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[NHL Betting] Topic: Should players be suspended if there was no injury on a play? |
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#1 Posted: 5/8/2012 9:39:41 AM
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Dith |
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#2 Posted: 5/8/2012 9:55:22 AM
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vegasdennis |
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#3 Posted: 5/8/2012 11:11:44 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Dith:
if i want you to kill with a shotgun, but missing the target, would you like me to be judged?
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#4 Posted: 5/8/2012 11:12:20 AM |
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#5 Posted: 5/8/2012 11:19:40 AM |
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#6 Posted: 5/8/2012 11:39:27 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Allbutbroke:
Kudos to the the NHL for having the balls to suspend a star player for targeting the head. If it was consistent I would agree. When you pick and choose it's not called ballsy it's called cowardly.
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#7 Posted: 5/8/2012 11:41:12 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Dith:
if i want you to kill with a shotgun, but missing the target, would you like me to be judged?
I agree with you but bad analogy. They are judged differently, different charges and different sentences. 
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#8 Posted: 5/8/2012 11:54:54 AM
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wiggins |
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#9 Posted: 5/8/2012 12:12:01 PM
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#10 Posted: 5/8/2012 12:55:00 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by wiggins:
Injury should have zero impact on the decision to suspend a player.
I've been saying this for years and would take it even further. Double minors should not be based on how injured the player was. Last night it looked pretty silly when NY drew a double minor and the player was allowed to stay in the game; just seems counter intuitive. |
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#11 Posted: 5/8/2012 1:04:31 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Polar_Bear:
If it was consistent I would agree. When you pick and choose it's not called ballsy it's called cowardly.
I have great respect you but beg to differ on this one. Agreed, consistency is an issue but labelling this situation as cowardly is just plain wrong. |
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#12 Posted: 5/8/2012 1:10:52 PM  |
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#13 Posted: 5/8/2012 1:17:16 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by wiggins:
Injury should have zero impact on the decision to suspend a player.
We are going to let a guy off the hook because the guy he hit was an inch away from being paralyzed and got lucky?
Horrible.
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#14 Posted: 5/8/2012 4:39:34 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Allbutbroke:
I have great respect you but beg to differ on this one. Agreed, consistency is an issue but labelling this situation as cowardly is just plain wrong. You're not getting what I'm saying. I was not referring to this suspension alone. I'm fine, if they want to hand him the one game suspension, but don't try and tell me it shows balls to suspend a player who's arena and fan base will remain full and intact regardless of the suspension.
Balls is suspending Shea Weber in a market where where such a move could cost them fans and fools in the seats, and therefore dollars. THAT is ballsy.
Not having the balls to do one because it will probably cost you, yet choosing to do it to the player who's market will not be affected and therefore your business will not be affected is nothing but shady and cowardly.
There are many other examples these playoffs to use but I chose to use Weber as he is a star player and committed at least as bad of an act, worse imo.
The two Kings that extended their arms and drove the heads of the Blues players into the end boards with not so much as a friggin 5 minute major??? Pietrangelo is the Blues best defenseman and was knocked out of the series by the one blatant hit from behind, by an unskilled goon no less in Dwight King. They were not reprimanded because they play for TEAM HOLLYWOOD, and as Luc Robitaille has already publicly stated the calls are coming in again from big time hollywood celebrities for Kings tickets, and bars are full all over the city with people gathering around watching Kings games again. See in places like Philly the bars are always full with people watching the games, wether they are going to the Cup or not, so from a business stand point who cares.
The NHL is gutless and continues to make a complete joke out of itself.
They have been doing this since Gary Bettmans first year as Commissioner when Kerry Fraser from 5 feet away chose to ignore Wayne Gretzky dragging his stick up the face of Doug Gilmour drawing lots of blood for all to see, and no penalty at all. A penalty would have basically ended the game and forced a final between Toronto and Montreal which not a soul in America would have watched. The Sharks had just spent their first season in San Jose, The Ducks were just given the ok to start their new franchise the following season and the Mighty Ducks movie was a major hit earlier that season, so California was a major game plan for the NHL at the time. Bruce Mcnall owned the Kings (later went to prison) and all the celebrities were attending Kings games. Fraser to this day says he missed the call. I have the video of the game which shows him looking right at the play as it happened, he CHOSE not to call it. But why.
I LOVE the game as I grew up playing and watching it religiously, but at the risk of offending some people I like a great deal here, the more America got it's grip on hockey the more it lost it's purity. When David Sterns little pupil Gary Bettman was appointed to run things, the game began being dragged through a valley of human feces the likes of which I never could have imagined..
We all see things differently. There are billions of dollars at stake in these sports industries, that extend to arenas, property value, beverages, food, merchandise, hotels, restaurants and tv revenues which need to be kept alive and thriving in markets they are dying in, that's just business 101.
We got hard proof (as far as I`m concerned) in the NBA (David Stern, Bettmans mentor), that refs were influenced to call games and series, and meetings addressing that were held before certain big games and series.
The Phoenix Coyotes have score`d 3 goals these playoffs with too many men on the ice, a two referee system and two linesmen miss that. That`s a tad strange to me and if they are that incompetent why are they allowed to remain employed, and being given big important games to work no less. If I fucked up at my work like that I`d be fired, I certainly would not be given more important jobs to do.
I`ll keep watching, but I don`t watch near as much as I used to. But I will follow my team and some others. After watching and playing a game your whole life it`s hard not too. The truth is, I wish I could. As a fan and hockey player I have zero respect for Gary Bettman or the NHL. But I love the game of hockey itself so I watch in awe as they run their business around it.
Thanks for the respect, it is returned in kind.
I don`t mind if others see it differently but nobody is changing my mind about this garage league.
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Allbutbroke |
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#15 Posted: 5/8/2012 4:54:50 PM Do you really think suspending Weber (wish they had cause he was totally classless) would affect fan attendance during the playoffs? I have been searching online to fly my son to a game and tickets at any venue are pretty much impossible to get unless you want to pay wild behind prices.
I don't think suspending any player during the playoffs is going to impact negatively on sales - even in garbage markets. Regular season - different kettle of fish. |
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#16 Posted: 5/8/2012 5:44:27 PM
I know it`s hard to grasp here in Canada but even in many of these cities in the States where hockey is deeply embedded, the sport is always out on a limb. Whoever thought they would stop supporting hockey in Minnesota to the point of franchise failure. That is a hockey kingdom in the States, and they even played in two Cup Finals. Pittsburgh would have lost the Penguins years back had they not miraculously won the lottery, and selected with it Mario Lemieux, and became winners, and went and won two Stanley Cups. They were right on the verge of failure with empty arenas night after night. The list goes on. If those places could so easily lose fans then I`m sure you can use your own imagination with Nashville of all places. Dallas is next, that arena is empty every single night, and I mean empty. Did you watch any of the games in Dallas this year. It`s sad, and that`s the old North Stars who will be on the move yet again. That`s a team that won the Cup in Dallas too. Very Sad. Atlanta had a team twice and failed twice because they did not win enough, fast enough.
If the teams in these markets do not have enough success, fast enough then they will just join, Oakland, Kansas City, Cleveland, Colorado, Atlanta, Minnesota, Hartford and Atlanta again on a list of NHL failures due to lack of enough playoff success.
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#17 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:04:18 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Polar_Bear:
If it was consistent I would agree. When you pick and choose it's not called ballsy it's called cowardly.
Polar_Bear what you have said is excactly what makes me sick! No I dont like head shots, i think there is no reason for any player to target the head. Yet Shanahan has been all over the board on his suspensions and reasons for them. Example Kesla gets a game for hitting from behind yet King does the exact same hit to Alex Pietranglo no suspesion. Weber doesnt get a game for smashing a players head into the glass no suspension. Now back to Giroux no history of of being a dirty player is there, has he been suspended or even fined for any type of head shots i dont recall he has. Zubrus yes hit to the head look at the size difference if you watch the play Giroux was just looking to hit Zubrus he didnt go just to hit he head it was hit first not head first thats my problem with the suspension. I say a fine was in order at most not 1 game Zubrus didnt miss a shift ond looked still okay to me the whole 3rd. Shanahan has become a PUPPET for Bettman if Shanahan wanted to fix the game take the stupid instagater penalty out watch how guys are accountable for the there actions see how things change in the NHL! Guys will think twice because someone can come after them without getting the instagater thats how you protect players not with these dumb fines and suspensions. |
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#18 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:12:09 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Polar_Bear: You're not getting what I'm saying. I was not referring to this suspension alone. I'm fine, if they want to hand him the one game suspension, but don't try and tell me it shows balls to suspend a player who's arena and fan base will remain full and intact regardless of the suspension. EDITED TO SAVE SPACE
You clearly don't know the history of the NHL if you think this type of treatment is new - or has somehow destroyed the purity of the game. The English management of the NHL treated the Montreal Canadiens and their french players like second class citizens for the first 50 years of the NHL. Clarence Campbell (who many people revere, but who was a racist scumbag as history shows us) had two sets of rules. One for the Canadiens, that declared that if you injured or attempted in injure an opponent, you got the book thrown at you (and we're not just talking about Richard's lengthy suspension that led to the Richard Riots, Boom Boom Geoffrion was also suspended for a hit that many Boston Bruins, Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings got away with on a nightly basis) and one for players who injured or attempted to injure Montreal Players, which involved no penalty or fine.
Of course, there was NO suspension when Beliveau was deliberately injured by Bill Mosienko of the Blackhawks. Or to Gordie Howe when he came within a cm of knocking out Dollard St. Laurent's eye and on and on...
Look, the NHL has always had two sets of rules. Perhaps because your team benefited from them until recently, you failed to realize this. So I've educated you...
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#19 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:22:54 PM  ...
they are playing and officiating and legislating a game with which i am no longer familiar...
im tellin u if ol numbah 9 played today they would have to redefine the gordie howe hat-trick: a goal an assist and a suspension...
gordie scored 1,000 goals and i bet his elbows delivered twice as many concussions
  
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#20 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:36:56 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Polar_Bear:
The suspension itself probably not. Missing their all world defenseman for their series and tipping the advantage in favor of Detroit, who then knock them out in the first round, yes, I very much feel that could cost them some of those fair weather fans down there and perhaps ultimately the entire franchise. Compare what I say with a few of the American examples below
I know it`s hard to grasp here in Canada but even in many of these cities in the States where hockey is deeply embedded, the sport is always out on a limb. Whoever thought they would stop supporting hockey in Minnesota to the point of franchise failure. That is a hockey kingdom in the States, and they even played in two Cup Finals. Pittsburgh would have lost the Penguins years back had they not miraculously won the lottery, and selected with it Mario Lemieux, and became winners, and went and won two Stanley Cups. They were right on the verge of failure with empty arenas night after night. The list goes on. If those places could so easily lose fans then I`m sure you can use your own imagination with Nashville of all places. Dallas is next, that arena is empty every single night, and I mean empty. Did you watch any of the games in Dallas this year. It`s sad, and that`s the old North Stars who will be on the move yet again. That`s a team that won the Cup in Dallas too. Very Sad. Atlanta had a team twice and failed twice because they did not win enough, fast enough.
If the teams in these markets do not have enough success, fast enough then they will just join, Oakland, Kansas City, Cleveland, Colorado, Atlanta, Minnesota, Hartford and Atlanta again on a list of NHL failures due to lack of enough playoff success.
Defintely enjoying this thread.........sadly, I have no doubt that the list of failing markets will grow.
Enjoy the rest of the playoffs. |
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#21 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:37:18 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by _keyser_soze_:
You clearly don't know the history of the NHL if you think this type of treatment is new - or has somehow destroyed the purity of the game. The English management of the NHL treated the Montreal Canadiens and their french players like second class citizens for the first 50 years of the NHL. Clarence Campbell (who many people revere, but who was a racist scumbag as history shows us) had two sets of rules. One for the Canadiens, that declared that if you injured or attempted in injure an opponent, you got the book thrown at you (and we're not just talking about Richard's lengthy suspension that led to the Richard Riots, Boom Boom Geoffrion was also suspended for a hit that many Boston Bruins, Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings got away with on a nightly basis) and one for players who injured or attempted to injure Montreal Players, which involved no penalty or fine.
Of course, there was NO suspension when Beliveau was deliberately injured by Bill Mosienko of the Blackhawks. Or to Gordie Howe when he came within a cm of knocking out Dollard St. Laurent's eye and on and on...
Look, the NHL has always had two sets of rules. Perhaps because your team benefited from them until recently, you failed to realize this. So I've educated you...
I`m well aware of the history of the league. And I will disagree with you. I don`t need any educational lessons from you thanks. And yes I know the Flyers have been the darlings of the NHL for years and years lol.
Perhaps you meant he was a culturally biased scumbag seeing as there was no other race of people involved in your equation.
Richards and Geoffrion were two of the dirtiest hockey players to ever lace up skates. I have no issue with that either but don`t try painting them in any other way, they got punished but also got away with a ton of dirty crap. Mark Messier was also one of the filthiest players to ever play the game, he tried to end players careers on a nightly basis. I have no issue with Messier either.
The game was different in all those eras so comparing them is just foolish.
What I was saying was not about the Flyers that is just the topic and therefore part of the example within this thread. The Flyers can get calls too, should it suit the league from a business stand point. And yes if it ever served the leagues purpose in the 50`s they would have done the same thing. Business is business that was the whole point in my response.
But please don`t try and compare a business that had 6 teams, with 4 being American, without television and a ton of other business being as involved in it, to a modern one in much different times that tries to carry up to 30 teams. Many of which reside in cities that could give a garbage about the game of hockey, and are completely uneducated on it. The economic dynamics of the different eras are not even in the same financial universe.
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#22 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:42:30 PM
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#23 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:42:57 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Sportsbook_com:
With so many suspensions flying around with the latest being the Claude Giroux 1 game ban, I want to know do you guys feel there should be suspensions and bans if the player on the receiving end of the hit was not injured?
For sure. Whether or not a player is injured is not the point. The point is whether or not the "act" is one that warrants a suspension. If a player swings his stick across the head of an opponent, baseball bat style (for example) the suspension should be the same whether or not the player was able to play the next shift or whether or not it ended his career. The "act" is what should warrant the suspension, not the result of that act. |
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#24 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:45:58 PM Bet-man... Bet-man... Bet-man... (get it yet?) 
It's All About The Money... and always has been. |
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#25 Posted: 5/8/2012 6:50:04 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by thornton6:
Polar_Bear what you have said is excactly what makes me sick! No I dont like head shots, i think there is no reason for any player to target the head. Yet Shanahan has been all over the board on his suspensions and reasons for them. Example Kesla gets a game for hitting from behind yet King does the exact same hit to Alex Pietranglo no suspesion. Weber doesnt get a game for smashing a players head into the glass no suspension. Now back to Giroux no history of of being a dirty player is there, has he been suspended or even fined for any type of head shots i dont recall he has. Zubrus yes hit to the head look at the size difference if you watch the play Giroux was just looking to hit Zubrus he didnt go just to hit he head it was hit first not head first thats my problem with the suspension. I say a fine was in order at most not 1 game Zubrus didnt miss a shift ond looked still okay to me the whole 3rd. Shanahan has become a PUPPET for Bettman if Shanahan wanted to fix the game take the stupid instagater penalty out watch how guys are accountable for the there actions see how things change in the NHL! Guys will think twice because someone can come after them without getting the instagater thats how you protect players not with these dumb fines and suspensions. Taking the instigator was just one shining example of how things are even more controlled under Bettman then they have ever been. Way more players have been seriously injured since he took over than back in the day like Keyser speaks of when Rocket Richard who was a big tough man, would just go smack you in your head if you took runs at him, or someone else would do it.
Taking the instigator rule out was the new NHL`s first big step towards taking total control of the game away from the players and putting it into the hands of their own officials. It has not stopped injuries, in fact they have increased, no players like the rule and most fans hate it. So why does it remain in place. The answer is to better control the game and it`s players, the way they see fit.
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