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sorry to do this...is LeBron...?

Forum: NBA Betting
Author: [NBA Betting] Topic: sorry to do this...is LeBron...?
CHANGCHANG PM CHANGCHANG
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Posted: 4/21/2017 2:00:09 AM
G.O.A.T ?

i'm 40...grew up watching MJ. 

If someone who is in mid 20's argues with me about who is more great? i can't really argue. 

some points i can make is LBJ disappeared in some big moments and he has lost few finals that's it...

p.s is tonight's performance better than his dominance vs Detroit few years back?
rod_steel PM rod_steel
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Posted: 4/21/2017 2:05:23 AM
If he beats this current Warriors team then it's hard to argue
CHANGCHANG PM CHANGCHANG
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Posted: 4/21/2017 2:08:23 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by plays4all:

sorry for all the posts, taking a break in a minute. I just want to say I do like Lebron better than Jordan.

hey no worries, eventho we disagree, may i ask your age bracket? under 30? under 25 under 20? 
CHANGCHANG PM CHANGCHANG
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Posted: 4/21/2017 2:10:33 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by rod_steel:

If he beats this current Warriors team then it's hard to argue

yeah...i want healthy Durant GS team. in fact both teams to be 100% 
begginerboy PM begginerboy
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Posted: 4/21/2017 2:17:25 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by CHANGCHANG:

G.O.A.T ?

i'm 40...grew up watching MJ. 

If someone who is in mid 20's argues with me about who is more great? i can't really argue. 

some points i can make is LBJ disappeared in some big moments and he has lost few finals that's it...

p.s is tonight's performance better than his dominance vs Detroit few years back?

I don't think he is as good as MJ, but if he beats this Warrior team then I have to rethink things.
composite PM composite
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Posted: 4/21/2017 2:18:46 AM
Lebron is easily the GOAT. Jordan doesn't even come close.

What happened when Jordan left? The Bulls nearly won it all.  In '94 the Jordan-less Bulls won 54 games. They lost G5 in the EC Semis to NY Knicks on one of the worst calls in NBA history.  They'd lose the series in 7 games. Those Knicks went to the Finals where they lost to Houston in 7.

Would the Bulls have won the Finals if they won G5? Who knows. But they were at least competitive.

Contrast that with Lebron when he left the Cavaliers.  And then left the Heat. They were instantly a lotto team.  Both teams were a shred of their former competitiveness.

What about the new team? Instant NBA championship contenders.  

Wanna see what Jordan was like when he didn't have a HOF coach and all-star level teammates? Watch the pre-90s Bulls or the post-90s Wizards.   
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Posted: 4/21/2017 4:31:30 AM
awright22 PM awright22
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:10:05 AM
You guys are funny with this Lebron "goat" idea. I will say this, he has the greatest physical "tools of all time" but not skills. He struggles at free throws and shooting from deep, consistently. Anytime I. WR against he Cavs and it's a tight game, I pray they foul Lebron in the closing seconds. He is a sure 1-2 or 0-2, he actually did a 0-2 last night in the closing seconds, Pacers just couldn't capitalize. But to me, what he truly lacks is the mentality that it takes to be the GOAT. Hell, I'd take Kobe over him. Not to mention MJ. Goats have a do or die mentality, and they have it all the time. For example, it's the closing minute of the game last night and the Cavs run a pick and roll with LJ rolling to the basket for an easy dunk/layup. He catches the ball in the lane, with no one there to contest him, and kicks it out to Korver, a bad pass I might add because the ball slipped out of his hand on the pass and was almost a turnover, for a 3 pointer that he hits. Now, if Korver misses that shot the Cavs backers would've been ripping LJ. What mentality passes that ball back out?? Surely not a GOAT! 
awright22 PM awright22
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:11:14 AM
That's should be "bet" and not "WR"
thorpe PM thorpe
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:19:58 AM
It's a different game now that you can't hand-check a player with the ball + flagrant fouls.  Jordan would be completely unstoppable nowadays.  And forget about stopping Wilt.  
bobmaloogatimesfive PM bobmaloogatimesfive
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:26:53 AM
GOAT
tito40 PM tito40
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:57:55 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by thorpe:

It's a different game now that you can't hand-check a player with the ball + flagrant fouls.  Jordan would be completely unstoppable nowadays.  And forget about stopping Wilt.  


exactly. They actually played defense back when MJ played.

i've never seen someone will their team to victory the way MJ did. Lebron is great, but not the goat...
tito40 PM tito40
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:59:16 AM
And for the poster that said Steph Curry is the greatest of all time?

Was that a joke?
Crashdavis565 PM Crashdavis565
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Posted: 4/21/2017 10:06:53 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by composite:

Lebron is easily the GOAT. Jordan doesn't even come close.

What happened when Jordan left? The Bulls nearly won it all.  In '94 the Jordan-less Bulls won 54 games. They lost G5 in the EC Semis to NY Knicks on one of the worst calls in NBA history.  They'd lose the series in 7 games. Those Knicks went to the Finals where they lost to Houston in 7.

Would the Bulls have won the Finals if they won G5? Who knows. But they were at least competitive.

Contrast that with Lebron when he left the Cavaliers.  And then left the Heat. They were instantly a lotto team.  Both teams were a shred of their former competitiveness.

What about the new team? Instant NBA championship contenders.  

Wanna see what Jordan was like when he didn't have a HOF coach and all-star level teammates? Watch the pre-90s Bulls or the post-90s Wizards.   

Good post and insight!
Thanks for sharing, I never thought of this.
Crashdavis565 PM Crashdavis565
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Posted: 4/21/2017 10:10:51 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by awright22:

You guys are funny with this Lebron "goat" idea. I will say this, he has the
greatest physical "tools of all time" but not skills. He struggles at free throws and shooting from deep, consistently. Anytime I. WR against he Cavs and it's a tight game, I pray they foul Lebron in the closing seconds. He is a sure 1-2 or 0-2, he actually did a 0-2 last night in the closing seconds, Pacers just couldn't capitalize. But to me, what he truly lacks is the mentality that it takes to be the GOAT. Hell, I'd take Kobe over him. Not to mention MJ. Goats have a do or die mentality, and they have it all the time. For example, it's the closing minute of the game last night and the Cavs run a pick and roll with LJ rolling to the basket for an easy dunk/layup. He catches the ball in the lane, with no one there to contest him, and kicks it out to Korver, a bad pass I might add because the ball slipped out of his hand on the pass and was almost a turnover, for a 3 pointer that he hits. Now, if Korver misses that shot the Cavs backers would've been ripping LJ. What mentality passes that ball back out?? Surely not a GOAT! 

To me this is the key. To compare players today versus players of 30 years ago is pointless. The game today, has WAY  better athletes. Stronger, bigger and better conditioned. They train hard year round and it is a 24-7 job for many of them.

Many will argue with me but to me MJ today would be only "very good" and a borderline all star.

I feel this is true across all sports too, athletes today are just much better than they used to be.

awright22 PM awright22
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Posted: 4/21/2017 10:40:03 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:


To me this is the key. To compare players today versus players of 30 years ago is pointless. The game today, has WAY  better athletes. Stronger, bigger and better conditioned. They train hard year round and it is a 24-7 job for many of them.

Many will argue with me but to me MJ today would be only "very good" and a borderline all star.

I feel this is true across all sports too, athletes today are just much better than they used to be.

I wouldn't go that far. From the late 80's into the early 00's there isn't any drop off in talent or size, etc. Lebron is a different animal for his time but so was Magic for his time. Dennis Rodman in his prime would lock up Lebron! I'd pay good money to put that match-up in a time machine. To beat that Detroit team of the early 90's required major heart!! It you didn't have that, no need to apply. 

And as far as MJ being only "very good" if he played now, I'd be scratching my head until my nails fall off trying to understand this thought process. No way you can honestly believe that. 

Hollywood07 PM Hollywood07
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Posted: 4/21/2017 10:46:45 AM
32. No hes not. He's very very great but it's a completely different game than it used to be man. Jordan did it in the most physical era in basketball history. Lebron physically is more of a freak than Mike no doubt but his clutch, competitiveness and the fact Jordan never lost in the finals should be enough to win the arguement. Lebron will break his all time playoff point record but it will take him like 200 more games to do it. If you need one more reason how about the fade away move mj patented.. it's unstoppable
StumpTownStu PM StumpTownStu
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Posted: 4/21/2017 12:59:48 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by composite:

Lebron is easily the GOAT. Jordan doesn't even come close.

What happened when Jordan left? The Bulls nearly won it all.  In '94 the Jordan-less Bulls won 54 games. They lost G5 in the EC Semis to NY Knicks on one of the worst calls in NBA history.  They'd lose the series in 7 games. Those Knicks went to the Finals where they lost to Houston in 7.

Would the Bulls have won the Finals if they won G5? Who knows. But they were at least competitive.

Contrast that with Lebron when he left the Cavaliers.  And then left the Heat. They were instantly a lotto team.  Both teams were a shred of their former competitiveness.

What about the new team? Instant NBA championship contenders.  

Wanna see what Jordan was like when he didn't have a HOF coach and all-star level teammates? Watch the pre-90s Bulls or the post-90s Wizards.   
You're an idiot and your points are unfounded. Name one player(or team of a player) that isn't good early in said players career or late when he is old and washed.
With that said, I still give the edge to Jordan. He's a better on the ball defender and he's more clutch. Lebron is closing the gap though and you could make valid points for either one. They're two different players, from two different eras, and either one could be considered GOAT at this point. And I used to be a staunch Lebron critic. The thing I appreciate about Lebron that I haven't seen in any other player since Jordan except Kobe is that he works hard at being the best. That's why I have grown to appreciate him. All those people who say, "he's just bigger and stronger, blah, blah, blah." are way off. The guy works harder than everyone else. Like I said, I still give Jordan the edge but it's a 1A, 1B kind of thing. 
StumpTownStu PM StumpTownStu
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:07:48 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Crashdavis565:


To me this is the key. To compare players today versus players of 30 years ago is pointless. The game today, has WAY  better athletes. Stronger, bigger and better conditioned. They train hard year round and it is a 24-7 job for many of them.

Many will argue with me but to me MJ today would be only "very good" and a borderline all star.

I feel this is true across all sports too, athletes today are just much better than they used to be.

Only very good? He's basically a better Kobe Bryant. Is Kobe only very good or one of the greatest players of the era. In todays NBA Jordan would get over 10 points a night just on FTs. And not by flopping on 3s like Harden, by getting to the rim.
DeflateThis PM DeflateThis
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:10:35 PM
Someone mentioning Curry is the goat is probably the funniest thing I've heard month. The greatest shooter of all time? Perhaps. Certainly not the best overall player though.
Posted using a mobile device.
StumpTownStu PM StumpTownStu
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:24:02 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DeflateThis:

Someone mentioning Curry is the goat is probably the funniest thing I've heard month. The greatest shooter of all time? Perhaps. Certainly not the best overall player though.
I'm a Warriors homer and even I think this is ridiculous. Best 3pt shooter though.
JeffFromFuture PM JeffFromFuture
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:51:42 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by CHANGCHANG:

G.O.A.T ?

i'm 40...grew up watching MJ. 

If someone who is in mid 20's argues with me about who is more great? i can't really argue. 

some points i can make is LBJ disappeared in some big moments and he has lost few finals that's it...

p.s is tonight's performance better than his dominance vs Detroit few years back?
he will have more points than MJ in playoffs...is he better? No.
composite PM composite
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:52:46 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by StumpTownStu:

You're an idiot and your points are unfounded. Name one player(or team of a player) that isn't good early in said players career or late when he is old and washed.
With that said, I still give the edge to Jordan. He's a better on the ball defender and he's more clutch. Lebron is closing the gap though and you could make valid points for either one. They're two different players, from two different eras, and either one could be considered GOAT at this point. And I used to be a staunch Lebron critic. The thing I appreciate about Lebron that I haven't seen in any other player since Jordan except Kobe is that he works hard at being the best. That's why I have grown to appreciate him. All those people who say, "he's just bigger and stronger, blah, blah, blah." are way off. The guy works harder than everyone else. Like I said, I still give Jordan the edge but it's a 1A, 1B kind of thing. 

Good early?  Jordan couldn't get to the Finals until he was 28.  Well into his prime.  Lebron got there at 23. 

And nice of you to ignore the fact that the Bulls were NBA Finals contenders without Jordan. While the Cavs and Heat were lottery teams without Lebron.
JeffFromFuture PM JeffFromFuture
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Posted: 4/21/2017 1:53:51 PM
problem with the question is...everything is relative...i dont think players were nearly as good as today...defense and offense is better...question is....do i think he could beat MJ in one on one in their prime...that is a good question. I would say because lebron is built bigger he would win that street ball battle.
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