysfunct union over the years but the game that made them rich!

You just said it! In Ur last post!

Both sides are destroying the game!

Instead of worrying about a pay cut, he needs to worry about his family that has always taken care of him and give back for the greater good. Leave his ego at the door and do what needs to be done despite whatever emotion he may be feeling! His family is the NHL like it or not! The good is the game of hockey. The players are not business men.  They need to stop tryong to overthink themselves. 

Trevor Linden is a businessman! He foresaw the endgame. Trusting a lawyer that has never played the game and holds alterior motives while fighting a fight with very little chips at Ur table is not savy! It's emotional. The players twitter accounts provide all the proof.

They continue to narrow their vision to the last lockout despite the fact that the players ended up with the better deal despite the original prognosis in 2005! 

It's simply, picking and choosing Ur fights and not just dropping Ur gloves on a whim!

 The players are fighting a fight with zero leverage on the basis of what's fair?!

So why not think about not what's in front of you right now but what can be or wont be, should the players hold fort to their "principles"

But again, Ur argument has turned from perspective of an entertainer making millions to character of a player like Ron Hainsey! 

Ur perspective argument that you choose to abandon. For good reason. 

A guy like the late, great, Pete Postlewaite, he wasn't making millions in recent films over the last decade. And, I'd argue his worth to film was a hell of a lot greater than Hainsey to the NHL. And if you want to compare to the nfl. That argument becomes even less it's worth!

So who has the bag of pucks upstairs?! Besides Erik Cole, Shane Doan and Ian White, of course!
LeRinkRat PM LeRinkRat
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Posted: 11/24/2012 3:17:16 PM

A guy like the late, great, Pete Postlewaite, he wasn't making millions in recent films over the last decade. And, I'd argue his worth to film was a hell of a lot greater than Hainsey to the NHL. And if you want to compare to the nfl. That argument becomes even less it's worth!

good argument and true statement to a certain extent BUT I would wager the Postlewaite made BIG bucks even in bit roles after his performance with Daniel Day-Lewis in the 1993 "In the Name of the Father" 

I DO think your overall premise is correct however.

btw, my all time fav Pete Postlewaite short scene is STILL where he is looking for the "alien dog" in Alien 3 and saying "Here Kitty, Kitty Kitty"

spartak PM spartak
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Posted: 11/24/2012 4:20:36 PM
I'm supporting local hockey now had enough of this BS ..............................instead of blowing money on betting on these fu_ks i'm sponsoring local kids hockey.  Real world
Flutiemaniac341 PM Flutiemaniac341
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Posted: 11/25/2012 2:59:11 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by LeRinkRat:

A guy like the late, great, Pete Postlewaite, he wasn't making millions in recent films over the last decade. And, I'd argue his worth to film was a hell of a lot greater than Hainsey to the NHL. And if you want to compare to the nfl. That argument becomes even less it's worth!

good argument and true statement to a certain extent BUT I would wager the Postlewaite made BIG bucks even in bit roles after his performance with Daniel Day-Lewis in the 1993 "In the Name of the Father" 

I DO think your overall premise is correct however.

btw, my all time fav Pete Postlewaite short scene is STILL where he is looking for the "alien dog" in Alien 3 and saying "Here Kitty, Kitty Kitty"


This mess is nothing like 2004-2005. This isn't a philosophical disagreement about a salary cap with the game of hockey in a downward trend of the deadpuck era. This is two sides fighting for an ever growing pie and not being able to share. It's downright pathetic on both sides. IMO the players have to concede because they have zero leverage and the more they cry about it with empty threats like decertification, the worse it will become. It certainly will never get better for them. Whatever they are waiting for, it won't be absolution.
Decertification didn't work for the nfl and with a better alternative as Europe, NHL players are in no position to risk everything and decertify. The courts is a gigantic risk for them. Ego is a funny thing. This is simply business and the players need to stop embarrassing themselves on twitter.
They probably are stubborn enough to decertify otherwise we would be playing hockey right now.
Flutiemaniac341 PM Flutiemaniac341
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Posted: 11/25/2012 3:03:15 AM
This whole situation is just surreal to me. I know how irresponsible NHL players can be from knowing their offseason habits but I really thought someone would have taken charge by now and said enough! The real world has really lost most of these guys!
Flutiemaniac341 PM Flutiemaniac341
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Posted: 11/25/2012 3:20:26 AM
The worst thing about this. The NHL is becoming even more of a punch line in the states! So much so that I think a lot of Canadian hockey fans have become embarrassed to be a fan of this league. Like it or not, the veil has been raised here. After every dumb twitter post these guys become unlikeable and worst of all, fallible. They are supposed to be untouchables. People we look up to, sports is supposed to bring people together and give us an escape.

The biggest mistake of this lockout is ignoring the concept of professional sports as entertainment. That's all it is. The league and it's players have brought real life issues to a sport/religion in Canada. The NHL in my eyes will be tainted for a very long time in many peope's minds. The PR war in the media between both sides is a disservice to everyone.
LeRinkRat PM LeRinkRat
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Posted: 11/26/2012 12:54:13 PM

IMO the players have to concede because they have zero leverage

I will disagree. the NHL players have WAY more OPTIONS of were to play than NFL or MLB players. hockey, like basketball, is an international sport with options outside the United States and Canada esp the KHL in Russia. may not make as much money as in the NHL BUT they are STILL making big bucks for an easier season.

Flutiemaniac341 PM Flutiemaniac341
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Posted: 11/26/2012 11:01:48 PM
I agree rat. That's why I think decertification won't do them any good. They have high paying jobs waiting in Europe! Their plan to collect punitive damages won't work.

But if they plan on playing in the NHL, they must concede. The NHL owners I believe that they ( at least 8 owners ) don't wanna play hockey this year. The year has been tainted. People have already found new routines and new ways to spend their money. This lockout has left a bad taste in people's mouths. So much so that few will spend money this year on tickets. 

This isn't a negotiation, Fehr is absolutely right. The mediator will do nothing and be booted within a week and I fully expect the season to be cancelled within one month!
The offer will not get better.
I'd say we are looking at a mid season start next year. 
FrozenTundra PM FrozenTundra
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Posted: 11/28/2012 2:18:52 AM
Great thread.

I love hockey, every minute of it, but they've lost a fan for several years. I am disgusted by the actions of the players & owners. They are both to blame.  The league is run by morons and the players voted in an idiot to represent the players union.

Once this strike is over, 99% of the fans will forgive & forget & return to hockey like sheep & will spend money on over priced tickets, beer, jersey's, parking & food to watch a team of players who mostly feel "entitled" & at the odd time play with passion & purpose. They won't get my hard earned dollar anymore.

Local hockey is what I'll support moving forward.

NHL & NHL players, from my mouth to your ears - see ya!



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