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Author:	[NHL Betting] Topic: Phaneuf to the Leafs
Gee_Gee	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 1071 Location: Canada	#201 Posted: 2/2/2010 12:53:53 PM MLB Guru I usually always agree with you, but I have to disagree on a few things you are arguing. You keep making kessel out to be a guy that has no potential and has done nothing. You say he hasnt reached 30 goals before you quickly corrected yourself. Look this guy is only 22 years old. he scored 36 goals as a 21 year old in 70 games, how can you downplay that? Its amazing how often the kessel trade gets brought up regardless of what the thread is about. Look most people will agree that the kessel trade was bad, but we cannot say that for sure until at least a few more years, because we do not know if hall is going to be the next crosby like all of you are making him out to be, we simply don't know, and we don't know what position the leafs will be picking. In two years kessel might be a 50 goal scorer you simply do not know.. And as for Phaneuf, yes he had a bad year by hi sstandards last year, BUT everyone makes him out to be someone that is washed up and has no chance of improvement. This guy is 24 years old, and is a career +19, not near a minus at all. Yes people say he's had some defensive lapses, but this guy has a very high ceiling as far as potential, and a change of scenery might do him good. The fact of the matter is that the leafs got the best player out of this trade, hands down. Stajan has never been productive, and both he and hagman will probably never be as productive as they were in toronto because they were getting first line minutes there.
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Gee_Gee	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 1071 Location: Canada	#202 Posted: 2/2/2010 1:06:54 PM I agree that White has been solid the last 2 years, but whites best year thus far isnt as good as phaneufs worst year. And yes white is certainly cheap right now, but at the end of the season he is a RFA and I am guessing he will be getting a raise probably around the 3 mil range safely, thus the flames might not even be able to retain him and whites , and mayers and stajan are both ufa's after the year. And nobody seems to be mentioning keith aulie. This guy is huge and has been compared to tyler myers. Obviosuly he has not yet been as successful, but he was a world junior player that has been playing solid D in the WHL and is only 20 years old. Aulie was a key piece of this trade. He has the potential to become a solid D man in the nhl. This trade was basically hagman, white and stajan for phaneuf and aulie. With the leafs getting the best player right now, who can still improve, and the youngest, most promising prospect, while the flames might not even retain white or stajan, only being left with hagman.
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JoMidnight	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Prospect Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 44 Location: Canada	#203 Posted: 2/2/2010 1:28:32 PM Strange deal from Houston North's perspective. I am wondering if Avery's "2nd's" had any impact on this? That suspension is just another reason Bettman is a disaster; no consistency for what should constitute a suspension. If he had the misfortune to have resided in that agglomeration of people he would realize Avery was just giving the guys a heads up on Female Paradise and for this he is suspended? I intend to purchase a Rangers jersey with his number and on the back: "NoCal2nds" Or firsts for that matter. Will Alberta hockey ever be competitive? Will Canada ever win a cup? Bettman is a complete joke.
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MLBguru	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com \|
Veteran Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 4007 Location: Ontario	#204 Posted: 2/2/2010 2:01:31 PM I never said Kessel has done nothing....I simply said that you cannot label him a high end offensive talent yet or a 50 goal caliber type of guy. As for Phaneuf, I disagree. White has played better than Phaneuf this year and at a fraction of the cost. Obviously Phaneuf has some upside as he could regain his form....but that's a big 'if'. Best player in the deal....sure...but 4 guys went the other way. Statjan was top 50 in NHL scoring, Hagman 20 goal scorer + White who has shown he can be a reliable NHL D-man. It'd be different if you were getting a leader as well....but by all accounts this guy is just as hollywood as Sean Avery...argument with the coach in public, argument with veteran and classy vets ala Reghr.
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OLDPORT	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 5604 Location: Ontario	#205 Posted: 2/2/2010 2:17:52 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by leafs1789: *kessel, hes a potential 50 goal man* There's a better chance he's going to be Phaneuf "girl" before that happens
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Gee_Gee	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 1071 Location: Canada	#206 Posted: 2/2/2010 2:46:51 PM At some point it becomes pointless to argue. One thing is certain, and it's that if the leafs do anything right it will not be acknowledged by a non-leaf fan. Its rare that a guy who scores 36 goals in 70 games as a 21 year old receives as much scrutiny as Kessel does. This thread was about the phaneuf trade, but all the leaf haters have to show up and bring up the kessel trade. Its funny how people laugh at someone like kessel having potential or possibly becoming a top 10 sniper in the league. It certianly cannot be thrown out of the realm of possibility. What is even sadder is that people cannot just enjoy cheering for their own team but instead must choose the "team that everybody hates" to try to show how much they know because they can bash a struggling team
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MLBguru	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com \|
Veteran Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 4007 Location: Ontario	#207 Posted: 2/2/2010 3:01:21 PM Toronto is known for being arrogant in regards to their hockey club. Every year it's the same story just with different players. Anybody the Leafs sign could be a 50 goal sniper, a franchise D-man or a lockdown goalie. While everyone they give up is labelled garbage (including picks who have yet to be drafted) There is no bias view in Toronto and it starts with the networks, spewing a Torontonian view of hockey instead of a unbiased view. Even now I still have to read headlines in regards to making the playoffs this season....it's delusional and its annoying. Lots of guys Kessel's age have put up better numbers. Age is irrelevant in that argument. 36 goals in one season playing alongside one of the best playmakers in the game does not constitute the hype you give him. Jason Blake put up 40+....so we all know how that played out.
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leafs4life	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Rookie Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 779 Location: Canada	#208 Posted: 2/2/2010 3:04:25 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Gee_Gee: At some point it becomes pointless to argue. One thing is certain, and it's that if the leafs do anything right it will not be acknowledged by a non-leaf fan. Its rare that a guy who scores 36 goals in 70 games as a 21 year old receives as much scrutiny as Kessel does. This thread was about the phaneuf trade, but all the leaf haters have to show up and bring up the kessel trade. Its funny how people laugh at someone like kessel having potential or possibly becoming a top 10 sniper in the league. It certianly cannot be thrown out of the realm of possibility. What is even sadder is that people cannot just enjoy cheering for their own team but instead must choose the "team that everybody hates" to try to show how much they know because they can bash a struggling team
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MLBguru	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com \|
Veteran Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 4007 Location: Ontario	#209 Posted: 2/2/2010 3:06:51 PM What if it wasn't Kessel but rather say David Booth or Bryan Little....or even Loui Eriksson? You could make the same argument with those guys (young guys with a 30+ goal season) You wouldn't use your arguments for Kessel with those 3 guys. But in reality those 3 and others have just as good a chance as Kessel.
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OLDPORT	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 5604 Location: Ontario	#210 Posted: 2/2/2010 3:06:55 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Gee_Gee: At some point it becomes pointless to argue. One thing is certain, and it's that if the leafs do anything right it will not be acknowledged by a non-leaf fan. long time HARDCORE Leaf fan here and let me tell you that from my experiences with this organization that I have every reason to believe that this team does nothing right no matter who's at the helm. Untill whoever the darn owns this team sell it, *NOTHING* will ever change they just make WAY to much MONEY to even give a garbage about winning let alone bring a Stanley Cup here....
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OLDPORT	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 5604 Location: Ontario	#211 Posted: 2/2/2010 3:13:49 PM Oh and I forgot to mention... Brian Burke is a Genius
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thornton6	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com \|
Veteran Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: Ontario	#212 Posted: 2/2/2010 3:26:24 PM Kessel scoring 50 not likely and i would take Hall or Seguin over Kessel any day Hall aint going to be a bust did you not watch him in the World Jrs. He is alot better than the Leaf pick Kadri i have to say! MLBguru again i agree 6.5 for Phaneuf is to much money and White is less money and will be effective Calgary needed a right handed dee man anyways. Again Phaneuf not making team Canada tells me he wasn't picked because one performance and two his off ice issues. The Leafs fans need to realize look at the Hawks build through the draft look at the line-up they have Toews, Kane, Bolland, Versteeg, Duncan, Seabrooke, Barker! Thats 7 players better than every Leaf Burke has drafted. Once you get a core of players through the draft you add pieces like Kessel and Phaneuf. Burke gave Boston the first pick potential over all why for Kessel. No need to make that deal Boston wasn't paying Kessel that huge salary, they let te Leafs do it and got 2 first rounders in the process knowing full well they would get a lottery pick this year.
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leafs4life	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Rookie Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 779 Location: Canada	#213 Posted: 2/2/2010 10:32:08 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by MLBguru: Your excuse for why he is a plus rating is weak. And now you base judgements on their 1st game on a new team. Can't wait to see Giggy and Phaneuf exposed tonight.
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thornton6	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com \|
Veteran Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: Ontario	#214 Posted: 2/2/2010 10:52:42 PM Relax leafs4life one game against New Jersey who played there worst game of the year! Plus no Brodeur that always helps. One game aint going to tell you anything. Phaneuf didn't run around like he has in Calgary all year that will change as the year goes on.
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Flutiemaniac341	RSI View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports \|
Hall of Fame Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 20657 Location: British Columbia	#215 Posted: 2/2/2010 10:52:45 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by leafs4life: Wow you must really hate toronto to put stupid garbage like this on here. Toronto finally got a big name player and people try to cut him up already. Its funny people always loved Phaneuf, but now that he is in Toronto everyone is saying what a piece of garbage he is. All you haters just remember when your team comes to are town one of your players just might get knocked the darn out I have never ever appreciated Phaneuf's play. if you look in last months most overrated player thread. wiggins and myself each nominated dion phaneuf as most overrated. just because i dont bleed blue and white doesnt mean i need to bend over to appreciate the "supposed" center of the universe of hockey. i heard the same whiny comments from leafs fans when i predicted during the off season that theyd finish in the cellar this year. now i suppose the leafs are winning the cup after one game in toronto. you guys sure know ur stuff.
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thornton6	RSI View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com \|
Veteran Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1239 Location: Ontario	#216 Posted: 2/2/2010 10:55:57 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Flutiemaniac341: I have never ever appreciated Phaneuf's play. if you look in last months most overrated player thread. wiggins and myself each nominated dion phaneuf as most overrated. just because i dont bleed blue and white doesnt mean i need to bend over to appreciate the "supposed" center of the universe of hockey. i heard the same whiny comments from leafs fans when i predicted during the off season that theyd finish in the cellar this year. now i suppose the leafs are winning the cup after one game in toronto. you guys sure know ur stuff. Well said Flutimaniac341 its one game without Brodeur in the net and now the Leafs are great!
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Flutiemaniac341	RSI View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports \|
Hall of Fame Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 20657 Location: British Columbia	#217 Posted: 2/2/2010 11:02:47 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by OLDPORT: long time HARDCORE Leaf fan here and let me tell you that from my experiences with this organization that I have every reason to believe that this team does nothing right no matter who's at the helm. Untill whoever the darn owns this team sell it, *NOTHING* will ever change they just make WAY to much MONEY to even give a garbage about winning let alone bring a Stanley Cup here.... exactly. habs and leafs are at the mercy of the faithfully blind majority that dont accept rebuilding so neither team will ever win anything. sorry but im not going nuts over one win over a canucks club that had a game stolen by halak just like the leafs beating a struggling jersey team that cant win anymore. each win means nothing!
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leafs4life	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Rookie Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 779 Location: Canada	#218 Posted: 2/2/2010 11:05:04 PM Yep bring on the cup a norris for phaneuf and a vezna for giggy! Hell were going to repeat then threepeat. You know somebody would have taken a shot at me if they had a bad night but for now. darn u all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wawakid	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Captain Joined: May 2008 Posts: 6098 Location:	#219 Posted: 2/2/2010 11:05:38 PM I'm waiting for that Leafs are a playoff team thread to get going again now. LOL
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Puck_Bunny	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports \|
Prospect Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 148 Location: Alberta	#220 Posted: 2/2/2010 11:12:41 PM Wow I think Phaneuf had it easy in Calgary, I think the fans here have a pretty high tolerance level for sub par performance. I don't think he will fair as well with the Leafs fans. The last couple of years we watched him go from a hard hitting hard working D, to a prima donna who was more focused on his superstar status then playing his heart out every night. It was really frustrating to watch. For his sake I hope he does well in TO.
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Ryancoke	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Prospect Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 68 Location:	#221 Posted: 2/4/2010 12:05:32 PM Kaberle is going to the Buffalo Sabres FOR Drew Stafford and Prospect Tyler Ennis you watch...!
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Gee_Gee	View Space \| Friends \| Playbook \|
Veteran Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 1071 Location: Canada	#222 Posted: 2/4/2010 12:32:39 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by MLBguru: What if it wasn't Kessel but rather say David Booth or Bryan Little....or even Loui Eriksson? You could make the same argument with those guys (young guys with a 30+ goal season) You wouldn't use your arguments for Kessel with those 3 guys. But in reality those 3 and others have just as good a chance as Kessel. Your right you can make the arguement with those guys too, so how does that downplay kessel in any way? Booth and Erikkson both got raises and both make 4.5 mil starting next season, and kessel makes 5.4.. except most people will agree kessel has more potential than both. Either way people throw kessel under the bus when he is right there with those guys, and is more of a true sniper Eriksson had the same amount of goals as kessel last season, but he played all 82 games to kessels 70, and this year kessel has a higher goal per game rate, and booth had 31 goals in 72 games last year, and he is 25. Im not trying to nit pick here but what exactly is your arguement? Ive said the same thing all along, that yes burke might have made a bad trade, BUT no one knows right now, and kessel is not as bad as people make him out to be. Age is relevant actually, especially when you are only 22 years old.. His ceiling is still high.. know one is labelling him as a saviour, but call a spade a spade and say that Kessel has the potential to be a top sniper, and cannot conceivably be labelled overrated at this point.
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MLBguru	View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: BetJamaica.com \|
Veteran Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 4007 Location: Ontario	#223 Posted: 2/4/2010 12:40:53 PM My argument was that if it was one of those guys instead of Kessel in that trade, all Leaf fans would be crying. But really how much better in Kessel than those guys? He's not...in fact not only do they score but a couple of those guys mentioned hit/scrap and do other intangibles.
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Flutiemaniac341	RSI View Space \| Blog \| Friends \| Playbook \| My Sportsbook: Pinnacle Sports \|
Hall of Fame Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 20657 Location: British Columbia	#224 Posted: 2/18/2010 4:26:35 PM US braintrust just traded their next 3 Olympic berths for a D-man to play the point Burke is a genious
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