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[NBA Betting] Topic: Would Kobe have carried Charlotte if he was stuck there like how LBJ did with the Cavaliers??? |
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iluvmyJs |
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#1 Posted: 6/30/2012 3:51:28 PM
I really don't get it why people are hating Bron coz he sidnt win the championship in Cleveland when it was too obvious that team lacks a 2nd consistent scorer. Cmon, even superman needs help. He stuck with the team to finish his contract with the Cavs and never did he whine about getting him "this and "that" player to play with him. He utilized what he had very well thus the amazing win/loss record.
Now tell me, would Kobe have carried Charlotte like Bron did with the Cavaliers??? Kobe being traded to L.A. was a gift coz it was the same year that Shaq at his prime got traded to the Lakers plus "the others" who were at best at what they do. Lets not neglect this FACT that Kobe's 3 rings was won more by Shaq than him. I'll give him his 2 other rings buy lets us not forget once again that he had Bynum and Gasol at his prime and another set of "others" who gets the job done.
Even the G.O.A.T. MJ was 1-9 in playoff records before Pippen came in Chi-town. Chicago and L.A. was a big city compared to Cleveland for a Superstar to stay there or for another Star "at his prime" to go there. Thanks to Lebron he finished his contract there and gave his everything. But he was not that stupid to know that it aint happening in Cleveland so he chose to move in Miami. And for those who say that its Dwade's team, well it was Lebrons team from the get-go. It was passed to him. He owns Miami and that doesnt happen often for players who transfers to another team. Pretty amazing if you ask me. He's now at his prime and I could only hope the best for him onwards.
Again, somebody please tell me??? And please be objective with ur statements. Im not a kobe hater, I respect his game but the credit he is getting is totally exaggerated while Lebron's hate is totally blown out of proportion. |
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ct1016 |
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#2 Posted: 6/30/2012 4:46:31 PM 
Well said...I don't get it either....the media has written the narrative that the best player on the team is the reason the team got the ring....but what they are not saying is ....those were some good TEAMS that were winning the titles
All teams have a great player,,,but all great players are not on a good or BEST team
Kobe has been fortunate to play with some good (and great) teammates......LBJ had to leave cleveland to give himself a shot against these better teams |
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Mad_Skillz123 |
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#3 Posted: 6/30/2012 6:11:52 PM  LeBrick fans....
No LBJ didnt had anyone on that team...No Mo Williams ( all star those years ), No Shaq....no Jamison....no Ilgauskas...No Delonte West....no JJ Hickson....absolutely noone!!!
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nikon |
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#4 Posted: 6/30/2012 6:18:20 PM
if you look at it now then yes it was a gift for lakers to get kobe. but then again nobody knew he was going to be good. and at that time it was a big gamble to have a kid straight out of high school. not a lot of manager would take that kind of risk back then.
no doubt bron is good. i think a lot of people hate on him cuz the way he acts and carry himself. calling himself the king. must have a big ego to claim something like that. had to broadcast himself on espn live just to make his decision to leave or stay. and he really fucked over the cavs. when the cavs could of gotten something in return if they knew. and recently being a big time flopper in the playoffs.
being in a team with 2 other superstars...its pretty much given to win a ring. especially on a weak conference. and i have a feeling this off season another star will join them. which willl hurt james even more if they win another ring. cuz people will say he needed all these superstars to win.
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KobezKing |
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#5 Posted: 7/1/2012 12:00:02 AM
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iluvmyJs |
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#6 Posted: 7/1/2012 2:45:27 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Mad_Skillz123: LeBrick fans.... No LBJ didnt had anyone on that team...No Mo Williams ( all star those years ), No Shaq....no Jamison....no Ilgauskas...No Delonte West....no JJ Hickson....absolutely noone!!!
He had his team mates that he made better. Shaq past his PRIME? You blind, or just stupid to read? Shaq's time with kobe was way way better than Shaq's time with LBJ. Shaq won 3 rings for kobe. Thats a fact. You are a big time hater, I dont even hate on kobe, I said I respect his game but you are not being objective with how you look at it. |
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iluvmyJs |
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#7 Posted: 7/1/2012 3:04:32 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by nikon:
i think it kinda help lebron playing on the east. the east conference compared to the west is pretty weak. we'll never know if kobe could of carried charlotte like bron did for cavs.
if you look at it now then yes it was a gift for lakers to get kobe. but then again nobody knew he was going to be good. and at that time it was a big gamble to have a kid straight out of high school. not a lot of manager would take that kind of risk back then.
no doubt bron is good. i think a lot of people hate on him cuz the way he acts and carry himself. calling himself the king. must have a big ego to claim something like that. had to broadcast himself on espn live just to make his decision to leave or stay. and he really fucked over the cavs. when the cavs could of gotten something in return if they knew. and recently being a big time flopper in the playoffs.
being in a team with 2 other superstars...its pretty much given to win a ring. especially on a weak conference. and i have a feeling this off season another star will join them. which willl hurt james even more if they win another ring. cuz people will say he needed all these superstars to win.
West was always been an offensive force in the nba but saying the east is weak is not appropriate because DEFENSE is what the East teams brings to the table.
I never said Kobe was a gif to the Lakers. What I said was it was a gift FOR KOBE to be traded to Lakers on his rookie year coz he had SHAQ and very good role players. Plus Phil Jackson coached them. Shaq was the most dominant player at that time. Kobe didn't even won rookie of the year.... Kobe is a superstar but he can't carry a team alone, same thing with Lebron. Kobe had a better timing of having the best players at their prime Lebron did not. Plus, Kobe was always paired with a 7 footer superstar all his championship years. Lebron never had that. Again Shaq was past his prime when he played in Cavs.
Bron in Miami had the same output with his points, rebounds and assists or better. So why would you say he made it easy for himself? If he had made it the easy way then we shoudl've seen his numbers go down.
The Decision I agree was mishandled. They couldve done it way better than that. Maybe coz they were really excited about it and got carried away. Lebron and other superstars are all alpha dogs and they wont be superstars like that if they arent. Lebron is a very outgoing guy who likes to party and garbage while Kobe is the introvert type. That is just who they are. Lets not create a perfect description of a baller because no one is. As I've said always be objective with everything. |
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3BallBomber |
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#8 Posted: 7/1/2012 3:25:31 AM
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#9 Posted: 7/1/2012 3:36:06 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by KobezKing:
hahahahaha this dude really just compared cavs squad wit lebron to bobcats squad the worst team in nba history.. Mo williams Delonte west, varejo, gooden, jamison, hickson, shaqq, illgaukis all well above average nba players with some all stars i love how lebron fans are. Kobe didnt carry lakers wen shaq left cuz his team was 10 times worse than lebrons cavs teams.
2002-2003 season before Lebron came the Cavs earned the 3rd worst record in franchise history (17wins-65losses) and tied the last place in NBA that season. So yeah its pretty much like the boncats, you said it right.
Having read ur last sentence, are you friggin kidding me??? After Lakers 3peat '00-'02 did you know the 2003-2004 Lakers roster? Kobe, Fisher, Fox, George, H. Grant, Malone, Shaq, Payton, Bryon Russell. ----> this is friggin a million times better!!!
Post Shaq 04-05 season Kobe, Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, Divac, Atkins, Mihm, George
05-06 season Kobe, Odom, Smush Parker, Mihm, Kwame, George, Vujacic, Bynum, Turiaf, Jim Jackson, Vin Wafer, Aaron Mckie
06-07 season Kobe, Odom, Parker, Walton, Bynum, Turiaf, Radmanovic, Maurice Evans, Kwame, Farmar, Vujacic, Mckie
07-08 season Kobe, Odom, Fisher, Farmar, Vujacic, Radmanovic, Walton, Turiaf, Gasol, Bynum, Ariza, Kwame, Mihm, Mbenga, Evans, Newble
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iluvmyJs |
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#10 Posted: 7/1/2012 3:57:16 AM Lebron, Ilgauskas, Gooden, McInnis, Newble, Traylor, Snow, Pavlovic, Verajao, Wagner, Diop
05-06 season (entered playoffs) Lebron, Z, Gooden, Marshall, Hughes, D. Jones, Snow, R. Murray, Pavlovic, Verajao, Alan Henderson, Luke Jackson, Newble, Stepen Graham, Wilks
06-07 season (entered NBA Finals) Lebron, Hughes, Z, Gooden, Pavlovic, Marshall, Verajao, Damon Jones, Snow, Gibson, S. Brown, David Wesley, Newble, Pollard, Dwawyne Jones.
07-08 season (playoffs again) Lebron, Z, Devin Brown, Gooden, Hughes, Damon Jones, Pavlovic, Verajao, Delonte, Joe Smith, Szczerbiak, Newble, Brown, B. Wallace, Jones, Marshall, Snow, Dickens, Allred, Dickens
08-09 season (reached Finals again) Lebron, Mo, Z, Delonte, Verajao, Gibson, Szczerbiak, Pavlovic, Hickson, Wallace, Smith, Kinsey, Lorenzen Wright, Jawad Williams, Trey Johnson
09-10 season (eastern conference finals) Lebron, Mo, Hickson, Verajao, Shaq, Parker, Delonte, Z, Jamison, Gibson, Moon, Powe, D. Green, Telfair,
Tell me If this roster was better... The stars here were all banged up by the time they played with Lebron, and some were just very young immature rookies, siphomores and juniors.
And the cavs dis not have a Phil Jackson caliber of a coach.
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#11 Posted: 7/1/2012 4:03:04 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by 3BallBomber:
omfg @ Lebron fans making hypothetical scenarios. he won a ring why continue to try and prove points. you're only making it worse haha.
You are not making it worse when you state facts objectively. Thats is the thing, a lot of dumbass haters are bitter about Lebron's ring. Very subjective opinions are just stupid.
Im proving a point coz some just dont know basketball or are just effin blind about the truth. |
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#12 Posted: 7/1/2012 5:35:17 AM 
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#13 Posted: 7/1/2012 5:35:45 AM 
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#14 Posted: 7/1/2012 5:51:20 AM
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ct1016 |
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#15 Posted: 7/1/2012 8:55:17 AM NBA players intensity and competition level even the way the referees call the games are different in the post season vs regular season.....everyone knows this.
In my opinion, some teams are built for regular season success and some teams are built for championships....and it has nothing to do with is your 'all-star' clutch...wants it more...mentally tough....etc...etc..etc...
The bottom line with those cavs teams is that noone on those teams other than LBJ could get their own shot....run pick and roll....offense run through that other teammate...etc...etc....etc..
Championship teams do not have only 1 scoring option that can get---create own shot and shot for teammate-----and demand a double team
Thank goodness LBJ say this before it was too late and got with some guys in Miami (Wade and Bosh) that can get their own shot....have offense run through them too.....and demand respect from the defense (can get 20 on any given night)
That's it......Kobe had that in LA with Shaq then Gasol
When he did not have that -- he was getting bounced from the playoffs just like everybody else (magic, bird, MJ, and even LBJ)
All stars are all studs....but none of them can do it unless they have teammates helping to carry the load (offense has to run through other folks that can get their own shot consistently)
See Melo, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard and ask them do they need help
Also see Durant....and how he defends Westbrook when folks say he needs to shoot less and let KD take more shots....meaning even KD understands "HE NEEDS HELP"
And yes...Kobe in Charlotte would fall short ....media has not proeperly given LBJ credit for getting that sorry Cavs team to overachieve....folks actually felt they were championship contenders....when Celtics, Magic and other true teams knew otherwise |
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iluvmyJs |
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#16 Posted: 7/1/2012 1:47:06 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by 3BallBomber: lmfao didn't cavs have the best record like 2-3 season in a row? u don't achieve that by having weak team mates dumb behind - ask Spurs and Bulls. but what ever rocks ya boat son. Lebron had no help and failed ok, we fuckin get it already over and over and over again
You can do that when you have Lebron  But obviously, thats as far as it can go. Look how awful the Cavs team was after he left. It makes sense...Be objective I said.
You are forgiven. Be cool... Ive posted the rosters and enumerated the players that Bron had vs what the Mamba had. Its easy to see. |
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#17 Posted: 7/2/2012 3:38:56 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by iluvmyJs:
You can do that when you have Lebron But obviously, thats as far as it can go. Look how awful the Cavs team was after he left. It makes sense...Be objective I said.
You are forgiven. Be cool... Ive posted the rosters and enumerated the players that Bron had vs what the Mamba had. Its easy to see.
The Cavs were one of the best defensive teams with Mike Brown and last I checked, Lebron didn't play defense on his own. Totally throwing a whole team under the bus and saying it was one individual performance that carried a team through a whole season is ridiculous. Lebron had an all star point guard and 'decent' bigs in Gooden, Verajao, Jamison and Z. Would you rather have Kwame Brown as your starter?...I would trade him for a one legged midget if he was on my team.
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#18 Posted: 7/2/2012 8:44:53 AM QUOTE Originally Posted by Toocrafty:
The Cavs were one of the best defensive teams with Mike Brown and last I checked, Lebron didn't play defense on his own. Totally throwing a whole team under the bus and saying it was one individual performance that carried a team through a whole season is ridiculous. Lebron had an all star point guard and 'decent' bigs in Gooden, Verajao, Jamison and Z. Would you rather have Kwame Brown as your starter?...I would trade him for a one legged midget if he was on my team.
Man, Mike Brown is a defensive specialist thats why they were the best defensive team. Lebron's impact in the court, same as for any other superstar, is unquantifiable. The league only records steals, blocks rebounds but not things like hedging out on a pick&roll, defense recovery on the weak side, forcing a turnover and anticipations. These are some of what Lebron's intangibles because he is not just an offense only player. With his size and speed he definitely can do those things more than anyone could. He carried most of the load of the Cavs and he did got only little help from his inconsistent team mates. Mo has a good J but he's just a border line all star and very immature at that time. Gooden is a very inconsistent player. I only would give props to Z but he was getting old too. I like Verajao also for his hutle plays but thats it and nothing more. Kobe had a very solid team and a killer coach... No one can argue with that. Lakers were always the team who can surround their superstar with good help same with boston.
The cavs team were very immature including Bron. They were young ofcourse and there was no veteran to take discipline from. Bron was the only consistent player at that time. But even if that was the case they got a long way coz of Lebrons talents and skills but like I said it could only go as far.
Lebron disnt have a Shaq, Coach Phil, and veteran role players. If it was not Lebron who carried the team then why they became the worst team after Bron went to Miami? Btw, giving Jamison to help Bron was a joke, insulting even. |
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CrazyMilkMan |
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#19 Posted: 7/2/2012 1:34:22 PM |
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winkstrap |
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#20 Posted: 7/2/2012 2:11:24 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Mad_Skillz123:
LeBrick fans....
No LBJ didnt had anyone on that team...No Mo Williams ( all star those years ), No Shaq....no Jamison....no Ilgauskas...No Delonte West....no JJ Hickson....absolutely noone!!!
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mo williams
mo made 1 all star game and that was as a replacement  for the injured chris bosh
kobe is the definition of inefficient 
its "BRICK CITY" here in LA with me jacking up hero 3pt bricks all night (kryobe)
dont forget kryobe's fantastic 4.6 assists to 3.52 turnovers this season, what a legend 
lets have me shooting my 25+ shots every night with my great FG% while gasol and bynum stand around while i jack up hero shots and bricks as usual 
kobe 11/12 : fg 43% and 30.3% from downtown
playoffs :fg 43.9% and 28.3% from downtown
if kobe had a brain and wasnt a ball and c0(k hog he would get the ball into gasol and bynum who shoot 50% from the field more often and they might actually be a much better team but kobes ego wont allow that to happen 
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#21 Posted: 7/2/2012 9:38:55 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by CrazyMilkMan:
Kobe right now won't be able to carry the Cats. Give him 3 or 4 years of his youth back and I'd say YES.
I beg to disagree CMM. Kobe doesnt have that ability. The Lakers have had better records when he is out. The only thing saving the Lakers are the all star 7 footers that are always paired with him. Shaq, Bynun and Gasol.
Im sure not everyone knows that Kobe, in his 16 years in the NBA, never had a season with a 50% fgp. The closest was at 47% at which years they didnt win championships. Those years when they won the championship Kobe had a 43% fgp or lower.
Dont get me wrong. Kobe is a great scorer but not a complete and efficient player like Lebron. Yes he got 5 rings but lets not deviate from the fact that TEAMS WIN RINGS. PLAYERS WIN MVPS.
Kobe got drafted in the NBA to be developed by LA, to be disciplined by coach phil and to play with Shaq. Lebron was drafted to save a dying cavaliers team that didnt have a great management nor great role players. See the difference?
As for clutchness, Kobe is 7/25 or 26% in game tying/winning shots on a one ball possession 24secs or less in his whole career including the playoffs. Lebron is 5/12% or 42% in the same moments as for kobe.
People may say "kobe is fearless", " kobe wants the ball in his hands", "kobe has the most ability to make spectacular shots." None of this matters coz at the end of the day only RESULTS matters. Numbers dont lie and only God knows how Kobe's career is gonna go down without 7 footers who will save his missed shotssssssssssss........ |
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#22 Posted: 7/2/2012 9:52:58 PM I don't know man. Kobe way back in 05-06 carried LA to the playoffs (only to lose to the Suns). I don't think the Cats as they are now are as bad as his casts.
I'm a numbers guy but only to answer your question, I really think he could. If say he was never sent to LA and stayed in Charlotte he'd eventually have new recruits to build around him (like what happened with LBJ, crap cast in his first year but eventually have guys who compliments his game). |
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#23 Posted: 7/2/2012 10:08:42 PM
You are right that was the only playoff performance of kobe that he carried the team in which he also had a winning shot in one of the games but failed to win the series. In which case, he had Bynum, Odom etc and coach PJ. Still they lost...
If LBJ had been given what Kobe had in LA you know how it will go down. Thinga dont come easy when you are bound for freatness :)) Just saying... Cheers cmm!  |
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#24 Posted: 7/2/2012 10:27:16 PM
LBJ will probably fail to get his first ring. LBJ and Kobe are two different players. LBJ is an all around guy but needs that extra scorer around him who's able to handle the pressure in games. Kobe is a legit 90's SG-type who'd really be more dangerous with post threats in his team. It gives him more space to operate that way as well. |
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#25 Posted: 7/3/2012 1:55:19 AM |
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