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[General Discussion] Topic: Justice... the Texas way. |
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Renton |
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#51 Posted: 6/23/2012 2:55:28 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Renton:
You couldn't be more wrong. Many laws exist that protect victims rights, making your hyperbole conjecture.
Regardless of your opinion, this father was the victim of a heinous crime. As a society we hold the father to account in the care of his daughter. Jesus the rapist violated societal norms, and wronged the father beyond reason.
The father was the victim of a disturbing criminal act, that he caught happening, he was in no position to be of sound mind. For the father to have committed a crime, mens rea would need to be present, and that is clearly impossible to determine in this case, as intent is absent. He acted as any reasonable person would, and he should not be punished for doing so.
By ALL accounts, the father went above and beyond how a reasonable person would act, by feeling sorrow for Jesus possibly dying. The father is an honourable man, and doesn't deserve little shits like Scalabrine suggesting otherwise. |
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Slovak |
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#52 Posted: 6/23/2012 2:59:37 PM
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Renton |
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#53 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:07:01 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:
Aren't these types of Things called "Crimes of Passion"? Or am I thinking about something else?
Yeah the term crime of passion is often used when referring to a jolted lover who walks in on their spouse cheating, and takes action into their own hands.
I prefer not to use the term in this case, since I don't agree that a crime was even committed by the father. |
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scalabrine |
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#54 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:15:55 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Renton:
You couldn't be more wrong. Many laws exist that protect victims rights, making your hyperbole conjecture.
Regardless of your opinion, this father was the victim of a heinous crime. As a society we hold the father to account in the care of his daughter. Jesus the rapist violated societal norms, and wronged the father beyond reason.
The father was the victim of a disturbing criminal act, that he caught happening, he was in no position to be of sound mind. For the father to have committed a crime, mens rea would need to be present, and that is clearly impossible to determine in this case, as intent is absent. He acted as any reasonable person would, and he should not be punished for doing so.
I'm not sure what you know about the US since you live in Ontario. Seems like it's a million miles away based on what you are saying.
There is a heavy burden of proof that is needed to get a conviction by prosecuting lawyers in this country. That is why the criminal justice system is overloaded with defense lawyers. You need a unanimous conviction in a trial by jury if accused of a crime. A defense lawyer need only to convince a single juror that reasonable doubt exists and his client cannot be convicted of a crime.
This is not to say that the US doesn't have draconian drug laws to incarcerate.
But when it comes to capital punishment, states go to the fullest extent of the law to avoid putting people to death and only do so in the most extreme of circumstances.
Child rape is not punishable by death in this country.
That is the point.
Your last paragraph is full of contradictions. You state in the first sentence he wasn't of sound mind and in the last, that he acted as any 'reasonable' person would, that is, someone of sound mind using reason.
I'm not saying the father should be charged here. What I am saying is that all the nationalistic/raging father bravado in this thread, particularly by Slovak in his post #49 ("God Damn right..." You can almost picture him with his shirt off and a camouflage hat on with a sailor's anchor tattoo on his arm saying it), is unnecessary and moreover dangerous. We shouldn't be endorsing raging vigilante justice, even in instances of molestation. Is it necessary in certain instances? Yes. But those are deeply grey areas which people like Slovak and yourself paint as clearly evident. That is foolish and doesn't have sound legal basis. |
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Slovak |
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#55 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:23:50 PM
The father got like a Year probation for cold blooded murder.
If there was more vigilante justice, we may see this escalating crime rate begin to drop a but. The problem is that criminals have nothing to fear other than another stint in jail. If jail was a scary place like it should be, more people would be less inclined to break the law.
Hpow many times do we watch a video of some crime happening and 20 people are just standing there and watching everyone says, why didn't anyone help?
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Slovak |
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#56 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:25:46 PM
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Slovak |
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#57 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:26:42 PM
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scalabrine |
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#58 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:37:01 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Slovak:
Child rape may not be punishable by death in the courtrooms, but if it happens outside of them, no one loses any sleep over it. Hell, a few years ago a father shot some Karate instruction point blank in the head while he was handcuffed after the Karate guy molested and kidnapped his son.
The father got like a Year probation for cold blooded murder.
If there was more vigilante justice, we may see this escalating crime rate begin to drop a but. The problem is that criminals have nothing to fear other than another stint in jail. If jail was a scary place like it should be, more people would be less inclined to break the law.
Hpow many times do we watch a video of some crime happening and 20 people are just standing there and watching everyone says, why didn't anyone help?
Again, you use pure demagoguery to support a point that has no substance.
The US crime rate, particularly violent ones, is at its lowest level in decades.
Now you come on here and say prison isn't such a bad place (just laughable) and we can lower it even further with vigilante justice.
It's purely maniacal and you may find yourself locked up one day if you sit out on your porch with your shotgun on your lap looking for the next person to bring harm to your family.
Keep it up and at this pace you'll be creating threads on creative ways to torture criminals.
Your last sentence is due to the bystander effect in crowds and is a very common psychological phenomenon that would exist regardless of high/low crime rates/vigilante justice or otherwise. |
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Renton |
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#59 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:42:08 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:
I'm not sure what you know about the US since you live in Ontario. Seems like it's a million miles away based on what you are saying.
There is a heavy burden of proof that is needed to get a conviction by prosecuting lawyers in this country. That is why the criminal justice system is overloaded with defense lawyers. You need a unanimous conviction in a trial by jury if accused of a crime. A defense lawyer need only to convince a single juror that reasonable doubt exists and his client cannot be convicted of a crime.
This is not to say that the US doesn't have draconian drug laws to incarcerate.
But when it comes to capital punishment, states go to the fullest extent of the law to avoid putting people to death and only do so in the most extreme of circumstances.
Child rape is not punishable by death in this country.
That is the point.
Your last paragraph is full of contradictions. You state in the first sentence he wasn't of sound mind and in the last, that he acted as any 'reasonable' person would, that is, someone of sound mind using reason.
I'm not saying the father should be charged here. What I am saying is that all the nationalistic/raging father bravado in this thread, particularly by Slovak in his post #49 ("God Damn right..." You can almost picture him with his shirt off and a camouflage hat on with a sailor's anchor tattoo on his arm saying it), is unnecessary and moreover dangerous. We shouldn't be endorsing raging vigilante justice, even in instances of molestation. Is it necessary in certain instances? Yes. But those are deeply grey areas which people like Slovak and yourself paint as clearly evident. That is foolish and doesn't have sound legal basis.
I know plenty about the US, mainly due to saturation as many of my favourite TV shows and literature are American based. Not to mention I have quite a few relatives who are American citizens.
Both our legal systems are the EXACT same British based system of common law principles.
As for my last paragraph being full of contradictions, that would be a fallacy. Is it not fair to say that someone who is insane, yet acts normal 99.9% of the time is still insane? Of course it is, making your argument false beyond reason. |
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scalabrine |
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#60 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:48:36 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by Renton:
I know plenty about the US, mainly due to saturation as many of my favourite TV shows and literature are American based. Not to mention I have quite a few relatives who are American citizens.
Both our legal systems are the EXACT same British based system of common law principles.
As for my last paragraph being full of contradictions, that would be a fallacy. Is it not fair to say that someone who is insane, yet acts normal 99.9% of the time is still insane? Of course it is, making your argument false beyond reason.
To your last sentence, the answer is yes and that falsifies your argument, not mine.
If you are asserting he is insane at the moment of confrontation, then he didn't act 'within reason' as a reasonable person as you said in your previous post. Therefore, we shouldn't be defending insane acts but should be trying to prevent them.
All that being said, I can see how a father could lose it and beat a man to death if this happened as he said.
But, as seen in this thread, we shouldn't be figuratively standing over the body and urinating on it with our fists in the air. |
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CountNo_Account |
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#61 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:51:45 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:
Ya gotta put guys like this on display to highlight their mental incompetence for all to see.
I feel their is a reading comprehension crises among users of this site and Americans in general, and we have yet another sad example of this from this poster.
I specifically said "And who's story prevails? The same as always. The only man left alive to tell it."
Do you know what that means?
That means that when this man gives his account to the cops, no one can say otherwise at that time. The daughter certainly won't say anything different and the only other person who could refute the father's story has been beaten to death.
The attempted rape is a heinous act and the man deserves to be castrated in my opinion if he lived.
But he doesn't deserve a death sentence when only one man is the judge to issue it; one man who is also in a blind rage.
My point in posting was not to defend the offender, but to lambaste the posters who would take glee in seeing this man pumped full of lead by a firing squad, WITHOUT a trial, which they would, by default support since they are hooting and hollering now at the death without trial itself.
The point is you were trying to imply that the father killed the perpetrator by choice, that he made a judgement that the man was guilty and took it upon himself to execute him by a lethal blow to the head. I am merely stating that the mans death was incidental.
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Slovak |
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#62 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:55:50 PM
You don't think something is wrong here?
If these same criminals had to work and actually pay back society for their crimes they committed then they probably would not be so motivated to go there in the first place.
If jail were what it is supposed to be, then more people would think twice about breaking the laws.
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CountNo_Account |
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#63 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:56:40 PM QUOTE Originally Posted by scalabrine:
Liberal pussies?
Are you a grown man?
This is not about being a 'box.' This is about one man extracting revenge on another which results in death.
Our justice system protects those people and assures their rights; even the worst of offenders.
And yes it costs money. And no, the justice system does not cripple state and federal budgets so the process can and does continue. Nor is it a 'drain' on them.
If you don't like it, too bad. This is the country you live in.
Texas is another story. A state that has made it clear it would succeed under the Obama administration doesn't surprise me with any decision it makes.
I believe the word you are so desperately looking for is secede. Dumbass.
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TheFootball77 |
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#64 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:58:06 PM
a friggin Gooose---approach its cubs and parents hiss--touch them, they try to make you die
Even insects---approach its nest of eggs---get stung by all till you die
Humans---no diffferent--it's nature---a Grown man attempting to split apart your 5 year old daughters vagina ? are you friggin kidding me, she just stopped wearing diapers and you want to let her get stiches?
Her life--is so fucked up now---that jesus dieing was lucky for him--because what he deserves is to be a slave to that family---lucky because, theres some atheist who don't have peace with God, or Jesus, and now that theres one that tried to rape a 5 year old---.
Scalabrine--what would you have done if you were 23 and had your 5 year old about to be...devirginized and stiched up by 20 doctors?
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TheFootball77 |
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#65 Posted: 6/23/2012 3:59:06 PM
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Slovak |
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#66 Posted: 6/23/2012 4:38:38 PM
I know your track record here and I am fairly certain that if it was one white guy beating another white guy to death over molesting his kid, you would be nowhere to be found.
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