In my opinion, two of the most overrated quarterbacks in the history of the NFL..Namath was one of the first true passers but all-time greats don't have more INTS than touchdowns.. Elway was simply along for the ride for both of his Super Bowl victories..Davis and the stingy Denver defense were the main reasons Denver was able to win it all.. Both of these quarterbacks won, but based on the eye test I would take Dan Marino over either of the above..
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
In my opinion, two of the most overrated quarterbacks in the history of the NFL..Namath was one of the first true passers but all-time greats don't have more INTS than touchdowns.. Elway was simply along for the ride for both of his Super Bowl victories..Davis and the stingy Denver defense were the main reasons Denver was able to win it all.. Both of these quarterbacks won, but based on the eye test I would take Dan Marino over either of the above..
Both of these quarterbacks won, but based on the eye test I would take Dan Marino over either of the above..
Not that controversial, especially for Namath who was basically a Disney storyline in the biggest media market at a time of limited media. No way I agree with Elway being a passenger, unless that really was a helicopter he was on when he spun through the air in the SB!
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Quote Originally Posted by JakeLake720:
Both of these quarterbacks won, but based on the eye test I would take Dan Marino over either of the above..
Not that controversial, especially for Namath who was basically a Disney storyline in the biggest media market at a time of limited media. No way I agree with Elway being a passenger, unless that really was a helicopter he was on when he spun through the air in the SB!
First guy to throw for 4000 yards (ho-hum by today's standards, but in a 14-game season)
Not only put AFC on the map by beating legendary Colts (as a 17-1/2 point underdog) he FREAKIN GUARANTEED IT.
The FuManchu, the fir coat, doing Anne Margaret (as well as every other broad he wanted), brought quite a bit of attention to the Jets and the AFC. Until then, the NFC was the top dog in pro football. This helped pave the way for The Merger, and Namath was the cause.
Understand, I'm not comparing him to Jackie Robinson in any way, but he helped advance his cause (actually, his owners, and the rest of the AFCs owners) more than any other player. He did not have HOF statistics, but he did have HOF impact.
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Namath was a publicists dream:
From Alabama to New York
First guy to throw for 4000 yards (ho-hum by today's standards, but in a 14-game season)
Not only put AFC on the map by beating legendary Colts (as a 17-1/2 point underdog) he FREAKIN GUARANTEED IT.
The FuManchu, the fir coat, doing Anne Margaret (as well as every other broad he wanted), brought quite a bit of attention to the Jets and the AFC. Until then, the NFC was the top dog in pro football. This helped pave the way for The Merger, and Namath was the cause.
Understand, I'm not comparing him to Jackie Robinson in any way, but he helped advance his cause (actually, his owners, and the rest of the AFCs owners) more than any other player. He did not have HOF statistics, but he did have HOF impact.
I'd disagree with namath more than elway just because elway was luckier with the bill of health...yes namath threw interceptions like they were going out of style sometimes and was probably hungover or drunk in many games played...
but when healthy everyone knew what he could do and he showed it....he played before a pretty porous offensive line and afl rules and football rules in general hardly protected quarterbacks as they do now, even for star players the afl dreamed of having for advertising purposes and posing a legit threat to the nfl in the 60s and 70s...
namath was beaten up man and I also think being healthy sometimes comes down to luck and the body type...namath's legs weren't meant for football specifically those knees...I'm 27 and I like watching namath highlights over elway, but elway was like marino if you think about it...he just happened to stick around long enough and get a better balanced team late in his career to take some of the responsibility off him and it resulted in two late career super bowl wins...
namath was legit tho when healthy and if he stayed healthy the numbers would be different and the judgment would be more fair from his critics...they do have credible arguments but look at the whole picture with namath because he basically played on no knees from day one in the pros much less alabama, banged up shoulder, thumb, toros, hamstring every season....
i think a good comparison would be the arms of marino, elway, and namath because they all had quick triggers and strong arms for sure...I like marino and namath over elway....good topic tho
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I'd disagree with namath more than elway just because elway was luckier with the bill of health...yes namath threw interceptions like they were going out of style sometimes and was probably hungover or drunk in many games played...
but when healthy everyone knew what he could do and he showed it....he played before a pretty porous offensive line and afl rules and football rules in general hardly protected quarterbacks as they do now, even for star players the afl dreamed of having for advertising purposes and posing a legit threat to the nfl in the 60s and 70s...
namath was beaten up man and I also think being healthy sometimes comes down to luck and the body type...namath's legs weren't meant for football specifically those knees...I'm 27 and I like watching namath highlights over elway, but elway was like marino if you think about it...he just happened to stick around long enough and get a better balanced team late in his career to take some of the responsibility off him and it resulted in two late career super bowl wins...
namath was legit tho when healthy and if he stayed healthy the numbers would be different and the judgment would be more fair from his critics...they do have credible arguments but look at the whole picture with namath because he basically played on no knees from day one in the pros much less alabama, banged up shoulder, thumb, toros, hamstring every season....
i think a good comparison would be the arms of marino, elway, and namath because they all had quick triggers and strong arms for sure...I like marino and namath over elway....good topic tho
I'm lucky enough to have seen both play........I agree with mylife in that Namath got hammered on. If you get to watch some of the old NFL films, he got trashed.......helmet getting ripped off, late hits, etc. His release was/is legendary......guy could sling it. But other than Sauer & Maynard, he didn't have much to work with. They didn't throw much to the rb's back then........not sure they ever had a 1k yd rb.
I saw Elway play many times live (in the old Kingdome) & in no way is he overrated. That guy pissed me off more than any other opposing qb that came to Seattle. He could be bottled up but get out of it & throw a 50 yd td, or take off for 15-20 yds for a 1st down........saw it too many times. Marino was great but so were Namath & Elway..........can't say I'd take any of them over the other.
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I'm lucky enough to have seen both play........I agree with mylife in that Namath got hammered on. If you get to watch some of the old NFL films, he got trashed.......helmet getting ripped off, late hits, etc. His release was/is legendary......guy could sling it. But other than Sauer & Maynard, he didn't have much to work with. They didn't throw much to the rb's back then........not sure they ever had a 1k yd rb.
I saw Elway play many times live (in the old Kingdome) & in no way is he overrated. That guy pissed me off more than any other opposing qb that came to Seattle. He could be bottled up but get out of it & throw a 50 yd td, or take off for 15-20 yds for a 1st down........saw it too many times. Marino was great but so were Namath & Elway..........can't say I'd take any of them over the other.
Elway was simply along for the ride for both of his Super Bowl victories..Davis and the stingy Denver defense were the main reasons Denver was able to win it all.. Both of these quarterbacks won, but based on the eye test I would take Dan Marino over either of the above..
Along for the ride lol Along for the ride.
Where do you get off kid.
Go back and look at the box scores
by halftime the scores would be 28 to 7 or 28 to 10
Along for the ride?
What happened to the same Bronco team after Elway retired?
Please, Please, Please, You are not dealing with no nothing 20 year old kids here, (Well, For the most part)
Also the superbowl years and the year before when they were ousted by the Jaguars, the Broncos covered the spread in New England style fashion.
You could make a fortune betting Denver and the Over every week in a parlay, There was nothing like it and that 1998 seaon, It was parlay galore You add Denver and the Over to the 49ers or packers, or ZVikings or the under on Tampa and you came out smelling like a rose every week.
that was the year I made over 60K started with 2000 that year, opened my first Pizzeria after that year and i OWE it all to John Elway
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Quote Originally Posted by JakeLake720:
Elway was simply along for the ride for both of his Super Bowl victories..Davis and the stingy Denver defense were the main reasons Denver was able to win it all.. Both of these quarterbacks won, but based on the eye test I would take Dan Marino over either of the above..
Along for the ride lol Along for the ride.
Where do you get off kid.
Go back and look at the box scores
by halftime the scores would be 28 to 7 or 28 to 10
Along for the ride?
What happened to the same Bronco team after Elway retired?
Please, Please, Please, You are not dealing with no nothing 20 year old kids here, (Well, For the most part)
Also the superbowl years and the year before when they were ousted by the Jaguars, the Broncos covered the spread in New England style fashion.
You could make a fortune betting Denver and the Over every week in a parlay, There was nothing like it and that 1998 seaon, It was parlay galore You add Denver and the Over to the 49ers or packers, or ZVikings or the under on Tampa and you came out smelling like a rose every week.
that was the year I made over 60K started with 2000 that year, opened my first Pizzeria after that year and i OWE it all to John Elway
Elway was great for his era and got through his growing pains to become a very efficient passer and team leader. He had an excellent supporting cast towards the end of his career and made the best of it.
In today's game, the leash is much shorter (unless you are Mark Sanchez) for quarterbacks. If you look at Elway's stats and record in his first couple years, it is likely that he would have been benched at some time (although the quality of backups was subpar compared to today's standards). There is no telling if he would have gone the way of a Matt Leinart, or re-emerged as a star with a new change in scenery ala Drew Brees.
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Elway was great for his era and got through his growing pains to become a very efficient passer and team leader. He had an excellent supporting cast towards the end of his career and made the best of it.
In today's game, the leash is much shorter (unless you are Mark Sanchez) for quarterbacks. If you look at Elway's stats and record in his first couple years, it is likely that he would have been benched at some time (although the quality of backups was subpar compared to today's standards). There is no telling if he would have gone the way of a Matt Leinart, or re-emerged as a star with a new change in scenery ala Drew Brees.
maybe Broadway Joe was overrated but Elway? no .. the man could throw like Dan Marino and scramble like Michael Vick .. one of the all time greats no doubt .. without Elway the Broncos would have zero superbowls
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maybe Broadway Joe was overrated but Elway? no .. the man could throw like Dan Marino and scramble like Michael Vick .. one of the all time greats no doubt .. without Elway the Broncos would have zero superbowls
Absolutely senseless to compare quarterbacks from an era when both they and their receivers were legally assaulted on the field to the present era of pansy a$$ don't touch my quarterback or wideout football.
Who knows what Namath would have done with the royal military protection that quarterbacks and wideouts get these days.
These modern day "running quarterbacks" wouldn't last 2 games back then without accurate passing skills. You had to be able to throw with pinpoint precision or you were done. Quarterbacks were abused regularly, there was little if any protection on hits and receivers were routinely molested on their routes so passes had to be perfect. Quarterbacks like Staubach and Tarkenton could and would scramble and run but they also had amazing passing skills. Guys like Michael Vick and his horrible passing accuracy wouldn't have even made it into the league. Lester Hayes and Michael Haynes would have picked him off 5 times each every time they played him. It's exciting for fans to watch people go on electric runs so that's what they feed you these days.
Just silly to compare the eras imo.
Truly a voice of reason and sanity, Thank you.
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Quote Originally Posted by Polar_Bear:
Absolutely senseless to compare quarterbacks from an era when both they and their receivers were legally assaulted on the field to the present era of pansy a$$ don't touch my quarterback or wideout football.
Who knows what Namath would have done with the royal military protection that quarterbacks and wideouts get these days.
These modern day "running quarterbacks" wouldn't last 2 games back then without accurate passing skills. You had to be able to throw with pinpoint precision or you were done. Quarterbacks were abused regularly, there was little if any protection on hits and receivers were routinely molested on their routes so passes had to be perfect. Quarterbacks like Staubach and Tarkenton could and would scramble and run but they also had amazing passing skills. Guys like Michael Vick and his horrible passing accuracy wouldn't have even made it into the league. Lester Hayes and Michael Haynes would have picked him off 5 times each every time they played him. It's exciting for fans to watch people go on electric runs so that's what they feed you these days.
Hey I have my opinion what can I say...My list is: 1-Marino 2-Montana 3-Brady 4-P.Manning 5-Unitas 6-S.Young 7-Elway Feel free to disagree no big deal..
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Hey I have my opinion what can I say...My list is: 1-Marino 2-Montana 3-Brady 4-P.Manning 5-Unitas 6-S.Young 7-Elway Feel free to disagree no big deal..
I would slide Elway ahead of Manning on your list, and I'm a Manning fan.
I think some of Elways better years weren't when he won Super Bowls but rather when he lost the Super Bowl. I struggle to name WR's on those teams and Elway still got them to the big game multiple times during that period.
It's all subjective and football is the toughest sport to compare individual achievements because it's such a team oriented game.
I hate when people use Super Bowl wins as a deciding factor. For example, Trent Dilfer is obviously not as good as Dan Marino. However I think long term playoff success is a factor. For example Tom Brady's overall playoff win percentage.
Good topic Jake.
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I would slide Elway ahead of Manning on your list, and I'm a Manning fan.
I think some of Elways better years weren't when he won Super Bowls but rather when he lost the Super Bowl. I struggle to name WR's on those teams and Elway still got them to the big game multiple times during that period.
It's all subjective and football is the toughest sport to compare individual achievements because it's such a team oriented game.
I hate when people use Super Bowl wins as a deciding factor. For example, Trent Dilfer is obviously not as good as Dan Marino. However I think long term playoff success is a factor. For example Tom Brady's overall playoff win percentage.
I would slide Elway ahead of Manning on your list, and I'm a Manning fan.
I think some of Elways better years weren't when he won Super Bowls but rather when he lost the Super Bowl. I struggle to name WR's on those teams and Elway still got them to the big game multiple times during that period.
It's all subjective and football is the toughest sport to compare individual achievements because it's such a team oriented game.
I hate when people use Super Bowl wins as a deciding factor. For example, Trent Dilfer is obviously not as good as Dan Marino. However I think long term playoff success is a factor. For example Tom Brady's overall playoff win percentage.
Good topic Jake.
Fran Tarkenton doesn't get mention but he was an early-years Elway
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Quote Originally Posted by Ktrain:
I would slide Elway ahead of Manning on your list, and I'm a Manning fan.
I think some of Elways better years weren't when he won Super Bowls but rather when he lost the Super Bowl. I struggle to name WR's on those teams and Elway still got them to the big game multiple times during that period.
It's all subjective and football is the toughest sport to compare individual achievements because it's such a team oriented game.
I hate when people use Super Bowl wins as a deciding factor. For example, Trent Dilfer is obviously not as good as Dan Marino. However I think long term playoff success is a factor. For example Tom Brady's overall playoff win percentage.
Good topic Jake.
Fran Tarkenton doesn't get mention but he was an early-years Elway
I often wonder how people would view Kelly had Norwood's kick gone about 3 feet left.
I also wonder if that would have done anything for that teams confidence in the following Super Bowls. Kinda hard to tell since Washington and the first Dallas team blew them out.
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Quote Originally Posted by mafioso:
From my era
Elways
Brady
Young
Marino
Kelly
Farve
Manning
Aikman
Rapistburger
I often wonder how people would view Kelly had Norwood's kick gone about 3 feet left.
I also wonder if that would have done anything for that teams confidence in the following Super Bowls. Kinda hard to tell since Washington and the first Dallas team blew them out.
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