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Author: [Politics] Topic: If you don't like it here, why don't you just leave?
AcerRubrum send a private message View Space | Friends | Playbook |
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#76
Posted: 4/22/2012 10:08:21 AM
Quotes from Norman Thomas (1884 - 1968):

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

"I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform."
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#77
Posted: 4/22/2012 10:12:21 AM
Ace, the icing on the cake is, the Repuke party couldn't care less if Mitt wins the election, they already have their corporate stooge in the White House


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#78
Posted: 4/22/2012 10:32:01 AM
lesser of two evils...one just getting there slower :-( ...

we need a middle ground 3rd party but that aint ever going to happen

sadly....I have lost hope ...but I am on the way out and not the way in...toooooooo many lies and toooo much bullshit and spin....

We the People get reamed in the process and in a decade or so AMERICA will be 'history' .....  at least it will be a much much much different AMERIKA  

hard to find positives today.....  so much garbage out there senseless to believe any of those politicians on EITHER SIDE for the most part
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#79
Posted: 4/22/2012 11:10:45 AM
QUOTE Originally Posted by be easy:



hilarious how many different people do NOTHING BUT find fault in the right, and then by default consider themselves supporters of the democrat party

But somehow, NONE OF THEM want to own the Democrat party as their own, which is guess might be a good thing, IF they didn't all go out and blindly for all things democrat. Hell, i've read some on here that claim to be conservative, spend all their time railing against right wing religious crazies (a figment of their imagination) , and then go so far as to FUND THE FASCIST LEFT

Anyone self respecting American that could vote for any pol that supports Obamacare
Be easy, I realize the green party has flaws. I don’t support everything they stand for. I will say the green party is better than the blue or red party. It’s not that I don’t care about taxes, it’s that I choose not to put that on top of my priorities list. You tell me that if you were forced to choose between Fidel Castro and Adolph Hitler, that you would choose Hitler?

If you put the democrats on one side and the republicans on the other and you force me to pick. I’m gonna pick the democrats every time because of the never ending list that disturbingly wrong with the republican side. Green is not going to be on the ballot this year.

So, I can pick blue or red and not green. I gonna pick blue by default. I know what I’m voting for in this years election and so do all republicans. I do agree that democrats have NO idea what they are voting for and republicans like what the republican party stands for and the democrats have NO clue what they are voting for.

Democrats vote blindly for socialist communism and republicans proudly vote for authoritarian theocratic idiocy. I can see that you, be easy, side with republicans for fiscal and tax reasons, unfortunately a solid majority of republicans vote for a sick bigoted megalomaniac theocratic ideology and not for fiscal and tax reasons.

Like I said, the green party has things that I don’t agree with but it’s better than what we have now. I would put Ron Paul and Ralph Nader in a room and let them come up with solutions for progress. The democrats get my vote by default and I guess the green party gets my recommendation by default as well.
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#80
Posted: 4/22/2012 11:25:03 AM
MONEY...I respect your views and agree with most...only I will vote for RP even if it takes a write in to do it.....

call it a waste or whatever...but it IS MY vote!

so tired of the SOS red and blue bullshit..... seems like the extremes on both sides are running the Parties..  :-( 

crazy .....

JFK would be a Republican in the eyes of today's Democrats more than likely....

hard to find much sanity anywhere in WASH DC....and harder to find ethics and honesty !
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#81
Posted: 4/22/2012 11:39:02 AM
AcerRubrum, I completely agree that extremes on both sides have completely taken over.

It would be nice to see voters protest the election and write in Ron Paul. If you still have doubts on my belief that republicans are morons.

Republicans had a chance to defeat Obama, change the US for the better, and change the world by picking Ron Paul but idiocy prevailed and they chose theocratic cultist nutcase Romney.
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#82
Posted: 4/22/2012 11:52:47 AM
like I said America loses with either!.....just how long does it take for We the People to realize it?
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#83
Posted: 4/22/2012 12:24:24 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AcerRubrum:

like I said America loses with either!.....just how long does it take for We the People to realize it?
I used to believe America would wake up but now not so much. You can go back to the Nixon era to see when America began to self destruct. It became worse every year after Nixon. Politicians and the people became dumber and dumber every year since Nixon was in the white house. I truly believe we age regressing as a people to the point of no return. I think a meteor has to eliminate the population and start from scratch again.
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#84
Posted: 4/22/2012 12:43:21 PM
sadly I agree.....the dumbing of Amerika...in it the NORM on campuses nationwide...  everyone is a victim of something...more govt is needed more laws more more more ....

I truly thought there was HOPE with Kennedy (and I was raised in a Conservative Republican business environment !)....but that ended

biggest waste EVER = NAM ....  and the insanity continues to this day.  WE LEARN NOTHING!!!!!

Ron Paul !!!!!! 




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#85
Posted: 4/22/2012 2:02:28 PM
AcerRubrum, imagine if Ron Paul was elected. The war on drugs and the war on terror would both end.

Businesses would be able to grow. Rights would be given to the people again. Four thousand laws or more would be eliminated.

The prison system would be changed. The entire way our government works would be changed from top to bottom. Now that’s hope and change.
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#86
Posted: 4/22/2012 5:57:32 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by AcerRubrum:

Quotes from Norman Thomas (1884 - 1968):

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened."

"I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform."
 

Although I believe not all democrats are liberals and, not all republicans are conservatives; for my 2 cents I also believe most democrats are socialists and most republicans are conservative.

 

Either way, Acer, the quote you submitted was certainly prescient, wasn't it.   

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#87
Posted: 4/23/2012 12:39:10 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by DiscoD69:


My point is that you cannot possibly think you have it WORSE in the USA than the people of Egypt had it during the Mubarak era. Especially in terms of various options, and protections of speech and right to protest etc. Everything you say in this post to justify an armed uprising can be applied to the Egypt example. It's illogical to say 'it can't possibly happen like that' (peacefully) when it already has, and it happened under more unlikely circumstances.


The likelihood of peaceful protests bringing meaningful change and reforms is logically much much much greater in the USA under Obama etc. than in the Middle East in countries like Egypt with decades old dictatorships. 

I'm not saying arming yourself can't work, or isn't another means. Logically it is. It's just a disaster in waiting, and like I said will involve massive los of life. For no reason, when it CAN be done peacefully. They can beat 1, or 10, or 100 protesters to protect the interests of only the 1%... but they can't beat 1,000,000  or 10,000,000 protestors. 

I'm thankful for the wise people in this forum who turned me onto Twitter. The only 'occupy' feed I follow is #OCCUPY CONGRESS (@OCongress), because that's the only one that matters if you want to achieve reform through peaceful protest.


In this sense, OCongress = Tahrir Square 

After Egypt was absorbed into the Islamic world, it surrendered sovereignty under multi-Islamic monarchs, including the Ottoman Empire. After the fall of Ottoman (Turkish) rule in WW1, Britain endowed itself with political administration over Egypt before granting it independence, governed then by a king, until the early 50s. The last Egyptian king was overthrown by the military under the command of Gamal Abdel Nasser, his successor, Anwar Sadat, ruled until he was assassinated in the early 80s, which brought Mubarak (National Democratic Party), sponsored by Washington, to power immediately after, until his removal last year, when the position of affairs was no longer sustainable and it emerged, the populace in the East under Sunni Islam, were no longer fearful of their western sponsored rulers, as seen in Tunisia e.c.t., but a percentage of the populace in America (western society) under the sphere of democracy, became frightened by its leaders. Mubarak wasn’t overthrown by the hand of peaceful protestors; there was a foreign political hand, as has been the circumstance in Egypt since the fall of the New Kingdom when the final legitimate pharaoh was abolished by the Romans, which since then, has had foreign masters and not had an indigenous rule over it. The Tahrir uprising was not headed by secular democratic forces, instead Egypt returned to the exhausted old order of rule under the military, who went after the "businessmen's cabinet" of Ahmed Nazif that provided Egypt with the transient economic growth through relaxation of govt. restrictions in the areas of economic policy, when the military Junta was enthusiastic to assert its representatives with the people who abet Islamic diehards, forcing financiers out of the country and placing fear into the Coptic community.

To model such a debate on “peace” in this circumstance, even in the U.S., is worthless, because it requires an imaginary type of norm of perfection to be aimed at circumstances that have cipher to do with reality. Reality surfaces as the product of a particular fact, event or case. Is it not more beneficial to think in ways beyond a direction that endeavors to, explain, vindicate and consequently demand the prescribed ritual of satisfying desires (disarmament and peace movements), with imaginary treatment in comparative disregard of reality, otherwise, when grievances confront a set of circumstances that are not conceivable in a exposition of principles and formal thought, your process-style of thinking breaks down in the realms of disorder. The actual point of truth is that not all objects of thought that can be expressed in the mind, subsist, and can be applied in the real world. To simply focus on the end result (peace) and use it to permeate through the entire process of behavior along the way to achieving such political concession (desire), is simply not in working harmony with the agents of reality, unless one subscribes to the way of the technocrat. Any individual, who cannot see alternate means beyond a peaceful resistance, cannot see beyond party lines. Eastern philosophy thinks extremely different to Western philosophy; you simply cannot use Western philosophy to make any resemblance in essentials between movements that thinks in Eastern philosophy, as in the case of Egypt. African and Middle Eastern states who seek democracy, don’t necessarily clamor for Western-models of democracy to award equal rights to women or endow minorities with religious and sexual orientation freedoms.

The uniqueness of Washington’s anomalous lies beneath its exception, and for this, Egypt is an antithetical comparison. America is without a national disposition rooted in antiquity, but instead characterized by ideology and for this, Egypt is an antithetical comparison in reciprocal roles. This ideology-driven way of thinking has allowed the two-party system in the U.S., if combined, to not even represent in a comparison, a single political wing of democratic systems of commonwealth countries. This is the U.S., where citizenry begin any fight from a disadvantageous position, where corp. power can lobby the legal system to rally against judicial compassion towards being found not guilty or the lessening of sentencing and parole standards, which all jeopardize the corp. enterprise commerce of this fascist system that seek a thin layer of tolerance, that abets the current administration who empowered the C.I.A. counterterrorism operations to launch drone missiles outside the borders of war zones in Egypt, killing innocent civilians.

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#88
Posted: 4/23/2012 12:41:57 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by be easy:

Because you're not allowed to do that, either,,,,,

link

A bill that nobody is paying any attention to is sailing through Congress: Senate Bill 1813. It passed the Senate by 74 to 22, and is expected to sail through the House as well. It’s an act “[t]o reauthorize Federal-aid highway and highway safety construction programs, and for other purposes.”

It’s the “and for other purposes” part of the title that has me worried—specifically Section 40304: “Revocation or denial of passport in case of certain unpaid taxes.

This section would give the IRS the power to keep a U.S. citizen from traveling—

—and it’s another example of Executive Power run amok. It’s another example of how the United States is turning into a police-state.

The right to travel freely is sacrosanct—it’s not some privilege that the government bestows on us: It’s one of our basic freedoms as citizens. In point of fact, the countries that have limited their citizens’ ability to travel—the Soviet Union, the People’s Republic of China, North Korea, Cuba—were all rightfully called “police-states”: It’s one of their defining characteristics—the fact that they were keeping their citizens hostage.


Welcome to the fascist states of the americas, one big open air prison, run by the police state. You are free, to operate within their strictly defined, and impossible to adhere to, set of rules. Freedom,,,,it's just another word 

The Berlin War was not built to keep capitalists from getting in.

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#89
Posted: 4/23/2012 12:43:17 PM
*Wall.
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#90
Posted: 4/23/2012 12:54:19 PM
Selkooth, very well written and articulated post.
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#91
Posted: 4/23/2012 12:57:43 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by MoneySRH:

AcerRubrum, imagine if Ron Paul was elected. The war on drugs and the war on terror would both end.

Businesses would be able to grow. Rights would be given to the people again. Four thousand laws or more would be eliminated.

The prison system would be changed. The entire way our government works would be changed from top to bottom. Now that’s hope and change.



that WOULD be a miracle given the sheep in this country

we can dream.....   
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#92
Posted: 4/23/2012 1:00:15 PM
QUOTE

Originally Posted by AcerRubrum:

MONEY...I respect your views and agree with most...only I will vote for RP even if it takes a write in to do it.....

call it a waste or whatever...but it IS MY vote!

so tired of the SOS red and blue bullshit..... seems like the extremes on both sides are running the Parties..  :-( 

crazy .....

JFK would be a Republican in the eyes of today's Democrats more than likely....

hard to find much sanity anywhere in WASH DC....and harder to find ethics and honesty !

I'm with you buddy

I'm not compromising my beliefs to vote for someone that may have a better chance at winning(Romney or Obama). I don't view a vote for Paul as a wasted vote, as so many do. I view it as a statement and my voice being heard.

I want to be able to say I tried my best even if Romney or Obama win. I want to be able to say I didn't vote for this when nothing changes.

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#93
Posted: 4/23/2012 5:27:05 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by selkooth:

(POST #87)


I don't even know how to respond to all of this. You are bringing in a variety of issues that don't necessarily negate my point, considering we're talking about a hypothetical event in the USA that hasn't occurred either way (peaceful or armed revolt). You can't just completely dismiss the possibility of gaining reform through peace as impossible. Maybe it is, more likely it isn't.

Also, I know there are specific differences between the US and Egyptian society, obviously. Again, that doesn't negate my overall point.

Here is my issue, you are ignoring an important distinction between what you posted in support of your argument and what took place in Egypt. There was not a widespread armed revolt against the Mubarak government. There were however, tens of thousands of peaceful demonstrators in Tahrir Sqaure that spent days and days demanding political, social, and economical reforms without bloodshed. I'm not saying that politics wasn't being played behind the scenes, it still is, and in fact the people of Egypt are still protesting these political games.

People are still peacefully protesting in Tahrir, there were HUGE demonstations last week. I don't think you can continue to ignore this aspect of what happened, when it is still happening. How much proof do you need?

It is a fluid situation, and a result of a variety of internal and some external pressures. It's naive to say one thing specifically caused all this, or that we will know all of the effects and possible outcomes. It is somewhat naive of me to say doing it peacefully was a 'success' at this point, considering it's not really over. It's therefore equally, or probably more absurd for you to say either 'it wasn't peaceful protest' or 'peaceful protest can't work' because it has generally been successful.

You are obviously a bright guy with an eye for history. Please do not ignore this aspect when you look back on this in the future.

Also, thanks for breaking down your post into paragraphs. Even if you are equally as conservative in your use of the 'return' key as you are in your political views, every little bit of liberalism helps us all (on both fronts). 
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#94
Posted: 4/23/2012 7:08:17 PM
QUOTE Originally Posted by Ktrain:

I'm with you buddy

I'm not compromising my beliefs to vote for someone that may have a better chance at winning(Romney or Obama). I don't view a vote for Paul as a wasted vote, as so many do. I view it as a statement and my voice being heard.

I want to be able to say I tried my best even if Romney or Obama win. I want to be able to say I didn't vote for this when nothing changes.

 right on k-train
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