Nice to be back on the winning side of things again... Thank you everyone for your contributions last week, hopefully the thread made you money...
Lets get back to basics so lets review...
1. I only play one teaser with 4 teams +13 points... I would rather double my bet then play two teasers...
2. Only sides, just out of preference and experience
3. I will cross the zero providing I cover the numbers 3 and 7 as they are the most common... especially 3, can you tell me the last time you saw a week in the NFL without at least one of the games being decided by exactly 3 points?
4. I try to look for lower scoring games to get more value in the +13 points.
5. Not necessarily looking to pick all winners, as picking randomly +13 points ATS you will go better then 80%... so when you are dealing with 4 team +13 points teasers, you are looking at how to avoid the "losers" and stepping on those "land mine games" that blow up your whole teaser... these happen about 15% or so of the time...
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To remove first post, remove entire topic.
Nice to be back on the winning side of things again... Thank you everyone for your contributions last week, hopefully the thread made you money...
Lets get back to basics so lets review...
1. I only play one teaser with 4 teams +13 points... I would rather double my bet then play two teasers...
2. Only sides, just out of preference and experience
3. I will cross the zero providing I cover the numbers 3 and 7 as they are the most common... especially 3, can you tell me the last time you saw a week in the NFL without at least one of the games being decided by exactly 3 points?
4. I try to look for lower scoring games to get more value in the +13 points.
5. Not necessarily looking to pick all winners, as picking randomly +13 points ATS you will go better then 80%... so when you are dealing with 4 team +13 points teasers, you are looking at how to avoid the "losers" and stepping on those "land mine games" that blow up your whole teaser... these happen about 15% or so of the time...
So this week looks better then last week and I will be playing 1.5- 2 units (2 units is max bet)...
Part of this is because there is a home/bye dog (a home dog coming off of a bye)...
So far this season this trend is 1-0 and historically this is the only trend I know of that hits over 90% of the time... so when this occurs I automatically increase my bet...
CLE +18
CLE is undefeated +13 points ATS... but more importantly is a decent number for this situation...
any more ideas or suggestions?
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So this week looks better then last week and I will be playing 1.5- 2 units (2 units is max bet)...
Part of this is because there is a home/bye dog (a home dog coming off of a bye)...
So far this season this trend is 1-0 and historically this is the only trend I know of that hits over 90% of the time... so when this occurs I automatically increase my bet...
CLE +18
CLE is undefeated +13 points ATS... but more importantly is a decent number for this situation...
Nice job last week - did well myself. So far liking Indy +16 & Pitt +8.5 sides-wise for obvious reasons but need to look more a dig deeper cuz it looks a bit tricky this wk & will probably incorporate 2/3 totals (Atl & Hou overs) as well. Balty +8 at home off a bye with Mia on a b2b roadie (prob good either way), Cleve +18 & Hou at +16 all look like they're worth lookin into -
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Nice job last week - did well myself. So far liking Indy +16 & Pitt +8.5 sides-wise for obvious reasons but need to look more a dig deeper cuz it looks a bit tricky this wk & will probably incorporate 2/3 totals (Atl & Hou overs) as well. Balty +8 at home off a bye with Mia on a b2b roadie (prob good either way), Cleve +18 & Hou at +16 all look like they're worth lookin into -
Nice job last week - did well myself. So far liking Indy +16 & Pitt +8.5 sides-wise for obvious reasons but need to look more a dig deeper cuz it looks a bit tricky this wk & will probably incorporate 2/3 totals (Atl & Hou overs) as well. Balty +8 at home off a bye with Mia on a b2b roadie (prob good either way), Cleve +18 & Hou at +16 all look like they're worth lookin into -
nice job last week, I am glad you made money...
I see where you are coming from with the IND pick, although trends would say to play PHI off of a bye week, I think that IND getting more then 2 TDs is a nice situation... I also wonder how Vick will do again the IND pass rush.... He may not be sacked alot (he might be), but the pressure might result in him having hurry throws and do things he is not comfortable doing...
PIT +8 looks like a good number and it really looks like there is no reason to jump off the wagon as have been money +13 points ATS... I actually think however that CIN +18 is the correct play from a situational standpoint...
Homedog playing a PIT team that has played 2 games in a row on the road and is going to playing its 3rd road game in a row...
BAL +8 seems good with a good number and you are riding another perfect team +13 points... ATL is perfect also...
CL +18 is an automatic play situationally and I will look into HOU...
Lets keep it up this season
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Quote Originally Posted by cashin:
Nice job last week - did well myself. So far liking Indy +16 & Pitt +8.5 sides-wise for obvious reasons but need to look more a dig deeper cuz it looks a bit tricky this wk & will probably incorporate 2/3 totals (Atl & Hou overs) as well. Balty +8 at home off a bye with Mia on a b2b roadie (prob good either way), Cleve +18 & Hou at +16 all look like they're worth lookin into -
nice job last week, I am glad you made money...
I see where you are coming from with the IND pick, although trends would say to play PHI off of a bye week, I think that IND getting more then 2 TDs is a nice situation... I also wonder how Vick will do again the IND pass rush.... He may not be sacked alot (he might be), but the pressure might result in him having hurry throws and do things he is not comfortable doing...
PIT +8 looks like a good number and it really looks like there is no reason to jump off the wagon as have been money +13 points ATS... I actually think however that CIN +18 is the correct play from a situational standpoint...
Homedog playing a PIT team that has played 2 games in a row on the road and is going to playing its 3rd road game in a row...
BAL +8 seems good with a good number and you are riding another perfect team +13 points... ATL is perfect also...
CL +18 is an automatic play situationally and I will look into HOU...
I agree with cleveland 100%, this is a mus take IMO. there's a reason why the books have kept this line at 4.5. Pinny has the browns juiced at -114. I think this will be a close game throughout. +17.5 is a nice number as well, passing both 14 and 17.
also looking at a total play. I know you don't like to take totals but i can't pass up getting chargers/texans over 37.5. Feel very confident that each team can get 21 points.
others i'm looking at...
Jets +8
Vikings +2 (I can't see them losing this game)
NYJ +8 is a nice number, but as weird as this sounds, I actually like DET + 18 in this game...
My thinking is that DET will score 2 TDs (at least 14 points)... which means that NYJ will have to score more then 30 points to break the cushion... So the bet to me is that NYJ does not score 30 points...
DET is also perfect this season +13 points ATS...
Tell me about your thoughts on MIN...
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Quote Originally Posted by XhuegoX:
sup bud...
I agree with cleveland 100%, this is a mus take IMO. there's a reason why the books have kept this line at 4.5. Pinny has the browns juiced at -114. I think this will be a close game throughout. +17.5 is a nice number as well, passing both 14 and 17.
also looking at a total play. I know you don't like to take totals but i can't pass up getting chargers/texans over 37.5. Feel very confident that each team can get 21 points.
others i'm looking at...
Jets +8
Vikings +2 (I can't see them losing this game)
NYJ +8 is a nice number, but as weird as this sounds, I actually like DET + 18 in this game...
My thinking is that DET will score 2 TDs (at least 14 points)... which means that NYJ will have to score more then 30 points to break the cushion... So the bet to me is that NYJ does not score 30 points...
dl - sounds good, every little bit of relevant info & insight helps.
Indy - think Philly will put up at least 17-21 but gotta take Manning outside of 2 tds.
Pitt - situationally & pointwise you're prob right on Cincy, but I just don't see 'em gettin it together vs the Pitt D & feel just slightly stronger with the Steelers.
Think Balty & Mia are both good, same with the Pats/Cleve -
Another 1 I'm starting to like is TB+22 with the way Freeman's going, emergence of Blount at RB the way they've played on the road. Atl with plenty of weapons & at home off a bye but still can't see 'em winning by 14/17 max.
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dl - sounds good, every little bit of relevant info & insight helps.
Indy - think Philly will put up at least 17-21 but gotta take Manning outside of 2 tds.
Pitt - situationally & pointwise you're prob right on Cincy, but I just don't see 'em gettin it together vs the Pitt D & feel just slightly stronger with the Steelers.
Think Balty & Mia are both good, same with the Pats/Cleve -
Another 1 I'm starting to like is TB+22 with the way Freeman's going, emergence of Blount at RB the way they've played on the road. Atl with plenty of weapons & at home off a bye but still can't see 'em winning by 14/17 max.
KC +16 KC has the best Run Offense in the league and OAK is horrible
against the run. This obv kills clock and keeps the raiders off the
field. Oak is gonna want to try and run the ball as well but KC ranks
7th in Run D. 16 pts is a ton of pts in a game like this where both
teams are gonna want to run the ball...
Indy +16 The last time Indy couldn't cover a +16 pt spread has to
be 10 years ago. I remember them getting pounded the last game of last
season but obv they were not trying. 16 pts is a ton of pts in the NFL
and just an absurd amount for Indy. Indy is gonna score on Phili so
that means Phili is gonna have to put up at least 40 for this not to
cover. Possible but highly unlikely.
NE +8 Could NE lose this game? Of course, it's the NFL but if I'm
gonna trust any team in the NFL not to get blown out by a horrible team
even on the road, it's Belichik and Tom Brady. As I see it, NE wins
this game 9 out of 10 games and when they lose, it's by a FG. There is
just no way they don't cover this against a rookie QB.
Houston +16 This line seems weird as Hou is underdogs at home
against SD who is 0-4 on the road with losses to KC, SEA, OAK and ST
LOUIE? This makes me think Vegas is begging
people to take Houston here. This line just reeks but I have to go with
my gut here. Hou plays well at home and Foster might be a top three RB
in the league. Johnson is getting healthier and they are playing at
home. Traditionally, SD tends to start out slow
and catch fire but have proven to be a terrible road team so I'm gonna
go with my gut here. Statistically, SD is second in run D but once
again they are marketable better at home. On the road, SD has given up
130+ yards to KC, 68 to SEA, 110+ to OAK without McFadden and 109 yards
to Steven Jackson. Foster has a big day here in my opinion. SD just
never blows out playoff teams on the road, hell they barely ever blow
out bottom feeders on the road.
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KC +16 KC has the best Run Offense in the league and OAK is horrible
against the run. This obv kills clock and keeps the raiders off the
field. Oak is gonna want to try and run the ball as well but KC ranks
7th in Run D. 16 pts is a ton of pts in a game like this where both
teams are gonna want to run the ball...
Indy +16 The last time Indy couldn't cover a +16 pt spread has to
be 10 years ago. I remember them getting pounded the last game of last
season but obv they were not trying. 16 pts is a ton of pts in the NFL
and just an absurd amount for Indy. Indy is gonna score on Phili so
that means Phili is gonna have to put up at least 40 for this not to
cover. Possible but highly unlikely.
NE +8 Could NE lose this game? Of course, it's the NFL but if I'm
gonna trust any team in the NFL not to get blown out by a horrible team
even on the road, it's Belichik and Tom Brady. As I see it, NE wins
this game 9 out of 10 games and when they lose, it's by a FG. There is
just no way they don't cover this against a rookie QB.
Houston +16 This line seems weird as Hou is underdogs at home
against SD who is 0-4 on the road with losses to KC, SEA, OAK and ST
LOUIE? This makes me think Vegas is begging
people to take Houston here. This line just reeks but I have to go with
my gut here. Hou plays well at home and Foster might be a top three RB
in the league. Johnson is getting healthier and they are playing at
home. Traditionally, SD tends to start out slow
and catch fire but have proven to be a terrible road team so I'm gonna
go with my gut here. Statistically, SD is second in run D but once
again they are marketable better at home. On the road, SD has given up
130+ yards to KC, 68 to SEA, 110+ to OAK without McFadden and 109 yards
to Steven Jackson. Foster has a big day here in my opinion. SD just
never blows out playoff teams on the road, hell they barely ever blow
out bottom feeders on the road.
Moss - like all those & would take the Pats over Cleve as well. Only thing that scares me about Hou is their D & the pressure it usually puts on their offense. Should be a relatively close & high scoring game & a couple of picks by SD at bad times could cause probs. Still, like Hou & will either use 'em or leave it alone -
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Moss - like all those & would take the Pats over Cleve as well. Only thing that scares me about Hou is their D & the pressure it usually puts on their offense. Should be a relatively close & high scoring game & a couple of picks by SD at bad times could cause probs. Still, like Hou & will either use 'em or leave it alone -
dl - sounds good, every little bit of relevant info & insight helps.
Indy - think Philly will put up at least 17-21 but gotta take Manning outside of 2 tds.
Pitt - situationally & pointwise you're prob right on Cincy, but I just don't see 'em gettin it together vs the Pitt D & feel just slightly stronger with the Steelers.
Think Balty & Mia are both good, same with the Pats/Cleve -
Another 1 I'm starting to like is TB+22 with the way Freeman's going, emergence of Blount at RB the way they've played on the road. Atl with plenty of weapons & at home off a bye but still can't see 'em winning by 14/17 max.
In theory TB is the correct play with that number... but I question their defense and against an ATL that had a blow out at home earlier this season, taking TB make me nervous...
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Quote Originally Posted by cashin:
dl - sounds good, every little bit of relevant info & insight helps.
Indy - think Philly will put up at least 17-21 but gotta take Manning outside of 2 tds.
Pitt - situationally & pointwise you're prob right on Cincy, but I just don't see 'em gettin it together vs the Pitt D & feel just slightly stronger with the Steelers.
Think Balty & Mia are both good, same with the Pats/Cleve -
Another 1 I'm starting to like is TB+22 with the way Freeman's going, emergence of Blount at RB the way they've played on the road. Atl with plenty of weapons & at home off a bye but still can't see 'em winning by 14/17 max.
In theory TB is the correct play with that number... but I question their defense and against an ATL that had a blow out at home earlier this season, taking TB make me nervous...
Hear ya on TB but anything outside 3 tds in the NFL is a serious boatload & I like the way TB is looking. If you can get Det over +17, might want to consider them as well. At home in the dome & with their throwin gm, they should put up at least 14/17 minimum & I doubt the Jets can cover that on the rd outside +17. Think Jets win & maybe cover, but like Det to hang at home. Thoughts?
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Hear ya on TB but anything outside 3 tds in the NFL is a serious boatload & I like the way TB is looking. If you can get Det over +17, might want to consider them as well. At home in the dome & with their throwin gm, they should put up at least 14/17 minimum & I doubt the Jets can cover that on the rd outside +17. Think Jets win & maybe cover, but like Det to hang at home. Thoughts?
KC +16 KC has the best Run Offense in the league and OAK is horrible
against the run. This obv kills clock and keeps the raiders off the
field. Oak is gonna want to try and run the ball as well but KC ranks
7th in Run D. 16 pts is a ton of pts in a game like this where both
teams are gonna want to run the ball...
Indy +16 The last time Indy couldn't cover a +16 pt spread has to
be 10 years ago. I remember them getting pounded the last game of last
season but obv they were not trying. 16 pts is a ton of pts in the NFL
and just an absurd amount for Indy. Indy is gonna score on Phili so
that means Phili is gonna have to put up at least 40 for this not to
cover. Possible but highly unlikely.
NE +8 Could NE lose this game? Of course, it's the NFL but if I'm
gonna trust any team in the NFL not to get blown out by a horrible team
even on the road, it's Belichik and Tom Brady. As I see it, NE wins
this game 9 out of 10 games and when they lose, it's by a FG. There is
just no way they don't cover this against a rookie QB.
Houston +16 This line seems weird as Hou is underdogs at home
against SD who is 0-4 on the road with losses to KC, SEA, OAK and ST
LOUIE? This makes me think Vegas is begging
people to take Houston here. This line just reeks but I have to go with
my gut here. Hou plays well at home and Foster might be a top three RB
in the league. Johnson is getting healthier and they are playing at
home. Traditionally, SD tends to start out slow
and catch fire but have proven to be a terrible road team so I'm gonna
go with my gut here. Statistically, SD is second in run D but once
again they are marketable better at home. On the road, SD has given up
130+ yards to KC, 68 to SEA, 110+ to OAK without McFadden and 109 yards
to Steven Jackson. Foster has a big day here in my opinion. SD just
never blows out playoff teams on the road, hell they barely ever blow
out bottom feeders on the road.
I actually like the KC +16 for similar reasons but also because KC can run the ball... they basically have a running back by committee with two guys that could be starters on other teams...
I will look into the numbers on the date that IND lost a game but 16 or more points and get back to you....
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Quote Originally Posted by MossPaysCash:
KC +16 KC has the best Run Offense in the league and OAK is horrible
against the run. This obv kills clock and keeps the raiders off the
field. Oak is gonna want to try and run the ball as well but KC ranks
7th in Run D. 16 pts is a ton of pts in a game like this where both
teams are gonna want to run the ball...
Indy +16 The last time Indy couldn't cover a +16 pt spread has to
be 10 years ago. I remember them getting pounded the last game of last
season but obv they were not trying. 16 pts is a ton of pts in the NFL
and just an absurd amount for Indy. Indy is gonna score on Phili so
that means Phili is gonna have to put up at least 40 for this not to
cover. Possible but highly unlikely.
NE +8 Could NE lose this game? Of course, it's the NFL but if I'm
gonna trust any team in the NFL not to get blown out by a horrible team
even on the road, it's Belichik and Tom Brady. As I see it, NE wins
this game 9 out of 10 games and when they lose, it's by a FG. There is
just no way they don't cover this against a rookie QB.
Houston +16 This line seems weird as Hou is underdogs at home
against SD who is 0-4 on the road with losses to KC, SEA, OAK and ST
LOUIE? This makes me think Vegas is begging
people to take Houston here. This line just reeks but I have to go with
my gut here. Hou plays well at home and Foster might be a top three RB
in the league. Johnson is getting healthier and they are playing at
home. Traditionally, SD tends to start out slow
and catch fire but have proven to be a terrible road team so I'm gonna
go with my gut here. Statistically, SD is second in run D but once
again they are marketable better at home. On the road, SD has given up
130+ yards to KC, 68 to SEA, 110+ to OAK without McFadden and 109 yards
to Steven Jackson. Foster has a big day here in my opinion. SD just
never blows out playoff teams on the road, hell they barely ever blow
out bottom feeders on the road.
I actually like the KC +16 for similar reasons but also because KC can run the ball... they basically have a running back by committee with two guys that could be starters on other teams...
I will look into the numbers on the date that IND lost a game but 16 or more points and get back to you....
Won my 13pt teaser last week with buffalo, tampa, houston, greenbay.
This week I'm rolling with
buffalo +16 hosting chicago, tampa +21.5 at atlanta, miami +18 at baltimore, arizona +21 @minnesota
buffalo could win straight up and chicago isnt gonna beat anybody going away without a running game. tampa could lose by 10 or 13 worst case, but >3 tds I dont think so. if baltimore needs overtime to beat the bills, they arent going to blow out the fish. cardinals stink but vikings arent beating anybody by 3 tds.
gl everyone.
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Won my 13pt teaser last week with buffalo, tampa, houston, greenbay.
This week I'm rolling with
buffalo +16 hosting chicago, tampa +21.5 at atlanta, miami +18 at baltimore, arizona +21 @minnesota
buffalo could win straight up and chicago isnt gonna beat anybody going away without a running game. tampa could lose by 10 or 13 worst case, but >3 tds I dont think so. if baltimore needs overtime to beat the bills, they arent going to blow out the fish. cardinals stink but vikings arent beating anybody by 3 tds.
I actually like the KC +16 for similar reasons but also because KC can run the ball... they basically have a running back by committee with two guys that could be starters on other teams...
I will look into the numbers on the date that IND lost a game but 16 or more points and get back to you....
Last year (2009) IND lost to BUF... 30-7...
But since Manning was resting...
The year before that (2008) IND lost GB 34-14 and Manning did play in the game...
In 2006 IND lost to JAX 44-17
so 3 out of the last 4 years IND has lost by more then 16 points each season...
NFL is a such a perception league when it comes to QBs... but history shows that it can and will happen...
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Quote Originally Posted by dl36:
I actually like the KC +16 for similar reasons but also because KC can run the ball... they basically have a running back by committee with two guys that could be starters on other teams...
I will look into the numbers on the date that IND lost a game but 16 or more points and get back to you....
Last year (2009) IND lost to BUF... 30-7...
But since Manning was resting...
The year before that (2008) IND lost GB 34-14 and Manning did play in the game...
In 2006 IND lost to JAX 44-17
so 3 out of the last 4 years IND has lost by more then 16 points each season...
NFL is a such a perception league when it comes to QBs... but history shows that it can and will happen...
NE +7.5 - Billichick will not overlook this game as against his nemesis, ex-assistant Mangini (Spygate). Cle beat NO but got outgained 2-1 and NO making 4 TO, including 2 INT ret for TD (NE don't beat themselves). NE def weakness is passing and don't see McCoy exploiting that. Hard to see NE losing by TD+.
Boy was I wrong on Jets last wk, cost me a bundle.
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NE +7.5 - Billichick will not overlook this game as against his nemesis, ex-assistant Mangini (Spygate). Cle beat NO but got outgained 2-1 and NO making 4 TO, including 2 INT ret for TD (NE don't beat themselves). NE def weakness is passing and don't see McCoy exploiting that. Hard to see NE losing by TD+.
Boy was I wrong on Jets last wk, cost me a bundle.
MIA +18 is an interesting one as I am assuming that you are playing this because you see this as a closer game ... There is a apart of me that also like BAL +8...
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Quote Originally Posted by TRAIN69:
Miami +18
Colts +16
KC +15.5
Hou +16
Looks good in theory... nice numbers...
MIA +18 is an interesting one as I am assuming that you are playing this because you see this as a closer game ... There is a apart of me that also like BAL +8...
Moss - like all those & would take the Pats over Cleve as well. Only thing that scares me about Hou is their D & the pressure it usually puts on their offense. Should be a relatively close & high scoring game & a couple of picks by SD at bad times could cause probs. Still, like Hou & will either use 'em or leave it alone -
SD can also score quickly and do well in a game that requires them to score +30 points.
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Quote Originally Posted by cashin:
Moss - like all those & would take the Pats over Cleve as well. Only thing that scares me about Hou is their D & the pressure it usually puts on their offense. Should be a relatively close & high scoring game & a couple of picks by SD at bad times could cause probs. Still, like Hou & will either use 'em or leave it alone -
SD can also score quickly and do well in a game that requires them to score +30 points.
NE +7.5 - Billichick will not overlook this game as against his nemesis, ex-assistant Mangini (Spygate). Cle beat NO but got outgained 2-1 and NO making 4 TO, including 2 INT ret for TD (NE don't beat themselves). NE def weakness is passing and don't see McCoy exploiting that. Hard to see NE losing by TD+.
Boy was I wrong on Jets last wk, cost me a bundle.
you are probably correct on the NE play and with the possible grudge of spygate, I can see the possibility of a blow out... good number also by covering the 7...
this is how ever one of my prime plays on CLE...
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Quote Originally Posted by gmitran:
NE +7.5 - Billichick will not overlook this game as against his nemesis, ex-assistant Mangini (Spygate). Cle beat NO but got outgained 2-1 and NO making 4 TO, including 2 INT ret for TD (NE don't beat themselves). NE def weakness is passing and don't see McCoy exploiting that. Hard to see NE losing by TD+.
Boy was I wrong on Jets last wk, cost me a bundle.
you are probably correct on the NE play and with the possible grudge of spygate, I can see the possibility of a blow out... good number also by covering the 7...
Won my 13pt teaser last week with buffalo, tampa, houston, greenbay.
This week I'm rolling with
buffalo +16 hosting chicago, tampa +21.5 at atlanta, miami +18 at baltimore, arizona +21 @minnesota
buffalo could win straight up and chicago isnt gonna beat anybody going away without a running game. tampa could lose by 10 or 13 worst case, but >3 tds I dont think so. if baltimore needs overtime to beat the bills, they arent going to blow out the fish. cardinals stink but vikings arent beating anybody by 3 tds.
gl everyone.
nice job on your teaser last week, lets keep it rolling...
TB is the scariest game on your board for me... I dont necessarily have a problem with BUF, but I think that the BUF offensive will need to put up points to stay close if CHI's offense is able to be productive...
not sure about the ARZ play, but fading MIN +13 points ATS this is year has been money...
GL
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Quote Originally Posted by Howard_Jughes:
Won my 13pt teaser last week with buffalo, tampa, houston, greenbay.
This week I'm rolling with
buffalo +16 hosting chicago, tampa +21.5 at atlanta, miami +18 at baltimore, arizona +21 @minnesota
buffalo could win straight up and chicago isnt gonna beat anybody going away without a running game. tampa could lose by 10 or 13 worst case, but >3 tds I dont think so. if baltimore needs overtime to beat the bills, they arent going to blow out the fish. cardinals stink but vikings arent beating anybody by 3 tds.
gl everyone.
nice job on your teaser last week, lets keep it rolling...
TB is the scariest game on your board for me... I dont necessarily have a problem with BUF, but I think that the BUF offensive will need to put up points to stay close if CHI's offense is able to be productive...
not sure about the ARZ play, but fading MIN +13 points ATS this is year has been money...
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