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Author: [NBA Betting] Topic: Ref Complainers: I don't get it but, I'm willing to listen
Krans send a private message View Space | Blog | Friends | Playbook |
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#1
Posted: 6/19/2012 5:03:51 AM
I'm only going to make one thread about this, and really I hope not to re-visit this issue thereafter. Maybe those who complain about the officiating and the big "conspiracy" can come in here and sway my mind - I'm willing to hear you out.

Let me start by talking about one of my friend's let's call him "bob". Bob is a big Lakers fan but everytime they lose it's one excuse after another and 90% of the time it's the officiating and bob points to one or two key plays out of the entire game that are blown. 

Me and all my friends, we support different NBA teams but we all tease bob because of how ridiculous he is. Lately, since Miami became the most hated team in all of sports - ever, I feel like everyone is like bob, I'm at a bar surrounded by Bob's.

I don't get it. 

Sure calls are missed yes, on both sides.
Does LeBron ever drive and not get fouled? Absolutely.
Should KD have gotten a foul call at the end of game 2? Yes, would they have won the game? who knows.

One of the things I love about basketball, and other sports with a five or seven game series is it eliminates the ability of one inferior team of having one great performance and ruining another team's season. Folks you have to lose FOUR games to be eliminated, I just can't fathom that any of the NBA teams blame officiating for that, it's quite simple the better team usually prevails.

I respect OKC, they haven't complained about the refs to my knowledge, in fact the only team I remember really complaining was the Pacers. OKC is young, they are very very talented, I think they have an overall better team than Miami but right now they are making really stupid mistakes and showing their immaturity.

Now for those that say NBA is rigging it for Miami or LeBron I don't get it either. If the NBA wanted LeBron to be the next great all star don't you think they could have fixed him a title in his first oh seven or eight years? If it's Miami why not last year? Why not OKC and why not Durant? Why remove the LeBron "ringless" story when ITS PRODUCED THE HIGHEST PLAYOFF RATINGS IN YEARS.

The conspiracy theory doesn't make sense.
Blaming the refs for losing doesn't make sense.
For the most part most of the coaches and players understand this and take accountability for this.


I'm willing to listen to other viewpoints but so many of them seem so unfounded. I don't want to hear about one specific play over the course of 144 minutes, I don't want to hear about how LeBron should be fouling out all the time, and that KD isn't fouling because he clearly is. I think OKC has the makings of a dynasty and honestly this MIA-OKC matchup might happen again but I think right now they're making rookie mistakes that a lot of smart people predicted would happen.

Before the series, I picked OKC in 6, but I've been very impressed with the Heat and to be honest I've overlooked a lot about the Thunder's immaturity.
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#2
Posted: 6/19/2012 5:05:03 AM
I should add one more thing.

I do think Joey Crawford is horrible, but I think he's universally horrible and shouldn't be an official in this league.
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#3
Posted: 6/19/2012 5:34:00 AM
Same thing I just posted for rangerz thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXZTbRSXcEs

You think these are "human errors" ? Can you honestly say that games 1 and 2 of the eastern conference finals, the heat were not HEAVILY favoured? Do you actually believe 3 refs missed that call on Rondo in game 2 when he got smacked in the head by wade in OT (I dont know if a more obv foul is possible, which determined the outcome the game btw).

I am not saying the NBA is fixed, I am 100% sure there is no such a thing as conspiracies or stern calling series winners. But if for one second, you think that the refs are not controlling many of the games and some shady behind business is not going on here...you are either blind or delusional.

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#4
Posted: 6/19/2012 5:43:49 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Krans:

I'm only going to make one thread about this, and really I hope not to re-visit this issue thereafter. Maybe those who complain about the officiating and the big "conspiracy" can come in here and sway my mind - I'm willing to hear you out.

Let me start by talking about one of my friend's let's call him "bob". Bob is a big Lakers fan but everytime they lose it's one excuse after another and 90% of the time it's the officiating and bob points to one or two key plays out of the entire game that are blown. 

Me and all my friends, we support different NBA teams but we all tease bob because of how ridiculous he is. Lately, since Miami became the most hated team in all of sports - ever, I feel like everyone is like bob, I'm at a bar surrounded by Bob's.

I don't get it. 

Sure calls are missed yes, on both sides.
Does LeBron ever drive and not get fouled? Absolutely.
Should KD have gotten a foul call at the end of game 2? Yes, would they have won the game? who knows.

One of the things I love about basketball, and other sports with a five or seven game series is it eliminates the ability of one inferior team of having one great performance and ruining another team's season. Folks you have to lose FOUR games to be eliminated, I just can't fathom that any of the NBA teams blame officiating for that, it's quite simple the better team usually prevails.

I respect OKC, they haven't complained about the refs to my knowledge, in fact the only team I remember really complaining was the Pacers. OKC is young, they are very very talented, I think they have an overall better team than Miami but right now they are making really stupid mistakes and showing their immaturity.

Now for those that say NBA is rigging it for Miami or LeBron I don't get it either. If the NBA wanted LeBron to be the next great all star don't you think they could have fixed him a title in his first oh seven or eight years? If it's Miami why not last year? Why not OKC and why not Durant? Why remove the LeBron "ringless" story when ITS PRODUCED THE HIGHEST PLAYOFF RATINGS IN YEARS.

The conspiracy theory doesn't make sense.
Blaming the refs for losing doesn't make sense.
For the most part most of the coaches and players understand this and take accountability for this.


I'm willing to listen to other viewpoints but so many of them seem so unfounded. I don't want to hear about one specific play over the course of 144 minutes, I don't want to hear about how LeBron should be fouling out all the time, and that KD isn't fouling because he clearly is. I think OKC has the makings of a dynasty and honestly this MIA-OKC matchup might happen again but I think right now they're making rookie mistakes that a lot of smart people predicted would happen.

Before the series, I picked OKC in 6, but I've been very impressed with the Heat and to be honest I've overlooked a lot about the Thunder's immaturity.

Well put

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#5
Posted: 6/19/2012 5:55:32 AM

I think every single heat win in the past 3 rounds, i've came on here to hear the same people bitching and moaning about 1 or 2 missed calls.....but isn't it amazing how they never notice a missed call going against the heat.....the one-sided microscope from some of these people amazes me, but i guess that's what you get when you are the most hated team in the nba....especially when you couple that with people losing money betting against them. 

I keep hearing people going back to game 2 when lebron didn't get called for a foul against durant, but it's funny how they quickly forgot that durant should have been called for a charge and fouled out 3 minutes earlier before they even made the run....instead he gets 2 free throws and a couple durant jump shots later its a ballgame.

Then I hear these same people keep bitching about the missed call when rondo went up for a layup in game 2....but yet they never mention how lebrons 4th, 5th, and 6th foul call were absolutely atrocious in game 4 and him fouling out was the main reason the celtics even got back in the series in the first place. But, when you have a one-sided microscope up of course you would ignore that.  The officiating usually tends to even out over the course of the series just like how game 1 of the celtics series the heat got the majority of the calls....well games 3 and 4 the refs were all over the celtics.

I can kind of sympathize with some of these people that keep bitching about a heat fix though because I always thought the same thing back in the day when I hated the Bulls.  I always thought the refs had a hard-on for MJ and always over-emphasized a few missed calls going the bulls way as the reason the bulls won the game. 

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#6
Posted: 6/19/2012 6:10:02 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MIAMIHEAT3:

isn't it amazing how they never notice a missed call going against the heat.....the one-sided microscope from some of these people amazes me, but i guess that's what you get when you are the most hated team in the nba.......

Then I hear these same people keep bitching about the missed call when rondo went up for a layup in game 2....but yet they never mention how lebrons 4th, 5th, and 6th foul call were absolutely atrocious in game 4 and him fouling out was the main reason the celtics even got back in the series in the first place. But, when you have a one-sided microscope up of course you would ignore that.  The officiating usually tends to even out over the course of the series just like how game 1 of the celtics series the heat got the majority of the calls....well games 3 and 4 the refs were all over the celtics.



Agree with a lot of what you said, especially about LeBron, LeBron get's fouled a lot more than gets called and he's a pretty fantastic defender
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#7
Posted: 6/19/2012 6:12:25 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by bhawksfan:

Same thing I just posted for rangerz thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXZTbRSXcEs

You think these are "human errors" ? Can you honestly say that games 1 and 2 of the eastern conference finals, the heat were not HEAVILY favoured? Do you actually believe 3 refs missed that call on Rondo in game 2 when he got smacked in the head by wade in OT (I dont know if a more obv foul is possible, which determined the outcome the game btw).

I am not saying the NBA is fixed, I am 100% sure there is no such a thing as conspiracies or stern calling series winners. But if for one second, you think that the refs are not controlling many of the games and some shady behind business is not going on here...you are either blind or delusional.


bhawks thanks for your opinion, and nice to see someone come in with some valid points rather than pointing out one game and what not.

This post was kind of specifically pointed towards the OKC series in which I really can't understand people using the refs in this series AT ALL.

Having said that, I completely agree that game one against the celtics those technicals were ridiculous. I also think, as I pointed out earlier, Joey Crawford is horrible and needs to leave. Either he's in on something, has his own agenda or is just plain old and stupid (I'm leaning towards old and stupid).

Agree with you on no conspiracy or Stern calling games. As for the refs themselves they're human and they could have their own agendas and yes I admit there is possiblity to them skewing things.

I just don't see it in this series.
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#8
Posted: 6/19/2012 6:34:58 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MIAMIHEAT3:

I think every single heat win in the past 3 rounds, i've came on here to hear the same people bitching and moaning about 1 or 2 missed calls.....but isn't it amazing how they never notice a missed call going against the heat.....the one-sided microscope from some of these people amazes me, but i guess that's what you get when you are the most hated team in the nba....especially when you couple that with people losing money betting against them. 

I keep hearing people going back to game 2 when lebron didn't get called for a foul against durant, but it's funny how they quickly forgot that durant should have been called for a charge and fouled out 3 minutes earlier before they even made the run....instead he gets 2 free throws and a couple durant jump shots later its a ballgame.

Then I hear these same people keep bitching about the missed call when rondo went up for a layup in game 2....but yet they never mention how lebrons 4th, 5th, and 6th foul call were absolutely atrocious in game 4 and him fouling out was the main reason the celtics even got back in the series in the first place. But, when you have a one-sided microscope up of course you would ignore that.  The officiating usually tends to even out over the course of the series just like how game 1 of the celtics series the heat got the majority of the calls....well games 3 and 4 the refs were all over the celtics.

There you go, that's how the refs control the game. 

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Posted: 6/19/2012 7:08:47 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MIAMIHEAT3:

I think every single heat win in the past 3 rounds, i've came on here to hear the same people bitching and moaning about 1 or 2 missed calls.....but isn't it amazing how they never notice a missed call going against the heat.....the one-sided microscope from some of these people amazes me, but i guess that's what you get when you are the most hated team in the nba....especially when you couple that with people losing money betting against them. 

I keep hearing people going back to game 2 when lebron didn't get called for a foul against durant, but it's funny how they quickly forgot that durant should have been called for a charge and fouled out 3 minutes earlier before they even made the run....instead he gets 2 free throws and a couple durant jump shots later its a ballgame.

Then I hear these same people keep bitching about the missed call when rondo went up for a layup in game 2....but yet they never mention how lebrons 4th, 5th, and 6th foul call were absolutely atrocious in game 4 and him fouling out was the main reason the celtics even got back in the series in the first place. But, when you have a one-sided microscope up of course you would ignore that.  The officiating usually tends to even out over the course of the series just like how game 1 of the celtics series the heat got the majority of the calls....well games 3 and 4 the refs were all over the celtics.

I can kind of sympathize with some of these people that keep bitching about a heat fix though because I always thought the same thing back in the day when I hated the Bulls.  I always thought the refs had a hard-on for MJ and always over-emphasized a few missed calls going the bulls way as the reason the bulls won the game. 



But see thats ure biased point of view, in that same game 4 Pierce fouled out before Lebron on a bunch of BS touch calls and the last one was simply battier getting in his way and flopping...

Miami got the better of calls overall in that series but I understand u wont admit it because ure a heat fan, but u dont need to get so defensive in ure posts, I just used that example because it was the most blatant example on how the refs are screwing up some of the games.

The Heat have outplayed OKC so far in this series and they deserve to be up a game, brooks has done a horrible coaching job (keeping westbrook on the bench for that long in game 3 was a joke) and there are too many stretches where the thunder dont play proper defense.

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#10
Posted: 6/19/2012 7:11:24 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by jarhead39:



Now go watch the Thunder's entire run up to this point and you can say the exact same thing that you just did about the Heat.


ye I agree to a certain degree, e.g. that game 6 vs spurs. Even during the reg season I saw many games where it was clear the refs were favouring the thunder. I just used that example to say something is wrong with these refs, too many incorrect calls going certain ways in some games.
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#11
Posted: 6/19/2012 7:13:16 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Krans:


bhawks thanks for your opinion, and nice to see someone come in with some valid points rather than pointing out one game and what not.

This post was kind of specifically pointed towards the OKC series in which I really can't understand people using the refs in this series AT ALL.

Having said that, I completely agree that game one against the celtics those technicals were ridiculous. I also think, as I pointed out earlier, Joey Crawford is horrible and needs to leave. Either he's in on something, has his own agenda or is just plain old and stupid (I'm leaning towards old and stupid).

Agree with you on no conspiracy or Stern calling games. As for the refs themselves they're human and they could have their own agendas and yes I admit there is possiblity to them skewing things.

I just don't see it in this series.


Thanks Krans, hopefully we will see better officiating in the future, that way people get less caught up in the controversies (including myself lol) and focus more on the actual games.
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#12
Posted: 6/19/2012 7:56:40 AM

Watch the 3 plays in this thread...this is just the beginning

http://www.covers.com/postingforum/POST01/showmessage.aspx?spt=22&sub=101368445

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#13
Posted: 6/19/2012 8:01:48 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MIAMIHEAT3:

I think every single heat win in the past 3 rounds, i've came on here to hear the same people bitching and moaning about 1 or 2 missed calls.....but isn't it amazing how they never notice a missed call going against the heat.....the one-sided microscope from some of these people amazes me, but i guess that's what you get when you are the most hated team in the nba....especially when you couple that with people losing money betting against them. 

I keep hearing people going back to game 2 when lebron didn't get called for a foul against durant, but it's funny how they quickly forgot that durant should have been called for a charge and fouled out 3 minutes earlier before they even made the run....instead he gets 2 free throws and a couple durant jump shots later its a ballgame.

Then I hear these same people keep bitching about the missed call when rondo went up for a layup in game 2....but yet they never mention how lebrons 4th, 5th, and 6th foul call were absolutely atrocious in game 4 and him fouling out was the main reason the celtics even got back in the series in the first place. But, when you have a one-sided microscope up of course you would ignore that.  The officiating usually tends to even out over the course of the series just like how game 1 of the celtics series the heat got the majority of the calls....well games 3 and 4 the refs were all over the celtics.

I can kind of sympathize with some of these people that keep bitching about a heat fix though because I always thought the same thing back in the day when I hated the Bulls.  I always thought the refs had a hard-on for MJ and always over-emphasized a few missed calls going the bulls way as the reason the bulls won the game. 

"I keep hearing people going back to game 2 when lebron didn't get called for a foul against durant, but it's funny how they quickly forgot that durant should have been called for a charge and fouled out 3 minutes earlier before they even made the run....instead he gets 2 free throws and a couple durant jump shots later its a ballgame."

This is the funniest and most pathetic argument I have EVER heard on covers

Durant should have fouled out already, so therefore you cant cal the foul on Lebron at the end

Charges are 50/50 at best.  I can show you 3 blocks called agaisnt Ok City that were the EXACT same play as the Durant play...

1) No call on James end of game 2

2) Foul #4 on Durant game 3

3) Refs calling Fishers 3 a 2(yes they reveresed it again)

4) Brooks gets a T for arguing a call the refs reversed

5) DWade and-1 when NOBODY touches him

6) DWade trie to block a dunk with contact throughout no call

7) James throws call off behind backboard

8) James can somehow guard Durant for a game and get 1 foul

 

Thats 7 BEYOND SHADDY calls in just game 3 alone...

Thats why people are upset

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#14
Posted: 6/19/2012 8:05:32 AM
Lebron threw the ball off the back of the backboard, which is supposed to be out of bounds, and the refs somehow missed it. Nuff said.
Posted using a mobile device.
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#15
Posted: 6/19/2012 8:48:19 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by LETGOPACK1234:

"I keep hearing people going back to game 2 when lebron didn't get called for a foul against durant, but it's funny how they quickly forgot that durant should have been called for a charge and fouled out 3 minutes earlier before they even made the run....instead he gets 2 free throws and a couple durant jump shots later its a ballgame."

This is the funniest and most pathetic argument I have EVER heard on covers

Durant should have fouled out already, so therefore you cant cal the foul on Lebron at the end

Charges are 50/50 at best.  I can show you 3 blocks called agaisnt Ok City that were the EXACT same play as the Durant play...

1) No call on James end of game 2

2) Foul #4 on Durant game 3

3) Refs calling Fishers 3 a 2(yes they reveresed it again)

4) Brooks gets a T for arguing a call the refs reversed

5) DWade and-1 when NOBODY touches him

6) DWade trie to block a dunk with contact throughout no call

7) James throws call off behind backboard

8) James can somehow guard Durant for a game and get 1 foul

 

Thats 7 BEYOND SHADDY calls in just game 3 alone...

Thats why people are upset

 
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Posted: 6/19/2012 9:27:46 AM
When you talk to normal fans, as opposed to Covers posters who have been betting agains the Heat, they will tell you the officiating has been even.  It's only the crybabies who lose who claim the games are fixed.  Bottom line is if OKC shot better, they'd win.  But they didn't, so they lost.  Pretty simple.  These same kids will be back crying after the game tonight if the Heat win.
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#17
Posted: 6/19/2012 9:40:22 AM
pretty sure im a normal fan and havent made a bet this finals.  Refs have sucked.  Just watch the clips dude or maybe re watch game 2 or game 3
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#18
Posted: 6/19/2012 10:06:01 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

When you talk to normal fans, as opposed to Covers posters who have been betting agains the Heat, they will tell you the officiating has been even.  It's only the crybabies who lose who claim the games are fixed.  Bottom line is if OKC shot better, they'd win.  But they didn't, so they lost.  Pretty simple.  These same kids will be back crying after the game tonight if the Heat win.

 

I have been watching every game here in Chicago....with non-gamblers and non-basketball die-hards....And even they are constantly commenting on how one-sided calls have been

People who have no clue the strategy of winning basketball can sit and watch the game and see Miami getting every call

Get over it dude...I just gave you 8 examples of awful calls....

Besides the Durant charge....please provide examples of calls against Miami that have had impact like the calls against Ok City

Please do

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#19
Posted: 6/19/2012 10:06:53 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

When you talk to normal fans, as opposed to Covers posters who have been betting agains the Heat, they will tell you the officiating has been even.  It's only the crybabies who lose who claim the games are fixed.  Bottom line is if OKC shot better, they'd win.  But they didn't, so they lost.  Pretty simple.  These same kids will be back crying after the game tonight if the Heat win.

I guess the professional media that mock and discuss how bad the calls against Ok city dont count either huh???

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#20
Posted: 6/19/2012 10:54:46 AM
From my honest heat-hating perspective, I thought that the refs were either favoring the Heat or they missed some ridiculous plays.

1. For example, I thought that the 4th foul on Durant was "convenient."
2. When Lebron threw the ball off the back of the backboard and none of the refs saw it, I just couldn't believe it.  I was just in shock, although I don't think that play decided the game or the cover.
3. However, when Harden got called on the last foul to send Lebron to the line for free throws, I thought it was just a flop and I didn't think the refs should blow the whistle.

All in all, the refs were BAD, but they didn't favor the heat too much.

However, when I heard EVERYONE complaining about the refs, I realized that i wasn't the only one who thought they were biased.
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#21
Posted: 6/19/2012 10:56:19 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by nflcapperletsgo:

When you talk to normal fans, as opposed to Covers posters who have been betting agains the Heat, they will tell you the officiating has been even.  It's only the crybabies who lose who claim the games are fixed.  Bottom line is if OKC shot better, they'd win.  But they didn't, so they lost.  Pretty simple.  These same kids will be back crying after the game tonight if the Heat win.

 

Very true. I've been talkiing about nba finals with guys at work. They are not betters and they did not even once mention about the refs. Couple of guys I know know nba inside out and are huge fans and they did not even mention a word about officating.

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#22
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:24:07 AM
All this is for the f•cking money...MONEY MONEY...
Thats all!!
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#23
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:26:03 AM
People who have never dominated organized basketball will never understand, you literally get fouled every single time down the floor. Lebron James is the best player in the world & Kevin Durant is the 2nd best player in the world, if the refs called every single foul committed against these two guys both teams would be in the bonus within the first three minutes.

Is the NBA rigged? In a way it is because if every foul in every game was called the league would be unwatchable. It isn't in the NBA's best interest to have one superstar beat another superstar, but it is in their best interest to have those superstars on the court for as long as possible. To prematurely answer the crybabies that will moan "a-duuuuh, then why be durant in de foul troublez but nawt lebaby?" Lebron is simply the much, much better defender between the two.

Throughout the series calls will be missed for both teams, but it doesn't mean that Stern is out to personally rob you of your  50$ bets. Get over yourselves and grow up.
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#24
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:33:41 AM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by parlazy:

People who have never dominated organized basketball will never understand, you literally get fouled every single time down the floor. Lebron James is the best player in the world & Kevin Durant is the 2nd best player in the world, if the refs called every single foul committed against these two guys both teams would be in the bonus within the first three minutes.

Is the NBA rigged? In a way it is because if every foul in every game was called the league would be unwatchable. It isn't in the NBA's best interest to have one superstar beat another superstar, but it is in their best interest to have those superstars on the court for as long as possible. To prematurely answer the crybabies that will moan "a-duuuuh, then why be durant in de foul troublez but nawt lebaby?" Lebron is simply the much, much better defender between the two.

Throughout the series calls will be missed for both teams, but it doesn't mean that Stern is out to personally rob you of your  50$ bets. Get over yourselves and grow up.

Lebron is probably the most physical defender in the league, agree????

How in the world could he guard Durant and get 1 foul???  That is the biggest joke in the world. 

Funny how Durant shot 4 ft while Wade shot 11 and James shot 8...

And, dont give me any bs about Durant being a jump-shooter.  He drives the balls just as often as the other guys...He isnt getting any calls...

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#25
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:40:36 AM

Please watch these 3 plays......rate them 1-3 on which had the most and least contact...in the end realize the play with the LEAST contact was the only one called a foul...WOW....it was on OK City

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TekBLysYMoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQHTwWUyCXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxHqYAEL6IM

How strange, the only play in which the player wasnt even touched is the one a foul is called

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